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Boeing's Albaugh worries about 'intellectual disarmament' of U.S.
Seattle Times ^ | June 12, 2011 | Dominic Gates

Posted on 06/13/2011 2:08:25 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

...[Jim Albaugh] ticked off a list of broad national problems that transcend Boeing:

• Brain drain of talented immigrants:...."Now, the best and brightest come to the United States, get trained, and leave, and go back and compete against us."

• Defense cuts: "There is no industrial base policy in the Department of Defense other than market forces," he said. "Right now, the Boeing Company is the only company in the United States that has a design team working on a new airplane. There are no [all-new] airplanes being developed for the Department of Defense probably for the first time in 100 years."

• Competition from China: "The law of large numbers would dictate that they are going to have more smart people than we are going to have. And their government has identified aerospace as an industry that they've targeted,".....

When Defense Secretary Robert Gates visited China in January, the Chinese military made a very public test flight of its previously secret J-20 Stealth fighter.

"A lot of people saw that as a military threat," Albaugh said. "I didn't. I saw it more as an economic threat. They will sell that airplane around the world and will take away a lot of the market that's been enjoyed by U.S. defense contractors."

• NASA cuts and private space ventures: "They are trying to commercialize space. ... Getting the reliability requires a lot of redundancy, which requires a lot of cost," Albaugh said. "I think it's going to be a money pit for a lot of them."

He lamented the U.S. government's withdrawal from space exploration as the space-shuttle program winds down: "My prediction is that the Chinese will walk on the moon before we launch an American into orbit again in a U.S. spacecraft."

(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: aerospace; boeing; economy; nationalsecurity
When Defense Secretary Robert Gates visited China in January, the Chinese military made a very public test flight of its previously secret J-20 Stealth fighter.

"A lot of people saw that as a military threat," Albaugh said. "I didn't. I saw it more as an economic threat....

It is both.

My prediction is that the Chinese will walk on the moon before we launch an American into orbit again in a U.S. spacecraft."

This is the change guys.

1 posted on 06/13/2011 2:08:29 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Intellectual disarmament is a direct result of moral disarmament. ;-/


2 posted on 06/13/2011 2:39:51 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

The Chinese are discovering Capitalism while our leaders are taking us into the dark ages of Socialism through the exploitation of our education system and robbery of our citizens in order to redistribute the wealth into a black hole. Unions do not dictate China’s economic policies as they do her. They also are not going bankrupt.


3 posted on 06/13/2011 2:40:06 AM PDT by jazzlite (esat)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

From the ‘intellectuals’ at Harvard to Section 8 housing, philosophically there isn’t much difference. They’ll never understand American Exceptionalism. Oh how I hate this pres-ent and his kind.


4 posted on 06/13/2011 2:50:02 AM PDT by Track9 (Make War!!)
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To: jazzlite
The Chinese are discovering Capitalism while our leaders are taking us into the dark ages of Socialism

Not quite. A more accurate statement is that both powers are enjoying the enrichment (to some) provided by crony capitalism backed by oligarchy. They take from us and give it to themselves.

Similar to the old Soviet-style communism, but much wider effects because more money is generated for them to redistribute.

5 posted on 06/13/2011 2:53:41 AM PDT by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Rempublicam)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Quite sobering but not surprising, since the World Community Organizer-In-Chief has all but designated NASA as a Muslim outreach center.


6 posted on 06/13/2011 2:55:16 AM PDT by drierice
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
...[Jim Albaugh] ticked off a list of broad national problems that transcend Boeing: • Brain drain of talented immigrants:...."Now, the best and brightest come to the United States, get trained, and leave, and go back and compete against us."

This is simply the biggest pile of horse manure that has ever been put in front of the American Public. I'm getting sick and tired of seeing many in the technology sector complaining about brain drain. The only brains that are draining are their own.

We don't need these huge pools of talented immigrants. These companies want cheap labor, plain and simple. They are laying off talented American and hiring cheap pools of immigrants. This is despicable. It's the biggest myth around that we don't have enough American to fill these jobs. Total Garbage. And a huge amount of national security secrets go out the door with these huge pool of immigrant engineers and scientists. The Chinese are the absolute worst at this. You cannot go for a month without reading about a case of Chinese espionage committed by one of these immigrants Albaugh loves so much. This Albaugh fellow is one of a new class of person I now call post-American.
7 posted on 06/13/2011 2:58:56 AM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough.)
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To: Cincinatus
Similar to the old Soviet-style communism, but much wider effects because more money is generated for them to redistribute.

I would disagree here. To me the Chinese Government has morphed into fascism, they just kept the Commie logo for obvious reason. The lefty's that run out corps now would have never sold us out to fascists, but to good commies of course. The Chinese are not stupid.

8 posted on 06/13/2011 3:03:52 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: truthguy

We need to restrict H1-b’s now! We are undercutting out future, can’t anyone see that but you and I? I am anti-union as the next FReeper but clearly engineers are the only group of professionals that actually need protection. It is a matter of national security.


9 posted on 06/13/2011 3:17:13 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: jazzlite
. . . in order to redistribute the wealth into a black hole.

That's racist.

I prefer the more appropriate, "unilluminated abyss".

Oh yeah . . . < /sarc>

10 posted on 06/13/2011 3:18:48 AM PDT by Quiller (When you're fighting to survive, there is no "try" -- there is only do, or do not.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks Cincinatus' Wife.
"Now, the best and brightest come to the United States, get trained, and leave, and go back and compete against us."

11 posted on 06/13/2011 3:21:17 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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To: central_va
We need to restrict H1-b’s now! We are undercutting out future, can’t anyone see that but you and I? I am anti-union as the next FReeper but clearly engineers are the only group of professionals that actually need protection. It is a matter of national security.

Actually there are a growing number of people who are aware of this problem. I've worked in the technology sector for top companies and I've worked with many of these people and they are so overrated that it's pathetic. It's also an extreme irritation to have to listen to people all day long who butcher the English Language. Very frustrating.

Look we have the largest number of Colleges in the world. We have the Largest Number of Engineering Schools in the world. All we have to do is use the Americans who are already here. It's madness that we bring in all these H1-B Visas. Of course there are a very few exceptions. If we find a Werner Von Braun or someone like him we can bring them in, but on average, these H1-B guys are mediocre at best. And I've known dozens of them and they are far inferior to the Americans I went to school with at an American University.
12 posted on 06/13/2011 3:26:34 AM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

There is no one whose a** we can’t kick if we quit trying to commit national suicide. This, however, won’t always be true it we get too far away from what our strengths are.

People need to remember why we have locks on our doors. Unfortunately we don’t live in an altruistic world, and others will take what we have if we let them. I trust us, as a nation, to be fair and charitable to the world. I don’t trust the world to be that way toward us. If we fall, they won’t pick us up.


13 posted on 06/13/2011 3:34:25 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

like no one saw this coming, except those in the field...

and the members of congress.

why do i say congress? i know for a fact that this exact scenario was laid out in 1998 when the H1-b bill was passed. it was laid out to members of 5 different congressional offices by at least one person.

me

they knew this was coming.
they knew the obvious impact.
they didn’t care and continue to work against the best interests of Americans.

why is it we’re not able to hold them liable for damages done? since when did they become above the law?


14 posted on 06/13/2011 3:59:14 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: pieceofthepuzzle

You have that right.

And for posters lamenting the education of foreigners (and some staying here), well, look at our institutions of higher learning who love to rake in that foreign education money. Time was these foreigners stayed because the USA had a good program but now they go home because the President and his Science and Technology Adviser, John Holdren (look this guy up), want to level the playing field (and that can only suit the socialists in academic circles that take monthly junkets to foreign countries for endless cycles of meetings).

The problem is WE ARE NOT staying competitive! We are not.


15 posted on 06/13/2011 4:05:07 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: truthguy

I work for a very large outsourcing company. We just staffed a prominent US company with 100 programmers, tech support in addition to moving the help desk and testing center off shore.

The company doesn’t have to pick up the benefits for 100 + people, it doesn’t have to pay salaries to 100 + people. it minimized it’s risk profile and it’s IT department can now run 24x7 to support development efforts.

It’s not that they can’t find employees. It’s the savings of over $750,000 a year in costs that made it an attractive deal. And they have a responsibility the stockholder and to their customers.

It’s not that good people are hard to find. It’s that good people, facilities to staff them and insure them are expensive.

The bad side of obamacare might save jobs and that is by companies dropping insurance, it becomes cheaper to hire people. Employees would have to find their own health care. I am not endorsing it, just giving an observation. Question is, how do you make that insurance cheap enough for individuals to buy? I pay 20% of what I would pay if I had to buy it own my own. And that is with less benefits at higher deductibles.


16 posted on 06/13/2011 4:19:06 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Sarah Palin, the only candidate to be vetted by the NY Times, the Washington Post and NBC.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
He lamented the U.S. government's withdrawal from space exploration as the space-shuttle program winds down

That's probably the only sensible thing this gov't. has done. He's upset that his company won't as easily get the plum space contracts. He'll have to compete with smaller, less-expensive firms.

17 posted on 06/13/2011 4:47:02 AM PDT by BfloGuy (Money, like chocolate on a hot oven, was melting in the pockets of the people.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Engineering pay for the most part is terrible. Engineering, especially aerospace engineering, is one of the most difficult, technically challenging,time consuming professions there are.
But the pay is substantially less than other professional occupations like doctor or lawyer.
Up the pay and you'll have no problem attracting engineers.
18 posted on 06/13/2011 4:52:44 AM PDT by avg_freeper (Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga)
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To: BfloGuy

Bull.

Commercial start-ups are people like Elon Musk who is a heavy campaign contributor and fundraiser for Obama and democrats. It’s crony-capitalism and the U.S. is going to left grounded while foreign countries move out and control that arena.

But then again that’s just what the Science and Technology Adviser for Obama wants.

Those ready to attack legacy companies that have worked for NASA are just the new guys on the block who want their turn at the trough.


19 posted on 06/13/2011 5:08:47 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: avg_freeper

Interesting point.

I guess American doctors will be the next to go.

That leaves a glut of lawyers.


20 posted on 06/13/2011 5:10:33 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: central_va
To me the Chinese Government has morphed into fascism

The old Soviet Union was as fascist as they get. Lenninism and the "dictatorship of the proletariat" is nothing more than oligarchy and a cult of the personality.

21 posted on 06/13/2011 5:21:37 AM PDT by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Rempublicam)
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To: avg_freeper
But the pay is substantially less than other professional occupations like doctor or lawyer.

The educational requirements for engineers to enter that profession is nowhere near that of doctors and even lawyers. An engineer can begin working after four years of college; lawyers seven and doctors eight plus various lengths of time in residency.

Those aren't really comparable.

22 posted on 06/13/2011 5:23:22 AM PDT by Will88
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
There are no [all-new] airplanes being developed for the Department of Defense probably for the first time in 100 years."

I don't believe that one at all. It probably applies to white-world, manned aircraft programs, and is therefore cheap spin.

He makes good points, otherwise.
23 posted on 06/13/2011 5:30:21 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I absolutely agree with you, and you are spot on about the academic mind-set.

It's ludicrous to believe that those at the academy generally have any better ideas or abilities to move the nation and the world forward than other individuals in society do. I say this from the perspective of someone who spent 18 years after high school attaining and advancing my education and training in my profession.

We have made celebrities of politicians, and oracles of those in academia. Big, big mistake. There are smart people with great ideas in every walk of life, and people with limited vision and bad ideas peppered throughout academia and government.

There needs to be a revolution in education that provides a real leveling of the playing field, eradicates the elite designations, and motivates a wider spectrum of people to achieve. Online education, with national standards that can be tested for and certified, is one way to get beyond the 40-60K / year costs that many students are getting soaked for. If someone who self-educates online scores as well or higher than someone who spent 4 years and a fortune at Harvard, so be it.

24 posted on 06/13/2011 5:33:13 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: pieceofthepuzzle

So be it.

BTTT


25 posted on 06/13/2011 5:39:12 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: truthguy
This Albaugh fellow is one of a new class of person I now call post-American.

Far more accurate than you might realize. Jim Albaugh couldn't care less about what happens to the US military industrial base, nor I suspect the long-term technological superiority of the US, as long as he gets his cut of the action along the way. His sole focus is to move into the big chair in Chicago once the board sends McNerny packing.
Further, JFA is now in charge of the commercial aircraft business at Boeing. If he's so worried about the Chinese, one has to wonder why he has now accelerated the aircraft manufacturing technology-sharing partnership with the Chinese gov't that Alan Mullaly fought against for so long??

26 posted on 06/13/2011 5:39:25 AM PDT by liberty_lvr (Drill Gaia like a 3 am prom date)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

We’ve got an intellectly disarmed president. Whadda ya expect?

Real education, as opposed to union sanctioned daycare, makes some kids feel bad. So kids graduate from college who cannot read and we are surprised the Chinese are eating our lunch?


27 posted on 06/13/2011 5:51:08 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Hey Albaugh:

Remember all the cost savings from firing rightsizing outsourcing offshoring all those jobs belonging to middle-aged white males?

Guess what.

They went and told their kids, don't bother with science or technology: you'll have to study too hard in school for maybe a ten-year career, having to retire when you're forty, forty-five, tops.

And the Universities took the hint and accepted mainly womyn into Greivance Studies programs; allowing mainly foreigners into the STEM classes in the sacred name of "Diversity." White males need not apply.

You and the entire cadre of C-level executives starting from the mid-eighties should be hung and your families' wealth confiscated. Your wives and children should be sentenced to begging scraps for a living.

It's what you did to an entire generation of white male US citizens.

And now you have the nerve to look surprised.

Cheers!

28 posted on 06/13/2011 5:56:52 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Will88
The educational requirements for engineers to enter that profession is nowhere near that of doctors and even lawyers. An engineer can begin working after four years of college; lawyers seven and doctors eight plus various lengths of time in residency.

My undergrad degree is in Electrical Engineering (1968) and after a few years working as an EE, I went back to school and became a lawyer, JD in 1976.

Engineering undergrad degrees at the time required about 20% more credit hours than for other majors, so it was really a five year program crammed into four years.

I personally found law school easier than master's level EE classes.

I took a 25% pay cut, by the way, between my last paycheck as an EE and my first one as a newly minted lawyer. However, after a few years of hard work, my income as a telecommunications lawyer was substantially more than it would have been had I remained in engineering.

Jack

29 posted on 06/13/2011 6:14:21 AM PDT by JackOfVA
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To: Track9

They understand it enough to hate it.


30 posted on 06/13/2011 6:15:07 AM PDT by dervish (Israel is not what's wrong with the Middle East; it's what's right with it)
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To: Will88
You're right, they're not comparable. The technical competency required for engineering exceeds those other fields.
I've known so many engineers who've quit and gone into less time consuming areas like law with the secondary benefit of making considerably more.
31 posted on 06/13/2011 6:43:45 AM PDT by avg_freeper (Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"Wait - would you rather live in the ascendancy of a civilization or during its decline?"


32 posted on 06/13/2011 6:50:00 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: jazzlite

Government-controlled industrial policy is not capitalism.

It is mercantilism.

China is deliberately destroying America’s industry. With wide support from “conservative” Americans who would rather sleep through the destruction than recognize what is happening.


33 posted on 06/13/2011 6:51:39 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (BUY AMERICAN. The job you save will be your son's, or your daughter's)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Heh, heh. Intellectual disarmament. I gotta remember that one.


34 posted on 06/13/2011 6:52:26 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Aside from Indians, who do have a democratic country with a rapidly expanding economy to go back to, I don’t know of too many high-tech immigrants who wish to go back to their home countries.


35 posted on 06/13/2011 6:59:37 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: SumProVita

PART of it was the loss of the idea of liberal education, the education proper to a free people, in favor of the idea of education as job training.


36 posted on 06/13/2011 7:22:30 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: truthguy

While I agree that some of what he says is BS - like no defense company building a new airplane. Ever heard of X craft? Lockheed, Northrup, etc are both also working on X craft projects.

However - being in the technology sector my whole life and living in Silicon Valley I can say with certainty that cutting off immigration for access to our University’s is cutting off our own heads.

Here are some empirical facts for you.

1) In Silicon Valley, roughly 80% of all engineers are foreign born.
2) The percentage of American graduating seniors entering STEM majors is alarmingly low. Of those that do - likely the majority are first generation Americans whose parents immigrated here!

With these two points in mind - why does it make sense to shut down the only really solid source of brain power we’ve got in this country.

This isn’t to say I support H1B programs - that is a DIFFERENT discussion. However, not supporting foreign student access to our universities would sign our own death warrants. It would deny our own engineering companies access to the best and brightest ALONG with starving our universities of funds supplied by these students.

What we NEED is a vibrant economy to keep those graduating STEM majors in this country. If opportunities look better at home than here, then naturally they are going to migrate back to where the jobs are.


37 posted on 06/13/2011 7:34:49 AM PDT by fremont_steve
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

You need to separate Mr. Musk’s economic activities from his political beliefs. The simple fact is that he is building a better mouse trap at a lower price. He has attracted government funding because he is doing something that up until now only governments have done, and doing it better!

Space-X has rewritten the book on how you do R&D into construction/launching a rocket. He is also doing it with a large chunk of his own money on the line. Something you don’t see Lockheed or Boeing doing in the Government arena.


38 posted on 06/13/2011 7:41:43 AM PDT by fremont_steve
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To: JackOfVA

Jack - I agree with you (Hold a BSEE myself from 1976). The other simple fact is that it’s a pretty small part of our population that suffer having “the nack”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mpYM4N698s


39 posted on 06/13/2011 7:48:20 AM PDT by fremont_steve
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To: avg_freeper

Whatever, but the disparity in the educational requirements to become a professional engineer compared to MDs and attorneys is great, and that has been and will be reflected in the compensation earned in each field.

Engineering is much more comparable to architecture and CPA work.

And there are plenty of attorneys and doctors and CPAs and others who’d be surprised to learn they work so much less than engineers (because it isn’t true).


40 posted on 06/13/2011 8:58:15 AM PDT by Will88
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