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Will you buy health insurance? Or will you not comply?

Posted on 06/28/2012 12:15:47 PM PDT by Halfmanhalfamazing

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To: ohiobushman

This family won’t obey either and support baby killers. I will never knowingly support that. If I have to be a martyr and go to jail, fine. I’ve got eternity to think about. At least in jail I’ll get “3 hots and a cot,” as well as free health care. When I was young and the hospital I worked for wanted 100% compliance with giving to the United Way, I wouldn’t do that either for the same reason. Considering I worked in NICU, I don’t think I was alone in non-compliance. I think the government is going to have a major headache trying to enforce commie care.


51 posted on 06/28/2012 12:47:07 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

One thing that is 100% certain to lower health costs overall and that is NO INSURANCE period.

As long as we keep subsidizing what doctors, hospitals, labs, farm-A-Sue-dickels charge, there are no market forces to keep costs in check.

Not only do the subsidies keep the costs artificially high, the cost of administering the insurance plans, money paid to salesmen/saleswomen and commissions to brokers, and the huge salaries paid to the CEOs have to be paid by somebody and that somebody is the policy holder regardless if their employer “pays for it”. Dirty secret, your free or reduced policy from your employer is part of your salary. It is part of the cost of hiring you.

A much better case can be made for government food as you will die without food but you certainly can live without healthcare. Maybe not as well or as long but you can live without it. Hell doctors/hospitals don’t even guarantee their work even though they claim to be highly trained professionals.

Even though my wife works for a large insurance company, I always tell the doctor, lab, diagnostic operation that I don’t have coverage and my cost is always lower than what is normal and customary rate paid.

What we do need is a bare minimum out of pocket per year co-pay then a fixed percentage of income for charges beyond co-pay so that the customer/patient is always affected somewhat by their use of the medical system but not enough to put them into bankruptcy.

Doctors/lawyers and government are depending on milking us just like a dairy cow. They will keep us alive as long as they can keep milking us to keep them and their ruling elite friends in a comfortable life style. Once we no longer produce milk they want the death panels to do exactly what George Bernard Shaw wanted and that was we had to justify our existence and if we did not....worm chow.


52 posted on 06/28/2012 12:47:19 PM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: pops88

For now, Christian healthcare sharing organizations “qualify” as insurance under 0bamacare.

http://www.samaritanministries.org/

Probably not for long, though. This would be anti-thetical to their anti-Christian worldview. They just haven’t been able to figure out how to let the Muslims not pay and make the Christians pay.


53 posted on 06/28/2012 12:48:38 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: jeffc

Companies would love to get out of the business of providing health care for their employees.

One of the reasons outsourcing is so popular, you don’t have to pay for their healthcare.


54 posted on 06/28/2012 12:49:11 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: RetiredArmy
Post #24

Is everyone aware there is an 80 thousand man militia embedded in this bill as well as 16 thou. IRS agents ?

55 posted on 06/28/2012 12:51:06 PM PDT by Lionheartusa1 (-: Socialism is the equal distribution of misery :-)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

Can you get an exemption if you are a Muslim?...Some have told me so. Allah Akbar!


56 posted on 06/28/2012 1:00:06 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing
I WILL NOT COMPLY.

5.56mm

57 posted on 06/28/2012 1:01:15 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

I refuse.

I’ll go to jail.

Civil Disobedience.

Fill the prisons with millions of conscentious objectors, and overwhelm the system.

Crash and burn, USA, you can’t enslave the people without consequences.


58 posted on 06/28/2012 1:02:56 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Individual Liberty, R.I.P, 6/28/2012)
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To: pops88
This family won’t obey either and support baby killers.

The private insurance you are on and the premiums you pay already covers abortions............

59 posted on 06/28/2012 1:04:09 PM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

I had ruled out moving myself and my company to some offshore location, but I’ll re-evaluate that. If I stay in the US then, if I’m carrying too many parasites on my back I’ll just “go Galt”... and maybe become a parasite myself.


60 posted on 06/28/2012 1:05:52 PM PDT by The Duke
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

I say, Obama can eat shit and die.


61 posted on 06/28/2012 1:09:29 PM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? You are a socialist idiot with no rational argument.)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

Several Freepers have hit on the core of the problem. Once government got involved in education, the cost went up by hundreds of percent. When government got involved in healthcare, the cost went up by hundreds of percent. In both cases they passed laws to fix the problem they created.


62 posted on 06/28/2012 1:09:41 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (There's a pill for just about everything ... except stupid!)
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To: MrB

“For now, Christian healthcare sharing organizations “qualify” as insurance under 0bamacare.

http://www.samaritanministries.org/";

Wow! Thank you so much for sharing that.


63 posted on 06/28/2012 1:12:11 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: kevao

http://mychristiancare.org/default.aspx

http://www.chministries.org/

http://www.samaritanministries.org/

These are my options and I am opting out of obamacare


64 posted on 06/28/2012 1:12:24 PM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: Borax Queen
"“MOST Americans” will have to buy it. What happened to “ALL Americans”? This must be b/c all the special groups, e.g. Muslims and the lazy, will be exempt. "

I think Unions and peelozi's district are exempt.

65 posted on 06/28/2012 1:12:24 PM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: RetiredArmy
Rush said that IRS has hired 16,000 new agents to primarily come after people who do not buy.

"Come after" doesn't imply simply collecting the fine. It implies collect the tax and then audit the last five years of your returns.

How far this nation has fallen in so short a time. There is a sliver of me that envies the large part of our population who are blissfully aware of all of this, because they are focused on Dancing with the Trash Pickers or whatever is on cable television tonight, which celebrity was caught naked or some sports team competing for a shiny trophy. Instead, I have this subtle, consistent nausea mixed with rage as I wonder how many years my life will be shortened because of this Obamacare monstrosity (I have a latent condition that will make me a prime candidate for death panel rejection).
66 posted on 06/28/2012 1:16:04 PM PDT by LostInBayport (When there are more people riding in the cart than there are pulling it, the cart stops moving...)
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To: ohiobushman

don’t sugar coat it, tell me how you really feel.


67 posted on 06/28/2012 1:16:53 PM PDT by brivette
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To: MrB

“They’ll get while the gettin’s good”

That is my reading as well. Capitalism, actual free enterprise, is all but dead. Cronies and regulators have legislated it out of existence.


68 posted on 06/28/2012 1:17:41 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing
I really don't know/understand what will happen re: "buying health insurance" after 2014. My husband and I are not in the usual employment situation with health care benefits - we have a Health Savings Account (via United Healthcare) that we have just gotten used to, and we like it. ObamaCare is engineered to end all HSAs in 2014, which sucks.

As I know the ultimate goal of ObamaCare is to get everyone in the country in a single-payer system, I have no idea what we'll do after 2014, assuming the GOP can't repeal ObamaCare.

69 posted on 06/28/2012 1:21:25 PM PDT by nutmeg (I'm with Sarah Palin: Anybody But Obama 2012)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

We have zero intention of signing up for Deathcare. Since we are self employed and have not seen a tax refund in 20 years the IRS is going to have a hard row to hoe collecting from us. Our advice to them will be to put a lien on our house since its now worth less than we owe.


70 posted on 06/28/2012 1:22:43 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Borax Queen
I already started hearing on the corporate-government news channels how “MOST Americans” will have to buy it. What happened to “ALL Americans”? This must be b/c all the special groups, e.g. Muslims and the lazy, will be exempt.

OK, I'll take a shot at this, as I understand it. The new rule is that you have to A)have insurance OR B)pay the penalty tax.

So, if you meet condition "A" there is no tax (penalty) for you. Thus people with insurance, be it private, employer provided, or Medicare, TriCare or Medicaid will not pay the tax.

If you do not have health insurance you either have to get it, or pay the tax.

But what if I can't afford it, you ask?

Well they have tried to "help" with that by doing three things.

First they have expanded Medicaid so it covers more people. So maybe now you can get Medicaid. (Only, Roberts struck down the part of Obamacare that made the States agree to this, so many may choose not to add people to their Medicaid rolls.)

Also, Medicaid is weird. Your basic single, 40 year old, unemployed person doesn't qualify for Medicaid - you need some sparklie like dependent children. I don' think the law changes this, so there will still be some (fewer, but some) people who don't qualify for Medicaid despite being poor.

The second mechanism to help the uninsured is tax credits to buy insurance from one of the new pools. These are available to something like 200% of the poverty level, for anyone who qualifies based on income. (No special dependency required).

The third way the government "helps" some people is by having an exclusion for really poor people. They just don't have to buy insurance, and they are excluded from the tax. They get to still be poor and uninsured. Mostly one would think that true poor would qualify for Medicaid. But as explained, many don't.

But lets say you have a job, it doesn't pay real well but it pays enough that you aren't a welfare case. And at the end of the day, therefore, you can't get on Medicaid. And you certainly don't qualify for the dirt-poor exemption. And further suppose that even with the low-income credit you can't afford the insurance you are required to have. At that point you move to category "B". You owe the tax (penalty) for not being insured.

So when you say this: "Meanwhile, the suckers like us who still have private sector jobs, will be unable to afford private insurance on top of this new “tax.” You are slightly wrong. If you have insurance you won't have to pay the new tax (penalty). Of course you'll have to pay all the other new taxes that will be needed to do things like: expand medicaid to cover millions of new borderline poor, provide subsidies for the purchase of insurance to those in the category just above them, etc. But we don't know what those are yet, exactly.

71 posted on 06/28/2012 1:23:36 PM PDT by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

Those fortunate to have good insurance like me...will lose that good coverage. Probably will be forced on ObamaCare....will not purchase if I have to do it on my own

ObamaCare will be unenforceable....we have laws for requiring auto insurance....but large numbers do not have it. Rarely enforced until after an accident or other infraction


72 posted on 06/28/2012 1:24:06 PM PDT by SeminoleCounty (When I said "close the borders", I did not mean the bookstore chain)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

I will not submit to tyranny


73 posted on 06/28/2012 1:24:06 PM PDT by QualityMan (Don't Tread on Me)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

It’s either pay the $700 a month or go to jail for a year with $25,000 in fines. I never can tell if it is 2012 in America or 1955 in the Soviet Union.


74 posted on 06/28/2012 1:24:12 PM PDT by joelackey92
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

I will not comply

MolonLabe


75 posted on 06/28/2012 1:27:22 PM PDT by QualityMan (Don't Tread on Me)
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To: moovova
That's right... and per today's ruling Obozo is authorized to send out his brown-shirted army of IRS "agents" to hound and chase US citizens down until they/you comply with DeathCare and pay "your fair share".

I don't even recognize this country anymore... God help us all.

76 posted on 06/28/2012 1:30:30 PM PDT by nutmeg (I'm with Sarah Palin: Anybody But Obama 2012)
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To: Lionheartusa1

I suspect they would face the same problem foreseen by Yamamoto.


77 posted on 06/28/2012 1:31:24 PM PDT by Trod Upon (Obama: Making the Carter malaise look good. Misery Index in 3...2...1)
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To: Jack Black

Aren’t they planning to tax our employers and us for providing/having insurance? I believe that they are.

I should have, however, worded that differently. I will be unable to afford GOOD, private insurance, on top of whatever I have left from the employer/or when they drop me, DeathCare.

The elites will continue to have the world’s finest care, and continue to be able to afford whatever fees, taxes, etc. PLUS be enrolled in quality care. Those of us in the middle class, working for the private sector, will be given the death pill if we get sick.


78 posted on 06/28/2012 1:38:01 PM PDT by Borax Queen
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To: jeffc
We have insurance now but if they drop it we will not be able to afford it so we would have to pay the penalty and not be insured. According to the calculator in the WaPost
our penalty would be $1398.00 and because our salary we are not eligible for any assistance. I guess if I want health care I would have to not pay my mortgage and get help with that and quit my job and go on welfare then I can have health care. F he G
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/what-health-bill-means-for-you/#
79 posted on 06/28/2012 1:38:39 PM PDT by funfan
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To: nutmeg
ObamaCare is engineered to end all HSAs in 2014, which sucks.

No it doesn't...only the real high deductible ones like $10,000. Regular, reasonable deductible HSA's with smaller deductibles $2500-3500-4500 will still be sold by the insurance co's and BC/BS said they will become more popular than ever and are ramping up marketing of them.

80 posted on 06/28/2012 1:41:38 PM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
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To: Lionheartusa1
Is everyone aware there is an 80 thousand man militia embedded in this bill as well as 16 thou. IRS agents ?

Yup. Rush referred to that as "Obama's domestic army" which is now authorized (per today's ruling) to hound and chase down American citizens until they comply and pay their "fair share" toward ObamaCare.

Did you ever think you'd see this in the United States of America??

Our only choice now is to elect a Republican (conservative would be better) President, House and Senate this November. And hope they will fulfill their promise of repealing this monstrosity.

81 posted on 06/28/2012 1:47:49 PM PDT by nutmeg (I'm with Sarah Palin: Anybody But Obama 2012)
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To: nutmeg

Amen .......

I can not believe I am living in the country I was born in ,,, 8/18/1945 . Vietnam vet ,,,, 1966-67 ,,, the Herd , 173rd Abn.


82 posted on 06/28/2012 2:00:21 PM PDT by Lionheartusa1 (-: Socialism is the equal distribution of misery :-)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing; All
A simple way to force compliance would be to control the food. It wouldn't be no insurance/no food but more like a 10-15% penalty added to your grocery bill if you were unable to produce a govt. approved proof of insurance, rather like when you have to produce proof of insurance during a traffic stop. Of course it would create an instant black market and give the 80k militia Lionheartusa spoke about in post #55 something to do. The DHS didn't buy those millions of .40cal for no reason. As a side note look up some of the older articles showing the military training for civil unrest. The pretend protesters signs usually said things like “we need food” or words to that effect
83 posted on 06/28/2012 2:06:43 PM PDT by Polynikes (Hakkaa Palle)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

Actually, the best plan is not to buy insurance until you get sick. Then buy it. They can’t deny coverage because you are sick.

If 25% of Americans did that, it would break the bank on Obamacare. The bill relies on a high level of compliance with the mandate to be even laughably solvent. And it would save each of us a lot of money because the penalty (er tax) is a lot less than the cost of insurance.

It’s a form of civil disobedience that would actually work if enough people did it.

Also, if we refused to pay the taxes on top of buying in and out of insurance depending on health, the IRS is not allowed to jail us or levy on us for the failure. So it’s a double whammy for finances.


84 posted on 06/28/2012 2:10:39 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: Wurlitzer

“Even though my wife works for a large insurance company, I always tell the doctor, lab, diagnostic operation that I don’t have coverage and my cost is always lower than what is normal and customary rate paid.”

Then your doctors are playing with fire. Do you know the penalties they will pay if they get caught charging a lower price for cash customers. The only Doctors who can do this are those who accept NO insurance and NO Medicare or Medicaid.


85 posted on 06/28/2012 2:14:41 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

I WILL NOT COMPLY!!!

Arrest me. Jail me at $80K a year. Collapse the system.

I’m leaving. Australia or New Zealand here I come. Hell, I’ll even look at Canada, they are getting rid of their socialized medicine.


86 posted on 06/28/2012 2:16:52 PM PDT by Fledermaus (Democrats are dangerous and evil. Republicans are just useless and useful idiots.)
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To: ModelBreaker
Actually, the best plan is not to buy insurance until you get sick.

It will probably end up like medicare part D. If you don't take it out when you turn 65, you will pay a accruing 1% penalty for each month..so if you waited for 8 months after age 65 you will be charged 8% higher premiums.

I bet this will eventually have the same provision.

87 posted on 06/28/2012 2:18:21 PM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
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To: EyeGuy

YES! Collapse the system!


88 posted on 06/28/2012 2:19:06 PM PDT by Fledermaus (Democrats are dangerous and evil. Republicans are just useless and useful idiots.)
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To: ModelBreaker
Actually, the best plan is not to buy insurance until you get sick. Then buy it. They can’t deny coverage because you are sick.

If 25% of Americans did that, it would break the bank on Obamacare. The bill relies on a high level of compliance with the mandate to be even laughably solvent. And it would save each of us a lot of money because the penalty (er tax) is a lot less than the cost of insurance.

It’s a form of civil disobedience that would actually work if enough people did it.

Take the difference between the cost of insurance and the cost of the penalty/tax and buy guns & ammo. That'll not only help to crash the system, but the purchases will make the Obots $hit bricks.

89 posted on 06/28/2012 2:46:40 PM PDT by Ancesthntr (Bibi to Odumbo: Its not going to happen.)
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To: ModelBreaker

“Then your doctors are playing with fire. Do you know the penalties they will pay if they get caught charging a lower price for cash customers. The only Doctors who can do this are those who accept NO insurance and NO Medicare or Medicaid.”


Absolutely false. This is done every day without fear (before commie care).


90 posted on 06/28/2012 2:47:21 PM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: Halfmanhalfamazing

The “not comply” thing, while attractive, is pointless for most.

Most people will have health insurance. They already do, and political intrigue aside will have it.
All health insurance policies will comply as required. If they don’t, the business suffers to a degree worth complying instead.
Some of us NEED health insurance. Giving it up on principle is not a financially feasible option.

To those who CAN swing it, who can afford both in risk and in costs to push back and fight the issue, many kudos and thanks. To varying degrees, most of us are in the “can’t go there” category.


91 posted on 06/28/2012 2:50:43 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: Wurlitzer
Absolutely false. This is done every day without fear (before commie care).

You are wrong and "absolutely" incorrect. If you accept Medicare or Medicaid you can not accept different cash rates. If a Doctor's visit is $70 that is what you bill both. The government will pay way less and there is nothing they can do about it. The cash payer, however will pay the full amount based on the law.
92 posted on 06/28/2012 2:51:12 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
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To: snowrip

“Like”


93 posted on 06/28/2012 3:00:26 PM PDT by jersey117
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To: PA Engineer

“”If you accept Medicare or Medicaid you can not accept different cash rates””

Are you talking pre or post USSC decision?


94 posted on 06/28/2012 4:21:49 PM PDT by Thank You Rush
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To: muawiyah

Thank you for your post...maybe the numbers are on our side.


95 posted on 06/28/2012 5:03:10 PM PDT by moovova (Arrogance is believing that God needs an assistant (us).)
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To: Wurlitzer
Let's say your annual operating costs are $1,000,000,000 and if you hire CEO BobX he'll reduce your costs to $900,000,000. If you hire CEO LindaY, she'll reduce your costs to $950,000,000.

So, is BobX's salary of $15,000,000 a deal compared to LindaY's salary of $1,000,000?

Note if you hand over your operation to a government agency, the annual operating costs for your operation will double to $2,000,000,000 yet your new Office Director (a substitute for the CEO) will be paid about $175,000 per annum.

96 posted on 06/28/2012 5:42:42 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: trailhkr1

Schemes like that will not be done because we are going to get rid of this abomination.


97 posted on 06/28/2012 5:45:28 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: dennisw
The Moslems have it down to a science ~ beyond convenience. To become a Moslem you go to a mosque, find the president of the congregation, he'll ask you to sign your name next to your thumb print.

You go on about your business ~ and if you change your phone number you'll never see them again BUT you'll have your exemption from ObamaKKKare.

98 posted on 06/28/2012 5:52:23 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Jack Black

Try flipping that around: everyone is subject to the ~$3000 tax, and may get a ~$3000 deduction for meeting certain qualified conditions (have insurance, are poor below a certain level, enjoy gov’t-favored religion status, etc.).
That way it looks a lot like most other standard tax deductions; the only novel/new bit is starting every income tax form at a $3000 liability instead of assuming $0.


99 posted on 06/30/2012 8:48:09 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: RetiredArmy
Actually, the way I understand it is, even if I have insurance, I could come up with something that the government guru's who will decide if I get treatment or not could say NO, no treatment, let him die. That is going to happen to old folks with problems that the government death panels will decide that you can just die. All you have to do is look at England. You get injured, need surgery. Oh, sorry, we have no funds to fix your torn up knee. Maybe next year or the year after. Here, have a set of crutches.

Yes, and if there's a good way to fix you up permanently and a cheap way to keep you productive for a little while, you're getting the cheap way.

Who wants to pay for that? I have band-aides at home.

100 posted on 06/30/2012 8:56:22 AM PDT by SCalGal (Friends don't let friends donate to H$U$ or PETA.)
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