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Syria Masses Tanks On Border With Turkey
The Times of Israel ^ | June 29, 2012

Posted on 06/29/2012 5:52:35 AM PDT by Strategy

The Assad regime has massed approximately 170 tanks near the Turkish border, according to an unconfirmed report on Friday by a general in the Free Syrian Army.

General Mustafa al-Sheikh told Reuters that the tanks are now located 30 kilometers (19 miles) from the border, northeast of Aleppo.

"They either want to move toward the border to confront Turkish troops stationed there, or they are planning to attack rebels in towns near the border," al-Sheikh said.

The move comes after Turkey on Thursday sent anti-aircraft guns, rocket launchers and other fortifications to the border, marking an escalation in hostilities between the two countries.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesofisrael.com ...


TOPICS: Israel; Russia; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: assad; iran; islam; israel; lebanon; middleeast; russia; syria; syriatanks; syriaturkeyborder; turkey; unitedkingdom; waronterror
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To: PapaBear3625

That is the Iranian plan...USA is weak and led by a traitor POTUS...Turkey will also fall if the scenario is played out...I would wonder if that occurs if Israel will attack Iran then..come Lord..as slim pickins would say YEEEEEEHAWWWW for Dr stangelove


51 posted on 06/29/2012 10:44:44 AM PDT by aces
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To: Tallguy
The NATO of today is not the NATO of the cold war. The US has ceded leadership to the gaggle of bureaucrats in Brussels, and no way will this collection of derelicts go to war for Turkey against Russia.
52 posted on 06/29/2012 11:20:32 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Strategy

170 tanks? Against Turkey (NATO Turkey?)

Best of luck with that. Though I suspect it is either for the rebels or as a screening force.


53 posted on 06/29/2012 11:33:04 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Tallguy
170 of those M60 tanks are M60T or Sabras. These have Steel laminate armour, 120mm main gun, a new suspension, and new fire control. These are thoroughly modern tanks and are far superior to most Syrian weapons. Syria does have 320 Russian T-80 tanks and 10 T-84s.
54 posted on 06/29/2012 11:34:35 AM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: rmlew

I suspect that most of those Syrian tanks are barely operable export monkey-models, and that the crews have little firsthand experience operating their vehicles.


55 posted on 06/29/2012 12:02:25 PM PDT by JerseyanExile
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To: Kevmo; Tallguy; All

Someone I know is being sent back to Afghanistan (Special Forces). They also served in Gulf War I. I have been trying to figure out what their role might be at this point in time. Any thoughts? On the wild off chance that your Kurdistan/Iran/Iraq withdrawal might actually be contemplated, might the location this person is sent to indicate possible future plans?


56 posted on 06/29/2012 12:21:47 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: Slings and Arrows

Why? Turkey is actually historically a decent ally to the United States and Israel for that matter. Why would you want them in a long war?


57 posted on 06/29/2012 1:13:03 PM PDT by hitchwolf
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To: Bon mots; dfwgator
Turkey will neither need or request our help in a fight with Syria. It will be modern Western technology against 1970-1980s Eastern Block technology and like in every other confronttion of the two over the last 40-50 years, the field will be littered with burned out hulks of the eastern block equipment.

Russia may threaten and try to get involved, but the Turks are perfectly capable of keeping them out of the Med if they want...and the few who might get in will be inconsequential. Russia would have to escalate with large scale conventional ballistic missile attacks, and I do not believe theat would make the difference either.

And Turkey is a member of NATO so that kind of escalation would make it a much bigger thing in any case which I do not believe Putin is willing to lay on the table for Assad.

58 posted on 06/29/2012 1:19:09 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Alter Kaker

Keep in mind that Erdogan and his Party of Islamist Muppets have UTTERLY DESTROYED THE TURKISH ECONOMY and the VALUE OF THE TURKISH LIRA, and have been losing favor in political polls because of it.

Erdogan basically created a huge consumption bubble in Turkey and it burst in early 2011.

So not only does Assad need an external threat to galvanize internal support, Erdogan is in the same boat looking for an external threat to maintain his political fortunes.

TO understand the collapse of Turkey’s economy, start here:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MH10Ak01.html
and here:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/NA10Ak01.html


59 posted on 06/29/2012 1:24:23 PM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: Mike Darancette

Yes, it does look like it could snowball out of control.


60 posted on 06/29/2012 1:36:26 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: edpc
Interesting.

However, I wouldn't mess with the Turks

61 posted on 06/29/2012 1:38:20 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: Bon mots

Yes I’d actually love to see Russia dust up the Turks . Maybe they could continue to Istanbul and clean out that dumb-ass mosque built on one of the formerly great wonders of the world the Hagia Sophia church and return the seat of the Eastern Orthodox Church to its rightful place. Oh and also rename the city Constantinople.


62 posted on 06/29/2012 1:46:33 PM PDT by Lent
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To: Jeff Head; ntnychik; dixiechick2000; Grampa Dave; Travis McGee
Assad is a dead man walking.

Zero is an Islamo-Communist tool.

The Arab Spring is the replacement of secular regimes with Islamist ones.

Erdogan's Turkey presents as Islamism ascendant.

Putin is punished by Saudi production for arming the regime which resists Sunni rebels.

And he can't even do that--insurance cancellation turned around a shipload of helicopters.

Zero bowed low to the Saudi king; he grinds our Constitution underfoot in the manner Ayers used on our flag.

This is not time for popcorn.

This is time to turn off the Kardashian soma and snap:

The action is not in the field--the action is in the Muslim Oval Office.


63 posted on 06/29/2012 1:47:30 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
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To: JerseyHighlander
Keep in mind that Erdogan and his Party of Islamist Muppets have UTTERLY DESTROYED THE TURKISH ECONOMY and the VALUE OF THE TURKISH LIRA, and have been losing favor in political polls because of it.

Then why did Moody's raise Turkey's sovereign credit rating this week? Your statements are not consistent with the facts.

Erdogan basically created a huge consumption bubble in Turkey and it burst in early 2011.

Sure the economy is growing slower than it was, but Turkey's economy still is growing at the fastest rate in Europe. Burst bubble? Don't see any sign of it. Why does Turkey still have a sovereign debt that is only 40% of GDP? By no means am I suggested that a rapidly growing economy will grow rapidly forever, but I find it hard to believe that anybody who is paying attention to Turkey would say its economy is anything other than a huge success.

64 posted on 06/29/2012 2:27:05 PM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: hinckley buzzard

>> and no way will this collection of derelicts go to war for Turkey against Russia.

First time I will agree with the opinion of what I picture to be an ornery old cuss at his keyboard.

But there will be no fighting war for NATO. This IS the war. Jr is bankrupt and on his way out. If this is played patiently, Russia will lose a client AND her base on the warm water.


65 posted on 06/29/2012 2:44:48 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice)
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To: Alter Kaker

Note that Erdogan has been alternatively threatening Israel, Greece, Cyprus, Georgia, and now Syria in the last 9 months as he is flailing about trying to deflect the internal troubles in Turkey.

The private economy of Turkey is really screwed up. All growth in last 6 years was in non-durable goods, the imbalance of too many imports, no prospects of balancing the economic activity by exporting durable goods, and a labor base where 75% of the population only has a 8th grade education.

This uneducated populace is Erdogan’s political base, and they are getting hit the hardest as the bubble bursts. The educated metropolitan population that is much more classically liberal and secular (and Erdogan’s politlca opposition) are doing quite well as the cost of labor is falling and the rentier classes are unaffected by intra-Lira interest and rent wealth transfers.

Moody’s raised the rating of Turkey’s Federal debt because the debt is denominated in depreciating Lira.
The Central Bank of Turkey is dropping Lira from Helicopters right now to try to build inflation in a country where 70%+ of the population can not keep up with the bubble’s inflation rate.

http://www.meforum.org/3134/turkey-economic-miracle


66 posted on 06/29/2012 2:53:28 PM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: hitchwolf

Historically, yes. Recently, no. Their government is Islamist and getting worse; they have severed military cooperation with Israel;they are trying to align with Iran, and Erdogen has expressed a clear interest in an expansionist foreign policy. The Turkey of Attaturk is dead.


67 posted on 06/29/2012 3:26:23 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks Strategy.
68 posted on 06/29/2012 4:06:40 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: JerseyHighlander

Excellent post!


69 posted on 06/29/2012 4:22:12 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: JerseyHighlander
I believe that you write what you write sincerely, but I am very confused by your statements which seem to have no basis in reality.

1. Claim: Turkey's currency is devalued.
FACT: The Turkish Lira has increased in value relative to the Euro over the last year, which is the important metric as the Euro Zone is by far Turkey's largest trading partner.

2. Claim: Turkey's credit rating is only increasing because the value of the Lira is decreasing.
FACT: Aside from the fact that the Lira isn't dropping relative to the Euro, this makes no sense. Have you ever heard of a credit rating being increased because the value of the currency is falling? I haven't.

3. Claim: You claim that Turkey is "threatening Israel, Greece, Cyprus, Georgia and now Syria."
FACT: Now I didn't really want to get down in the weeds on this, as I'm certainly not Turkish, not Muslim and don't generally agree with Erdogan on a whole lot, least of all his foreign policy, but this is ludicrous. Unless your definition of "threaten" is a heck of a lot different from the Merriam Webster definition, I have no idea what you're talking about.

70 posted on 06/29/2012 4:57:55 PM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: fortheDeclaration
Why all the flexing?

Syria says it is a response to Turkey moving tanks to the Syrian border. Syrian tanks are there to meet any Turkey invasion. Saudi Arabia has also moved troops to its border with Jordan and Iraq. The Saudis expect an attack from Iraqi Shiites. The whole place is about to blow up thanks to Obama/Clinton and the US States of Idiots Department.

71 posted on 06/29/2012 5:49:32 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: Strategy
That border, by the way, is disputed by Syria.

In Ottoman times, Hatay was part of the Vilayet of Aleppo in Ottoman Syria. After World War I, Hatay (then known as Alexandretta) became part of the French Mandate of Syria. Unlike other regions historically[vague] belonging to Syrian provinces (such as Aintab, Kilis and Urfa)[citation needed], Alexandretta was confirmed as Syrian territory in the Treaty of Lausanne agreed upon by Kemal Atatürk; although it was granted a special autonomous status because it contained a large Turkish minority. However, culminating a series of border disputes with France-mandated Syria, Atatürk obtained in 1937 an agreement with France recognizing Alexandretta as an independent state, and in 1939 this state, called the Republic of Hatay, was annexed to Turkey as the 63rd Turkish province following a referendum. Syria bitterly disputed both the separation of Alexandretta and its subsequent annexation to Turkey. Syria maintains that the separation of Alexandretta violated France's mandatory responsibility to maintain the unity of Syrian lands (article 4 of the mandate charter). It also disputes the results of the referendum held in the province because, according to a League of Nations commission that registered voters in Alexandretta in 1938, Turkish voters in the province represented no more than 46% of the population.[9] Syria continues to consider Hatay part of its territory, and shows it as such on its maps.[10][11] However, Turkey and Syria have strengthened their ties and opened the border between the two countries.

Syrians hold the view that this land was illegally ceded to Turkey by France, the mandatory occupying power of Syria in the late 1930s. Syria still considers it an integral part of its own territory. Syrians call this land Liwa' aliskenderun (Arabic: لواء الاسكندرون‎) rather than the Turkish name of Hatay. Official Syrian maps still show Hatay as part of Syria.[10][11]

Hatay


72 posted on 06/29/2012 6:29:36 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex

So? I mean, the french? the syrians? I dont think any of that matters.


73 posted on 06/29/2012 6:37:19 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice)
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To: a_Turk

Sure it matters. If Turkey had the habit of staying in its own borders a lot of lives would have been spared.


74 posted on 06/29/2012 6:42:32 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: gleeaikin

I doubt my plan is being contemplated. If a SpecFor guy is being sent to Afghanistan, it’s very likely because there is some wet work to be done in Afghanistan. It would be different if you knew of a HUNDRED guys being sent to some easternmost part of Afghanistan, then there is more of a likelihood for such a plan.


75 posted on 06/29/2012 6:51:57 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: annalex

No, it means nothing. And I’m willing to bet that the country you’re from has killed ridiculous multitudes compared to us and then in pursuit of trade..


76 posted on 06/29/2012 6:53:58 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice)
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To: fortheDeclaration

That’s the question isn’t it?

Turkey probably doesn’t want to actually invade Syria, but they know that by moving troops to the border, Syria must respond in kind, taking pressure off the rebels.

Are they doing it because Turkey really wants the hard line islamists to take power in Syria? Or are they doing it just to kick a longtime rival when they are down, and not caring much about the possible long term consequences? Or are they doing it at the behest of some other entity that doesn’t want to get involved directly?


77 posted on 06/29/2012 7:25:27 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Strategy
The Assad regime has massed approximately 170 tanks near the Turkish border.......the tanks are now located 30 kilometers (19 miles) from the border, northeast of Aleppo. "They either want to move toward the border to confront Turkish troops stationed there, or they are planning to attack rebels in towns near the border," al-Sheikh said.

The move comes after Turkey on Thursday sent anti-aircraft guns, rocket launchers and other fortifications to the border, marking an escalation in hostilities between the two countries.

Muslims killing other muslims! Can't get any better than that. Gotta run and pick up some more popcorn.

78 posted on 06/29/2012 7:29:23 PM PDT by rcrngroup
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To: Alter Kaker

Does Turkey have any claim to Syrian lands?


79 posted on 06/30/2012 4:17:09 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: Strategy

I am always amazed at what poor generalship is shown by Arab military. Almost anyone can do better.

Recall that after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, he placed most of his defenses along the shore of Kuwait and directly facing Saudia Arabia. Anyone looking at a map could see where the opportunity was for the allies: a sweep through empty deserts on our left (to the west), cutting between Kuwait and the Iraqi supply-lines, which also included water pipes to supply the Iragi troops. Many Iraqis surrended through thirst and dehydration, and hunger.

If even I could see this ahead of time (and I have NO practical military experience — only an amateur’s passing interest in history!), then why could Saddam not see it?

Now to Syria: they have supposedly “concentrated” their tanks on the Turkish border, defensively. Uh-huh! Every time you concentrate such forces, you inevitably do two things: you make a very rich target; and you deplete defenses elsewhere. One of both makes big opportunity for your opponents, in this case the Turks.

This also gives the Turks a choice among good alternatives. They can clobber the assembled tanks from the air, which will be easy and fun for their well equipped air force. Or, if they wish a ground campaign, they can sweep around the concentration in a Kesselschlacht, cutting off the concentrated Assad forces, and leaving them isolated for as long as they like, running out of supplies, and being picked at profitably by the Turks and rebels.

Or, the Turks can just let the Syrian concentration sit there, concentrated away from other areas, which might itself be a win.

We will see. Wars are rather fun to watch, if you are not actually in one.


80 posted on 06/30/2012 6:37:35 AM PDT by docbnj
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To: nikos1121
Does Turkey have any claim to Syrian lands?

No, they gave those up when they gave up the Ottoman Empire. Syria has had claims to an area occupied by Turkey 70 years ago, but the Syrian government formerly renounced those a few years ago.

Syria has little that Turkey wants - Turkey on the other hand has money, water, electric power, etc.

81 posted on 06/30/2012 8:03:43 AM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: Strategy; ASA Vet; BIGLOOK; PapaBear3625

Any updates re the upcoming scrap metal post fire sale in Syria?


82 posted on 06/30/2012 8:48:31 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS DESTROYING AMERICA-LOOK AT WHAT IT DID TO THE WHITE HOUSE!)
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To: a_Turk

Bet what you want: Turkey has nothing to win from provocations with its neighbors given the history of Turkey and arbitrary character of Turkey’s borders.

Return Constantinople, Smyrna, and Mt. Ararat where they belong, and then we’ll do some betting.


83 posted on 06/30/2012 9:23:34 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Slings and Arrows
Muslim au Muslim. Where is the problem here? You're thinking a Muslim Brotherhood government is worse than a traditional Muslim government? The traditional government works with America's best interests at heart? Ludicrous. Not much different...one indulges themselves with the money the US gives them and the other likes to bugger little boys... chances are the traditonal ones are just using the money the US gives them to buy boys to bugger instead of just 'conscripting' them like the Brotherhood does....regardless, our pResident approves, either way.
84 posted on 06/30/2012 12:32:20 PM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Gaffer

I think you meant to reply to the person who replied to me.


85 posted on 06/30/2012 12:35:53 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: Gaffer

No. It was you. The “you” I used was for the casual reader who might fret over a fracas between Muslims....as far as I am concerned they can butcher each other....sorry if you think I thought you cared about it - your post didn’t seem to indicate you did.


86 posted on 06/30/2012 12:39:25 PM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Slings and Arrows
Let them fight. Long and hard.

Ideally they should both lose. There was a relative calm in the Mideast when Iran and Iraq were at each others' throats.

87 posted on 06/30/2012 12:40:13 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Cyber Liberty
There was a relative calm in the Mideast when Iran and Iraq were at each others' throats.

----------------------------

Well, yeah, if you remove Lebanon from the equation...a Civil War, a War with Israel and the Beruit Bombing...

88 posted on 06/30/2012 12:54:49 PM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Cyber Liberty
...and an uprising in Syria that claimed 40,000 lives...and a revolt in Egypt...

yep...the 80s were a day at the beach in the ME.

89 posted on 06/30/2012 1:00:25 PM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

True. For better or worse, though, I think the Turks will pound the Syrians like cheap veal.


90 posted on 06/30/2012 1:01:59 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: wtc911

Compared to today, as bad as you make things out to be, that’s relative calm.

But, it used to be a lot better...back when Beirut was a vacation destination. Syria deserves to be destroyed just based on what they did to Lebanon. What Syrians do to Syrians, however, is a lot lower on my scale of injustice.


91 posted on 06/30/2012 1:06:52 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Slings and Arrows

I do too. Which is probably why I think the tanks are not there to harass Turkey as much as to blow up their own people trying to flee to Turkey.


92 posted on 06/30/2012 1:09:06 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Grampa Dave; ASA Vet
Got your little civil war going on in Syria, got our new NATO member in Turkey and then there's always Israel, Hezbola, the Muslim Brotherhood in N.Africa, the Russians and the PRC in Africa and a worthless UN. Also a worthless Dept of Defense at this time at home.

This is the perfect menagerie for a world war......lions, tigers and bears; and dragons and snakes and bloodsucking ticks thrown in.

Once we counted great wars as 100 Years, I, II, Cold and then throw in all the little skirmishes, border wars, colonial wars and of course political wars too we've a new perspective. When history is finally recorded, some lone historian will write this as the Perpetual War on Earth.

Gotta love it....keeps us in business and business is good.

Now enough of that. What's the price a gallon of gas going to be next week?
93 posted on 06/30/2012 1:09:23 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (One out of three ain't good enough, Make November work.)
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BTW, my money is on Turkey


94 posted on 06/30/2012 1:11:30 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (One out of three ain't good enough, Make November work.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

Sounds reasonable. I wonder if the Syrian rebels are in communication with the Turks?


95 posted on 06/30/2012 1:14:35 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: BIGLOOK

I think there will be a push on your bet. I just don’t see Syria and Turkey engaging.


96 posted on 06/30/2012 1:18:07 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Slings and Arrows

Sure. Like that scene in Borat when they’re fighting over the nude pics.


97 posted on 06/30/2012 3:52:17 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Eleutheria5

I think a war wound be less disturbing


98 posted on 06/30/2012 6:15:39 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: Slings and Arrows

Also more entertaining. Popcorn time. Wonder whom the MSM will wrongly choose to hero-worship.


99 posted on 07/01/2012 12:27:50 AM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Doe Eyes
when did the Turks ask for any help...

Turkey will ask NATO to invoke Article 5 of the Washington Treaty...

100 posted on 07/01/2012 2:51:45 AM PDT by Bon mots ("When seconds count, the police are just minutes away...")
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