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How the Left Moved into Religion
The American Thinker ^ | March 11, 2012 | Mary Nicholas

Posted on 03/11/2012 12:04:25 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife

It is the year of the "ethics of energy," according to the National Council of Churches (NCC).....

.........Formerly overt supporters of communism, the NCC recast itself as a leader of the 'religious left.'" While the U.S. was fighting the Cold War, the NCC funded communist regimes in.... The NCC considers the U.S. "an oppressor, both at home and abroad"....

... Candidates should feel comfortable explaining their religious convictions to voters." But..."there is a point when an emphasis on religion becomes inappropriate and even unsettling in a religiously diverse society such as ours."...

........ReverendWright admired LouisFarrakhan....,and often praised him both in sermons and in his church's magazine, the Trumpet. Through carefully distorted biblical passages, black liberation theology portrays.....

A key link of the religious left to Obama was a 1998 BlackRadicalCongress in Chicago. ReverendWright shared a panel with CornelWest and MichaelDyson of the DemocraticSocialistsofAmerica (DSA) and Socialism Commission. The title of the panel was "Faith as a Weapon: Spirituality and the Role of the Church in the RadicalMovement" (Loudon,BarackObama and the Enemies Within,......

.....Another link of Obama to the religious left is his spiritual advisor, JimWallis. Wallis is the founder of Sojourners, which describes itself as a" biblical call to social justice, inspiring hope and building a movement to transform individuals, communities, the church and the world." Originating in Chicago, Wallis was lured to Washington by Institute forPolicyStudies....

...In an interview in 1979, Wallis expressed the hope that "more Christians will come to view the world through Marxist eyes." Wallis, funded by Soros, has served on Obama's White House Advisory Council on Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnership since 2008.

It is clear that the religious left has penetrated organized religion for decades.... More important, they worship a Marxist State instead of God. Are they using "faith as a weapon" to destroy religion?

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: communism; ethicsofenergy; jimwallis; lefistchurch; lordmonckton; marxism; monckton; ncc; obama; religion; religiousleft; socialjustice
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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So many dots and connections. Well researched and written. Worth a full read.
1 posted on 03/11/2012 12:04:30 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

They also hid nazi war criminals.


2 posted on 03/11/2012 12:11:22 AM PST by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: All

In June 2007, Democratic presidential candidates joined Reverend Jim Wallis (second from right) for a public forum on faith, values, and poverty in Washington, DC. Sojourners, the largest national network of "progressive" Christians founded by Wallis, sponsored the event in which former Sen. John Edwards (far left), Sen. Hillary Clinton (second from left), and Sen. Barack Obama (far right) attended.

3 posted on 03/11/2012 12:15:32 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: MestaMachine
They also hid nazi war criminals.

They blame the U.S. for the deaths of those fleeing oppression. It's sick.

4 posted on 03/11/2012 12:17:55 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Clueless. The left has been "moving into religion" ever since the Bund der Gerechten foisted Moses Mendelsohn and Abraham Geiger on the Jewish religion in the eighteenth century, effectively splintering off "Reform Judaism" from the main body of the faith. They did it again with Solomon Shechter and "conservative" Judaism, which is effectively a distinction without a significant difference.

The key was to donate the money for the land for a divinity school, thus maintaining the leverage to keep an agent on the board of directors, by which to appoint the dean of faculty. Effectively, such "generosity" has been the model for controlling university hierarchies ever since, and especially at divinity schools.

This gambit of 'divide and move the pieces' (in which freemasonry has played a key role) has been practiced over and over, being the model behind which so many protestant religions successively established within the US.

Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Smith, et al., we're onto yooooo!

5 posted on 03/11/2012 12:18:38 AM PST by Carry_Okie (The RNC would prefer Obama to a conservative nominee.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

This guy is a real piece of crap. Wallis can go straight to hell. His motives are very dishonest.


6 posted on 03/11/2012 12:21:00 AM PST by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: Carry_Okie

So true. Amen.


7 posted on 03/11/2012 12:22:13 AM PST by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: ProgressingAmerica

progressives preaching poison ping


8 posted on 03/11/2012 12:36:39 AM PST by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
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To: Lazlo in PA; Carry_Okie; All
....Creation Care, Mother Earth, Environmental Journalists and Professors as High Priests of Activism...

National Council of Churches Eco-Justice Programs --------- NCC Programs

9 posted on 03/11/2012 12:41:26 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Looks like Newton all the way..

Lets rock...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPW3gRgXTq0


10 posted on 03/11/2012 12:48:33 AM PST by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Let us rock out on this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq5_pEO8a8U


11 posted on 03/11/2012 12:51:19 AM PST by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: Lazlo in PA

Greetings Lazlo in PA:

First awareness of Jim Wallis’ activities thanks to Glenn Beck’s TV Show exposes. But in one story, Mary Nichols really opens my eyes.

Lord have mercy,
OLA


12 posted on 03/11/2012 12:54:01 AM PST by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
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To: Lazlo in PA

:)


13 posted on 03/11/2012 1:14:12 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: OneLoyalAmerican

A new story on Hanoi Jim Wallis will be coming out soon. The original source of his support for the North Vietnamese had been misplaced but has now been found and is in the process of being written up for the public.

Don’t know where it will initially appear, but it will quote extensively from Wallis including his comments on plans for “social liberation” as the basis for his form of marxist Christianity.

This is one marxist who slipped through the cracks during the 1970’s until he emerged with the marxist-oriented “Sojourners” in the 1980’s.

See www.frontpagemagazine.com and its’ “DiscoverTheNetwork.com” site for details on Wallis. Also Trevor Loudon’s www.keywiki.org, search for “Jim Wallis” in the search box.

We can definitely add another marxist/hater to Obama’s religious confidants and advisors, including Wright, Pfleger, Farrakhan, and Wolf, as well as the “hate-whitey” influence of Prof. James Cone, and the personal teachings/relationships of Derek Bell and Charles Ogletree.

This is just going to get better and better as obama is finally “vetted” like he should be. The red closet is going to ripped open for the whole world to see.


14 posted on 03/11/2012 1:21:11 AM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

eliminate religion from your Life...
How?
use your Wisdom to establish your relationship with Our Creator(~).

Peace be with You


15 posted on 03/11/2012 1:24:55 AM PST by FreedomSearcher
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Communist Goals (1963)

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”


16 posted on 03/11/2012 1:32:25 AM PST by beaversmom
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To: beaversmom
Communist Goals (1963)


17 posted on 03/11/2012 1:35:50 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Yep, those “watermelons” may be many different colors on the outside, but always red in the middle.


18 posted on 03/11/2012 1:38:29 AM PST by beaversmom
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

Greetings MadMax, the Grinning Reaper:

If we didn’t have an useless gaggle of lickspittle, fawning “journalists” masqurading as reporters; the moment Barry Soroto (or whatever his real name is) announced James Wallis as “spiritual advisor,” stories such as this should have popped up nationwide on the front page.

In this grand information age, I’ve never felt so ignorant.

Looking forward to the red closet grand opening,
OLA


19 posted on 03/11/2012 1:38:46 AM PST by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
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To: FreedomSearcher
Will you be attending?

The Reason Rally

Perhaps you were being sarcastic?

20 posted on 03/11/2012 1:41:42 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: beaversmom
Yep, those “watermelons” may be many different colors on the outside, but always red in the middle.

The "green" movement/indoctrination has long been cover for the "red" movement/takeover.

21 posted on 03/11/2012 1:43:28 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Yes. Reference to "colors" meaning the different leftist causes:

My FR post from Feb. 15 in bold

Just as gun control is not about guns.

And global warming isn't about the environment. And gay marriage isn't about equal rights. And welfare isn't about giving people a hand up. And abortion isn't about women's rights. Every single cause on their agenda has a dark purpose. They truly are the party of the devil.

22 posted on 03/11/2012 1:54:30 AM PST by beaversmom
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To: beaversmom

[Lord] “Monckton’s Schenectady showdown”

.....”Lord Monckton, sternly but sadly, told those who had raised their hands: “You know, from the plain and clear demonstration that I gave during my lecture, that the IPCC’s statistical abuse was just that – an abuse. Yet, perhaps out of misplaced loyalty to your professor, you raised your hands in denial of the truth. Never do that again, even for the sake of appeasing authority. In science, whatever you may personally believe or wish to be so, it is the truth and only the truth that matters.”

That pin, if you had dropped it, could have been heard again. Many young heads were hung in shame. Even their professor looked just a little less arrogant than he had done throughout the proceedings. Quietly they shuffled out into the darkness.
That night, the Gore Effect worked overtime. Temperatures plummeted to 14° F. The following morning, as we drove through the snowy landscape of upstate New York towards the next venue the following morning, I asked Lord Monckton what he had thought of the strange conduct of the professor, particularly when he had abused his authority by asking his students to assent to the correctness of a statistical technique that he and they had known to be plainly false.

Lord Monckton’s reply was moving. Gently, and sadly, he said, “We shall lose the West unless we can restore the use of reason to pre-eminence in our institutions of what was once learning. It was the age of reason that built the West and made it prosperous and free. The age of reason gave you your great Constitution of liberty. It is the power of reason, the second of the three great powers of the soul in Christian theology, that marks our species out from the rest of the visible creation, and makes us closest to the image and likeness of our Creator. I cannot stand by and let the forces of darkness drive us unprotesting into a new Dark Age.”.......

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/03/10/moncktons-schenectady-showdown/#more-58770


23 posted on 03/11/2012 1:59:28 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: beaversmom
And global warming isn't about the environment. And gay marriage isn't about equal rights. And welfare isn't about giving people a hand up. And abortion isn't about women's rights. Every single cause on their agenda has a dark purpose. They truly are the party of the devil.

Identity politics is used to divide and conquer. They appeal to greed and entitlement and they plant seeds of discontent instead of freedom. No matter how a Leftist self-identifies, first and foremost they are fellow travelers.

David Horowitz: ........."And that is why they hate conservatives. They hate you because you are killers of their dream. You are defenders of a Constitution that thwarts their cause. They hate you because your “reactionary” commitment to individual rights, to a single standard and to a neutral and limited state obstructs their progressive designs. They hate you because you are believers in property and its rights as the cornerstones of prosperity and human freedom; because you do not see the market economy as a mere instrument for acquiring personal wealth and stocking political war chests, but as both means and end.

Conservatives who think progressives are misinformed idealists will always be blind-sided by the sheer malice of the left -- by the cynicism of those who pride themselves on their principles; by the viciousness of those who champion sensitivity; by the intolerance of those who call themselves liberal; and by the ruthless disregard for the well-being of the poor on the part of those who preen themselves as their champions.

Conservatives are surprised because they see progressives as merely misguided, when they are, in fact, morally – and ontologically -- misdirected. They are the messianists of a false religious faith. Since the redeemed future that justifies their existence and rationalizes their hypocrisy can never be realized, what really motivates progressives is a modern idolatry: their limitless passion for the continuance of Them."

24 posted on 03/11/2012 3:05:09 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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David Horowitz: Progressive Narcissism [quoted in Post #24]
25 posted on 03/11/2012 3:06:32 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I’m reading the piece about Monckton right now. Thanks for posting. I hadn’t heard much about him lately.


26 posted on 03/11/2012 3:13:21 AM PDT by beaversmom
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To: OneLoyalAmerican

THe information was not readily available to the general news media who would have missed its availability. This time I’ll give them a pass (I was a card-carrying member of the legitimate news media for many years, including NAM).

The particular document I’m referring to was obtained at some pro-Hanoi rally by someone with the prescience to save it for future study. It was rediscovered about a year ago but got lost in the shuffle of the Obama onslaught in other areas, but I promise that this is going to be good.

The only question is to where it will appear first. That decision is purely one of circulation value rather than one of favoring one publication over another.

I understand that it might be circulated to several national publications nearly simultaneously for better coverage. I’m sure that it will appear at FR in the near future. I understand that the title will be roughly “Rev. Jim Wallis: Hanoi Supporter”. That should be easy to Google.

The US Left thought that we Vietnam guys rolled over and died during the past decades but a bunch of us, in various organizations and then regroupings of scholars, labored on, uncovering the deceit of the Left, i.e. the Hanoi Lobby, and then, fortunately, the lies of Sen. John F**ing Kerry about his service there. Hence “Unfit for Command”, the book that put an election torpedo up Kerry’s pinko ass and sank his presidential boat.

This band of brothers is still out there, ambushing the Left, picking them off one at a time, and now the target has shifted to Rev. Jim Wallis, Hanoi flak.

Well, he’s going to get some flak pretty soon, and it will be right on target.

Hopefully another Obama marxist friend will go down in flames. Singing, “Another One Bites The Dust”.

Will let everyone know when I know when and where the article will appear.

Sleep tight. Americans are still on guard.


27 posted on 03/11/2012 3:16:55 AM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I’m not so concerned about the left moving into religion as much as the military. The left has shown they are not interested in obeying the Constitution. What will happen when the take over the military?


28 posted on 03/11/2012 3:29:21 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

http://www.sentinelsource.com/news/national_world/gingrich-calls-for-panetta-resignation/article_920448da-5357-5285-860f-f0e8ccd75797.html

......”Responding to a statement that the U.S. was placing military resolutions of the United Nations, NATO and the Arab League ahead of those made by Congress, Panetta told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Wednesday: “You know, our goal would be to seek international permission. And we would come to the Congress and inform you and determine how best to approach this, whether or not we would want to get permission from the Congress.”

Later in the day, a defense official said that Panetta’s comments could be taken out of context.

“He was re-emphasizing the need for an international mandate. We are not ceding U.S. decision-making authority to some foreign body,” the official said.

But Gingrich said the secretary’s comments showed “how radical this administration is.”

“The time has come for us to focus on American interests. And I want you to know that the foreign policy I would follow starts with American values, American interests and American institutions,” he said.

Gingrich added, “Leon Panetta is the United States secretary of defense, not the United Nations secretary of defense.”

The U.S. Constitution stipulates that the power to declare war rests with Congress, and the president is the commander in chief of the armed forces.

Gingrich is not the first presidential candidate to call for Panetta’s resignation. At a November presidential debate, Texas Gov. Rick Perry said the defense secretary should resign in protest of defense cuts that were to be triggered by a budget supercommittee stalemate.

And Panetta is not the first Obama administration official who Gingrich has said should resign. Three other Cabinet secretaries — Attorney General Eric Holder, Energy Secretary Steven Chu and Interior Secretary Ken Salazar — have gained his ire, as has Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke.”


29 posted on 03/11/2012 3:58:25 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: HarleyD

“What will happen when they take over the military?”

To ask the question is to foreshadow the answer.


30 posted on 03/11/2012 4:05:54 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I have been searching for a church to attend lately. So many have their ‘social justice’ programs listed on their websites another called it ‘social advocacy’...

And the only thing that keeps coming to mind is Matthew 6. Which of course contains the Lord’s prayer, but also contains instructions on how to conduct our social affairs.

1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

....

24No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

25Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

26Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

27Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

28And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.


31 posted on 03/11/2012 5:16:06 AM PDT by EBH (God Humbles Nations, Leaders, and Peoples before He uses them for His Purpose)
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To: EBH
I have been searching for a church to attend lately. So many have their ‘social justice’ programs listed on their websites another called it ‘social advocacy’...

Schools, churches, the media and governments are all getting behind the green social justice call. It is a HUGE RED flag.

32 posted on 03/11/2012 5:38:04 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
This is just going to get better and better as obama is finally “vetted” like he should be. The red closet is going to ripped open for the whole world to see.

Americans of my parents' and grandparents' generations are turning over in their graves, to see the public intellectual and religious life of America polluted by so many America-haters, Marxists, and Weather Underground conspirators of every description. These people have all the moral authority of the Ku Klux Klan but are treated as if they were Billy Graham by the fawning LieStreamMedia.

33 posted on 03/11/2012 8:19:47 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; Lazlo in PA; GladesGuru
Contrary to the beliefs of MANY FReepers, the 18th Century Enlightenment was infused with a distaste if not outright hostility to Christianity. Science had convinced the bulk of philosophers of that time, from Diderot to Hume, to Locke, Smith, and Rousseau, that the Church was to be at best placated if not outright disregarded.

It was this infatuation with the forbidden pleasures of pagan Roman philosophers that led to our structure of government and its iconography. When such philosophers were speaking of "God" it certainly wasn't that as defined in Torah, but varied from atheism to a confused sort of pantheism. Many of their references to "God" were out of reticence to attack Christianity directly in of fear of reprisal. Many of their parallel references to morality were, instead, cleverly built upon the Roman idea of manly virtue, leaving the listener to believe that they were talking specifically about Christian virtue. That ambiguity has led to a huge number of what are effectively 'God and Country' misquotes.

The best source I can recommend on this history is Peter Gay's massive (1,300pp), readable, and thoroughly documented two-part essay: The Enlightenment: (1) The Rise of Modern Paganism and (2) The Science of Freedom.

The "scientific naturist" thinking common to today's (covertly Satanic) "Green Religion" was founded in the poetic philosophy of Lucretius, who was very influential over Cicero and thence the Founders (although Lucretius was widely read and commended enthusiastically among them at that time).

34 posted on 03/11/2012 8:53:07 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The RNC would prefer Obama to a conservative nominee.)
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To: lentulusgracchus
See Post 34 above. I should add that much of the association of today's "green religion" with specifically the Marxist left originated in the Sabbatean movement of the 17th Century.
35 posted on 03/11/2012 9:09:02 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The RNC would prefer Obama to a conservative nominee.)
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To: OneLoyalAmerican; All; Cincinatus' Wife; Noumenon; JDoutrider; unkus; detective; iceskater; ...
You bet it's poisonous, thanks for pointing out this article. It's pretty good, spanning multiple continents and generations, as waves of social justice, the social gospel, and liberation theology have come through like locusts.

Revolutionary progressivism ping..............


36 posted on 03/11/2012 9:27:56 AM PDT by ProgressingAmerica (What's the best way to reach a you tube generation? Put it on you tube!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; beaversmom
Communist Goals of 1963, set to Soviet Anthem


37 posted on 03/11/2012 9:32:11 AM PDT by ProgressingAmerica (What's the best way to reach a you tube generation? Put it on you tube!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Monckton - It was the age of reason that built the West and made it prosperous and free. The age of reason gave you your great Constitution of liberty.

Monckton's assertion here is a commonly conflated misunderstanding of the history of philosophical thought. "Reason," understood in the 18th Century as defined by religious scholars such as Aquinas, was attacked by the philosophers that defined the modern era.

38 posted on 03/11/2012 10:04:58 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The RNC would prefer Obama to a conservative nominee.)
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To: Carry_Okie

I must point out that to call “reformed Judaism” Jewish is s stretch worthy of the comic book character “Plastic Man”. Having been raised in a very Conservative synagogue, which became less so as it became more affluent, I can understand how Jews changed to “get along”, to be seen as more similar to teh Christians.

Having said that, I must point out that once one gives up ones core principles, the results are almost always negative. As the British of an earlier era said, “First, Principles!”

The principles of Deformed Judaism (the accurate adjective for such soi dissant synagogues) as rather closer to Marx than Moses.

Hint: Look up “Sabateans”.

The last six of the Ten Commandments form the core of any civilized American’s behavioral principles,along with the Founding Documents.

Were we to have retained the response towards property that even a watch dog has, we would not be in the crisis we now find ourselves mired in.

Had we actually educated our children instead of warehousing them in commie controlled public schools, we would not be inundated with “Urban Ferals” who are largely unacculturated blacks and Hispanics.

Those unable to understand the difference between “mine” and “thine” can’t be allowed loose in a Republic. Just because a member of the “unacculturated” happens to have the money to buy a university department does not make said “philanthropist” any less seditious if his “gift” furthers concepts antithetical to, and irreconcilable with the American Republic’s Founding Documents.

Reminder to the “Deformed”: The Mosaic Law call for a “just society” is not the same as the collectivist call for “social justice”.


39 posted on 03/11/2012 10:13:39 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

The Left is basically what Jim Jones did....decided to create a religion to advance his Marxist beliefs under the guise of religion.


40 posted on 03/11/2012 10:15:41 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: GladesGuru
Having been raised in a very Conservative synagogue, which became less so as it became more affluent, I can understand how Jews changed to “get along”, to be seen as more similar to teh Christians.

LOL, have you read Solomon Shechter's ordination papers? Pure Sabbatean. Antelman translated them in his book.

41 posted on 03/11/2012 10:40:43 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The RNC would prefer Obama to a conservative nominee.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Go to almost any church website, and you’re never more than two clicks away from site with a communist, socialist, collectivist or outright racist and violent outlook.

That speaks more eloquently to the the corruption of our religious institution than anything else. The company they keep is the judgement I make.


42 posted on 03/11/2012 1:10:46 PM PDT by Noumenon ("I tell you, gentlemen, we have a problem on our hands." Col. Nicholson-The Bridge on the River Qwai)
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To: Noumenon
I think you might appreciate posts 34 & 35 above.
43 posted on 03/11/2012 6:10:06 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The RNC would prefer Obama to a conservative nominee.)
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To: Noumenon
Go to almost any church website, and you’re never more than two clicks away from site with a communist, socialist, collectivist or outright racist and violent outlook.

Glad stated "almost".

Not likely to find such material on (or linked from) congregational web sites of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS); the Lutheran Congregartions in Mission for Christ (LCMC); the North American Lutheran Church (NALC) or any of the various Orthodox jurisdictions.

44 posted on 03/11/2012 6:20:39 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini--nevertheless, Vote Santorum!)
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To: narses; SJackson

Ping!


45 posted on 03/12/2012 12:17:19 AM PDT by Absolutely Nobama (NO COMPROMISE! NO RETREAT! NO SURRENDER! I AM A CONSERVATIVE! CASE CLOSED!)
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To: Carry_Okie
Contrary to the beliefs of MANY FReepers, the 18th Century Enlightenment was infused with a distaste if not outright hostility to Christianity. Science had convinced the bulk of philosophers of that time, from Diderot to Hume, to Locke, Smith, and Rousseau, that the Church was to be at best placated if not outright disregarded.

It was this infatuation with the forbidden pleasures of pagan Roman philosophers that led to our structure of government and its iconography. When such philosophers were speaking of "God" it certainly wasn't that as defined in Torah, but varied from atheism to a confused sort of pantheism. Many of their references to "God" were out of reticence to attack Christianity directly in of fear of reprisal. Many of their parallel references to morality were, instead, cleverly built upon the Roman idea of manly virtue, leaving the listener to believe that they were talking specifically about Christian virtue. That ambiguity has led to a huge number of what are effectively 'God and Country' misquotes.

Preach it, brother! The "enlightenment" is/was/shall ever be nothing but sheer unadulterated poison, and unfortunately many of our nation's founders were infected with it.

There is a very common fault on the Right to (as it were) "deify" the founders of a country. While more ancient nations have primal blood-and-soil mythologies, Americans have only the eighteenth century the the likes of Thomas Jefferson. The "nature's 'gxd'" Thomas Jefferson invoked in the Declaration of Independence is not the Biblical G-d but the "gxd" of deism--the notion that a "gxd" of some sort created the world but then did nothing more, which meant all revealed religions were frauds (deism was popular because prior to Darwin outright atheism didn't quite make any sense). If the eighteenth century deists had had something like "natural selection" to work with they would have been atheists--period.

By making our rights come from "nature's 'gxd'" rather than from the Biblical G-d Jefferson was laying the groundwork for the atheistic concept of "rights" that was to come after Comte and Darwin. Thus the poison was in our system from the very beginning.

It is only natural and laudable to applaud our founders and acknowledge their greatness. But they weren't perfect, and it is not wrong or unpatriotic to point out the flaws in their philosophy.

(Methinks you are also a reader of Rabbi Antelman? He's goes a little far out sometimes, but he's certainly interesting!)

46 posted on 03/12/2012 5:58:12 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
There is a very common fault on the Right to (as it were) "deify" the founders of a country. While more ancient nations have primal blood-and-soil mythologies,

With the Constitution as its graven image. Yep.

While more ancient nations have primal blood-and-soil mythologies, Americans have only the eighteenth century the the likes of Thomas Jefferson.

When I was in Holland on our honeymoon, I had to explain to one Dutchman why Americans bought and restored old buildings, "We don't have any 'old.'"

TJ was neck deep in that Enlightenment "philosope" crowd (to use Peter Gay's word). So was Franklin. Adams less so. Washington the politician. Henry, now there was a Christian patriot.

Methinks you are also a reader of Rabbi Antelman? He's goes a little far out sometimes, but he's certainly interesting!

Yup, Gershom Scholem is another. Rabbi Antelman filled in a lot of gaps in the ol' History of Western Civ narrative, didn't he? Especially helpful to me was providing a motive for the evils of Marxism in his citation to Sanhedrin 98a. I think there's a lot more to his research into colloidal silver than the desire to make money. The man is a Jew's Jew, a true humanitarian.

We live in a world run by eschatological maniacs. We do what we can to stem that toxic red tide.

The study of associations from without will always have its uncertainties. Rabbi Antelman did better than most at digging out the source documents to prove his point. There are leaps in his case, but that's just part of that type of work. You can't know what to look for without a hypothesis, but you won't have the passion to get there without believing it. It's the honesty to reconsider when one runs into outliers that is the difference between good and bad researchers.

It is only natural and laudable to applaud our founders and acknowledge their greatness. But they weren't perfect, and it is not wrong or unpatriotic to point out the flaws in their philosophy.

True. Nor is it a bad thing to point out critical flaws in the Constitution, which I have done here from time to time.

Similarly, IMHO it's not a bad thing to point out discord within Judaism. By virtue of its (understandably) monolithic defensiveness and by not acknowledging or informing the Christian world of its internal divisions, the Jewish people get treated like a monolith when the acts of reprisal are rendered evil: without justice, compassion, or intelligence.

Nothing makes me angrier than to realize that the NAZI war machine was provided startup cash with (culturally) Jewish money (the Sabbatean bund). Yet is was Jewish doctors, scientists, artists, and shopkeepers, decent people who loved the Lord with all their hearts, who suffered and died unspeakably while the atheist thieves of the world laughed up their sleeves and gorged on depravity.

It has been on my heart to help, and I think I have found something Israel truly needs to understand. The last few years is centered on the almost mechanical logic of the year of Shemitta. By translating tishm'tena un'tashtah in Ex:23:11 literally, as 'release it and abandon it' (the land not the crop), I can explain every single blessing and curse in Lev. 26 by normal military, economic, social, and environmental metrics. There's no mystery to it at all and there is very good reason why the practice during the Second Temple Period as described in the Talmud Yerushalmi Tractate Shvi'it was circumscribed from the original intent in Exodus. BTW, the founding verse for the Sabbath for the Land is not mentioned, at all, in the entire two volumes of Tractate Shvi'it, for which there was VERY good reason. Had the rabbis been teaching the true extent of Ex. 23:11 under Persian, Greek, or Roman rule, it would have been suicidal. The rabbis would have been arrested and killed, and the Torah would have been lost.

IMO, Isreal's survival depends upon understanding the long lost meaning of this ancient law. The partial measures prescribed in the Talmud won't cut it. If that causes you any distress, I am truly sorry.

I've since gone back to re-translate Genesis 4 and, yes, it does make clear the rationale for the Sabbath year. But before we continue this conversation further, I should inform you that I am a Torah-observant Christian (although my grandfather was probably a full-blooded Jew). I wouldn't want you consulting my work without knowing that.

Baruch HaShem.

47 posted on 03/12/2012 7:15:15 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The RNC would prefer Obama to a conservative nominee.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Placemark.


48 posted on 03/12/2012 10:11:34 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: Noumenon

I know exactly what you mean — a green-collective-social-justice doctrine.


49 posted on 03/13/2012 12:55:38 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Carry_Okie
Thomas Jefferson was not only up to his neck in the enlightenment, his loose constructionism and bankophobia has made him the darling of every anti-Jewish conspiracy theorist in the country for two hundred years.

Personally, I've long held that the "Bill of Rights" was a grave mistake. Alexander Hamilton said the same thing, though his reason was not the same as mine (and his logic a bit specious).

Only "Orthodox Judaism" is Judaism, though a Jew is a Jew whether he is observant or not (Halakhah determines "who is a Jew"). Unfortunately, the true rulers of Israel (Gedolei HaTorah) are unknown to the non-Jewish world and the Orthodox have allowed the "alphabet agencies" to become the "official" Jewish voice. These organizations have no Halakhic authority whatsoever and cannot be spokesmen for `Am Yisra'el.

As a Noachide, I do not feel free to critique traditional Judaism as you perhaps do, so I'm not going to tell the Rabbis that they've gotten anything wrong--though I've certainly been loud on the default Jewish position of internal fundamentalism and external liberalism.

When I say Antelman is a bit "out there," I am referring to some extremely controversial positions he holds with regard to traditional Jewish practice, not to any conspiracy theories. He believes the 'Af-Beri passage in the prayer for rain recited on Shemini `Atzeret and the much loved Unetanneh Toqef prayer recited on the High Holy Days are actually heretical and should be suppressed. I'm not touchin' that with a ten foot pole.

As a Noachide, I am also leery of any conspiracy theory that implies that there is a "gxd of this world" separate from HaShem ("The Devil") who runs this world until G-d "comes back." HaSatan is simply an angel of G-d doing his job, HaShem is in total, absolute, sole control (with no metaphysical enemy or evil counterpart), and "Lucifer" as a "fallen angel" is a chr*stian myth. The fact that there may be powerful people who believe in Lucifer and expect him to "enlighten" them doesn't change a thing.

50 posted on 03/13/2012 7:42:43 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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