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Mary’s torment in final minutes: Kennedy's autopsy report raises question (about her suicide)
Ny Daily News ^ | 7/11/12 | Joanna Molloy

Posted on 07/12/2012 5:34:22 PM PDT by jimbo123

Did Mary Kennedy change her mind about hanging herself?

In shocking evidence revealed in her autopsy report, the estranged wife of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. had her fingers between her neck and the noose when she was found dead May 16 in her barn in Bedford .

Her fingers were cut and blue from the rope’s pressure, Westchester County Medical Examiner Dr. Kunjlata Ashar notes in the report.

-snip-

“The fingers from both of (Mary’s) hands were between the rope and the neck,” she wrote in the email. “The fingernails were cyanotic (blue) because of compression of the fingers, as they were between the rope and the neck.”

(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...


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1 posted on 07/12/2012 5:34:29 PM PDT by jimbo123
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To: jimbo123

What’s the Kennedy women death count up to?


2 posted on 07/12/2012 5:41:16 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: jimbo123

For just an instant I thought it was about Mary Jo Kopechne. I am sure she died a horrible death, suffocating upside down under water.

She very likely could have been saved if Kennedy had reported it immediately or made any attempt himself to rescue her.


3 posted on 07/12/2012 5:41:22 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: jimbo123

This doesn’t sound like a suicide.


4 posted on 07/12/2012 5:43:15 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds.)
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To: jimbo123

Hmmmm.......changed her mind about suicide OR tried to save her life from murder. No suicide note, no drugs, no alcohol, and an obviously desperate attempt to breathe. No mention of foul play just how sad the suicide was....lol.


5 posted on 07/12/2012 5:44:18 PM PDT by Toespi
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To: Travis McGee

Well there is Mary Moxley, Mary Jo Kopechne, The Kennedy Sister who was turned into a vegtable. This Mary who was so hurt she committed suicide.

I wonder how many we have never heard of.


6 posted on 07/12/2012 5:46:07 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: jimbo123
Just read today in the Daily News, that RFK, Jr. had her body moved to another corner of the cemetery...away from the rest of the Kennedys. Mary's siblings said they were unaware of the move until the News broke it to them:

Mary Kennedy's grave moved

After arguing with her family and refusing to let her be buried in Westchester so her four kids could visit her grave, he does this. I hope he gets what he's got coming to him.

7 posted on 07/12/2012 5:49:55 PM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway...John Wayne)
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To: jimbo123

Read my tagline.


8 posted on 07/12/2012 5:51:17 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (If there is a war on women, the Kennedys are the Spec Ops troops.)
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To: jimbo123

As an MP officer, I responded to a couple hangings. They all displayed having second thoughts after it was too late. In Korea, one (Korean) contract security guard at one of our compounds hung himself on from a metal bar between the guard shack and the compound wall. You could see his boot marks where he obviously tried (repeatedly and unsuccessfully) to scamper up and take his body weight off the ligature.


9 posted on 07/12/2012 5:51:39 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: yarddog

What about John-John Kennedy who killed himself, his wife and his sister in law by crashing his airplane into the Atlantic?


10 posted on 07/12/2012 5:55:53 PM PDT by jimbo123
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To: jimbo123

Doesn’t sound like a suicide to me, sounds like a person desperately trying to save her own life, how very sad. Remember young ladies, do not ever get mixed up with a Kennedy, they are a bad seed, no good at all.


11 posted on 07/12/2012 5:56:49 PM PDT by eagles_rest ("The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves." -G.W)
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To: Joe 6-pack

I don’t buy for a second it was a suicide. Hanging isn’t a suicide method of choice for women. At least with Marilyn Monroe, they gave her a bunch of drugs and tried to make it look like suicide. They’re getting sloppy.


12 posted on 07/12/2012 5:58:06 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: eagles_rest

John-John Kennedy killed 2 women at one time.


13 posted on 07/12/2012 6:00:00 PM PDT by jimbo123
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To: Joe 6-pack

Wasn’t there some study not too long ago which interviewed folks who survived suicide attempts by jumping off tall bridges, and they all reported having the same thoughts the very split-second their hands left the railing... that no matter the depths of despair nor the commitment to offing themselves, their thoughts at that very moment were of tremendous “what the hell am I doing” regret?


14 posted on 07/12/2012 6:03:48 PM PDT by greene66
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To: Travis McGee

Murder is an empoweremnt scheme for democrats. They’ve been defending and supporting and pushing the murder of alive unborn Americasn fro deacdes to empower their evil political capital. What’s a disposable adult female here and there to democrats?


15 posted on 07/12/2012 6:04:09 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: yarddog

Martha Moxley


16 posted on 07/12/2012 6:06:33 PM PDT by Mountain Mary (Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.)
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To: pops88

There is a plausible theory that the Kennedy’s had Marilyn killed. I personally don’t believe it but I would not totally rule it out either.


17 posted on 07/12/2012 6:07:20 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: mass55th

Yes, it’s despicable. But don’t worry, mass55th. One day the powerful will be made to answer. “But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.” - Matthew 19:30


18 posted on 07/12/2012 6:09:07 PM PDT by floralamiss
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To: Mountain Mary

You are right. If I had not had “Mary” on my mind I think I would have remembered it was Martha.


19 posted on 07/12/2012 6:09:36 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: jimbo123

I heard from an expert that self asphyxiation kills a lot of people by accident because it is unexpectedly fast. They get no warning of imminent blackout, just wide awake one instant and unconscious and strangling the next.

And if they are alone, they are dead.

Having her fingers in the noose indicates that she thought that if it hurt too much or something, she could pull the noose off her neck. But it doesn’t work that way.

The body can be very unpredictable that way as well. Sometimes boys play the “knockout game”, where one of them does heavy breathing, then takes a big gulp of air and hugs his chest or one of his friends hugs him tightly.

And annually some boys die of this. Their body is fooled into shutting down their respiration, and their friends just think they are passed out, not realizing that they are suffocating.


20 posted on 07/12/2012 6:09:36 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yarddog

“There is a plausible theory that the Kennedy’s had Marilyn killed. I personally don’t believe it but I would not totally rule it out either.”

A suicidal person doesn’t usually go out and buy potted plants the day they commit suicide. That indicates looking toward the future, not checking out. I don’t believe she committed suicide.


21 posted on 07/12/2012 6:13:50 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: P-Marlowe
This doesn’t sound like a suicide.


22 posted on 07/12/2012 6:14:05 PM PDT by ladyjane
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To: jimbo123

I don’t know if you happened to read the cover story of the June 18 Newsweak (I found mine at a train station - wouldn’t spend a red cent on this rag) which was based apparently on sources connected to patches and on his court depositions and made Mary Kennedy look like one crazy _itch.

Well, last week I think it was we learned that during the last months of her life she was reduced to having beg her children’s friends’ parents for $20 loans to buy gas and groceries!


23 posted on 07/12/2012 6:18:27 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: P-Marlowe
This doesn’t sound like a suicide.

Women very seldom hang themselves. She had no alcohol in her system. She was done in just as the Washington Madam and her appointments secretary was done in.

Kennedy was smart to have her hanged in an old barn. This way the real estate value of the house won't suffer.

24 posted on 07/12/2012 6:19:29 PM PDT by ladyjane
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To: ladyjane

Ladyjane, I have to go with my gut and I agree with you. She was making the Kennedy’s look bad by what they reduced her to. They had to take out the garbage. I spent a lot of years suicidal before becoming a Christian. I’m sorry, I can’t believe a woman would hang herself in a barn. She’d have over dosed in her bed. She’d want to be near the things dear to her, not some crappy barn.


25 posted on 07/12/2012 6:25:46 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

The closest I have ever come to complete panic was waking from a dream.

I dreamed I was in a peanut field I had walked through many times as a child. The old kind where they stacked the peanuts and hay on a pole to make what appeared to be a haystack.

Well the peanut pickers had already picked the peanuts and bailed the peanut hay but the scraps left on the ground had been set on fire. Suddenly I realized the smoke was much thicker than I had thought and I could not breathe.

I awoke not breathing and very close to passing out. I totally panicked and began to suck in air at the greatest amount I possibly could. It took maybe 2 or 3 minutes before I caught my breath. In fact I was just about to hit the 911 button when I recovered.

It has never happened again thank goodness but now nothing frightens me more than being short of breath.


26 posted on 07/12/2012 6:26:27 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: yarddog

Please, when it’s more than one evil Kennedy, it’s Kennedys, not Kennedy’s. Call up your teacher from 4th grade if you don’t believe me.


27 posted on 07/12/2012 6:36:45 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

What’s the pension plan like for grammar police?


28 posted on 07/12/2012 6:42:30 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: kabumpo

You are right. Actually I generally know these things but sometimes get lazy.

For instance I have found myself using Their, they’re and there. incorrectly tho I know perfectly well their correct usage.

Actually my weakest subject was always English Grammar but I seem to be getting better as I age, tho oddly I know it better but use it without thinking more often. Oh, I know it is not tho but although.


29 posted on 07/12/2012 6:46:09 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: pops88

Born in ‘88 and already worrying about a pension plan?


30 posted on 07/12/2012 6:50:49 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: Revolting cat!

I wasn’t born in ‘88. I was born in 1959, and as I’m aging, I occasionally mess up in the grammar area as I’m post menopausal and heading into the senior citizen phase of life. My grammar was exemplary when I was young. Now, not so much, so I hate to see other’s grammar pounced on. I went through a “grammar police” stage when I was younger, then realized it was just rude, was ashamed of myself, and quit correcting people. This is a forum, not an English class.


31 posted on 07/12/2012 6:59:00 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: pops88

About the same as the one for people who let you know that your pants have fallen down - in public - and your underwear is showing - with holes in it.


32 posted on 07/12/2012 7:04:47 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: jimbo123
Perhaps she didn’t want any marks on her neck. But one has to ask, ‘Did the individual have second thoughts?’ Once a person starts hanging and their feet are off the ground, the person can lose consciousness in 10 seconds. “It’s a quick way to die — that’s why it was widely used in executions,” Baden continued.

Michael Baden is throwing a piece of bullshit out. Executions break the neck.

Modernly the knot was placed behind the left ear.

33 posted on 07/12/2012 7:04:51 PM PDT by Focault's Pendulum (If Obama was any more thin skinned, he'd have a receptacle end: Dennis Miller)
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To: yarddog

That sounds like sleep apnea; I had it during two pregnancies.

I “cured” it by sleeping sitting up. It is a serious condition and I hope you get checked out.


34 posted on 07/12/2012 7:07:52 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: pops88

Agreed pops88, and I love good grammar; but polite courtesy exceeds it. To point out others’ errors, unless you are a loving parent or a well meaning sibling or a boss who needs some improvement or a teacher or some such is not called for.

I think the pension plan is 88% superiority complex and 12% self-satisfaction, with plenty of pride as a side benefit.


35 posted on 07/12/2012 7:10:56 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: Persevero

Yes that is exactly what my Dr. told me. He said if it happened again he would have to send me to a clinic for sleep apnea.

He also agreed that it is dangerous.

Fortunately that was around 10 years ago and it hasn’t recurred.


36 posted on 07/12/2012 7:13:52 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: pops88

Are you “Series?!” LOL!


37 posted on 07/12/2012 7:16:19 PM PDT by RoseofTexas
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To: greene66
Wasn’t there some study not too long ago which interviewed folks who survived suicide attempts by jumping off tall bridges, and they all reported having the same thoughts the very split-second their hands left the railing... that no matter the depths of despair nor the commitment to offing themselves, their thoughts at that very moment were of tremendous “what the hell am I doing” regret?

There was a posting on the anniversary of the Golden Gate Bridge and it had interviews with people who had survived jumping. One person made the observation you mentioned as he jumped over the rail.

38 posted on 07/12/2012 7:17:21 PM PDT by Oshkalaboomboom
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To: jimbo123
Let's see...the Kennedys practiced election fraud, stock market manipulation, and booze running during prohibition. The patriarch lobotomized their daughter, three of the sons were serial adulterers even though they professed to be Catholics.

One or two Kennedy sons insured Marilyn Monroe wouldn't speak, had relations with the Mob, and killed various other people that at this moment I can't prove.

Ted Kennedy lied on an exam at Harvard, killed a mistress, and did more alcohol and cocaine than most drug addicts do in a life time.

Basically, Kennedys could not swim, drive, ski, or fly an airplane without dieing, and they want to tell us how to live our lives.

Yep, liberal/socialist/democrats should be listen to.

Fu'kem, and the whole democRAT party.

5.56mm

39 posted on 07/12/2012 7:30:07 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: pops88
I went through a “grammar police” stage when I was younger, then realized it was just rude, was ashamed of myself, and quit correcting people. This is a forum, not an English class.

It's rude if it's done in public. But please, if a poster's feelings are hurt by being corrected in an anonymous forum ... well, then he or she needs to grow a thicker skin.

I don't correct anyone's grammar. But some grammatical errors are just too dumb to tolerate. The apostrophe abuse committed by writing the word "Kennedy's," for example, where a simple plural was indicated, is one such error.

The FReeper who posted the correction was performing a service. And the poster who was corrected accepted the correction gracefully. All is well.

40 posted on 07/12/2012 7:31:05 PM PDT by shhrubbery! (NIH!)
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To: RoseofTexas

Are you “Series?!” LOL!

Yes, it’s hugh and sometimes I’m a maroon.


41 posted on 07/12/2012 7:31:13 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: jimbo123

OR A MURDERER PUT THE NOOSE AROUND HER NECK?


42 posted on 07/12/2012 7:32:41 PM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yarddog

This may sound a little out of left field, but have you ever been checked out for sleep apnea?

It is “a sleep disorder characterized by abnormal pauses in breathing or instances of abnormally low breathing, during sleep. Each pause in breathing, called an apnea, can last from a few seconds to minutes, and may occur 5 to 30 times or more an hour.”

“Regardless of type, an individual with sleep apnea is rarely aware of having difficulty breathing, even upon awakening. Sleep apnea is recognized as a problem by others witnessing the individual during episodes.”

“Sleep apnea should be considered a dangerous condition, which may lead to congestive heart failure and other pulmonary disease, as well as other complications of hypoxia.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2823279/

Patients with sleep apnea can report intense nightmares on waking from apneic events. Anecdotal examples from the author’s sleep medicine practice include:

“I am buried under the sand and fighting my way to a surface that I can’t seem to reach. I wake gasping for air.”

“I’m deep under water that is getting darker and darker. I’m holding my breath, but I can’t any longer. As I breathe in water, I try to scream, but there’s no sound. I wake up in a sweat.”


43 posted on 07/12/2012 8:00:02 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: eagles_rest

I heard Michael Baden tell Geraldo this AM that it usually takes less than 30 seconds to become unconscious during a hanging when the spinal cord is not broken. There just isn’t that much time for second thoughts.


44 posted on 07/12/2012 8:01:30 PM PDT by Postman (US out of the UN. UN out of the US.)
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To: mass55th
mass55th said: "... had her body moved to another corner of the cemetery ..."

I'm no expert, but don't Catholics have some specific concerns about suicide and where a person who has committed suicide can be buried?

45 posted on 07/12/2012 8:07:56 PM PDT by William Tell
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Thanks.


46 posted on 07/12/2012 8:10:36 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: William Tell

Jews do also;something about suicides cannot be buried in consecrated ground?


47 posted on 07/12/2012 8:14:52 PM PDT by hoosierham (Freedom isn't free)
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To: yarddog

You forgot Marilyn Monroe.


48 posted on 07/12/2012 8:48:21 PM PDT by super7man
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To: pops88
What’s the pension plan like for grammar police?

Cute. The problem is that many Freepers NEED a lot of help with their spelling.

Note my tagline. I am convinced that these two words "it's" and "its" are the most misspelled words in the English language. I rarely see the spellings properly applied by people on Free Republic. Professional writers, I have noticed, almost always spell these words correctly but readers simply don't pay enough attention to learn.

49 posted on 07/12/2012 8:51:35 PM PDT by OldPossum ( "it's" is the contraction of either "it is" or "it has"; "its" is the possessive pronoun)
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To: OldPossum

“Cute. The problem is that many Freepers NEED a lot of help with their spelling.”

Why? To live up to someone’s perfect standard? This isn’t college exposition. It’s about communication, however imperfect.


50 posted on 07/12/2012 9:14:53 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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