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Edmunds.com Fights Back After White House Attack
The Business Insider ^ | 10/20/09

Posted on 10/30/2009 6:47:35 AM PDT by FromLori

Last night we were shocked to see that The White House was using its blog to tear into car website Edmunds.com over some analysis it did of Cash-For-Clunkers. To recap: Edmunds.com says the program was a gigantic waste with little effect. The White House disagrees.

Anyway, Edmunds is sticking by its analysis, and it put out the following press release:

SANTA MONICA, Calif. — October 29, 2009 — Today the Department of Transportation and White House chose to respond to an analysis Edmunds.com released Wednesday that looked at auto sales this year and what sales volumes would have been had the popular Cash for Clunkers program never existed.

At issue is one point of the analysis showing the taxpayer cost for every incremental vehicle sold was $24,000. To be clear, Edmunds.com is not disputing the government's statements regarding total voucher applications, vehicles sold or voucher values. The key question is how many of these sales would have occurred anyway.

Apparently, the $24,000 figure caught many by surprise. It shouldn't have. The truth is that consumer incentive programs are always hugely expensive when calculated by incremental sales — always in the tens of thousands of dollars. Cash for Clunkers was no exception.

The White House claims that our analysis was based on car sales on Mars and that on Earth, the marketplace is connected. We agree the marketplace is connected. In fact, that is exactly the basis of our analysis.

It is also claimed we missed

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cars; clunkers; edmunds; obamaadministration

1 posted on 10/30/2009 6:47:36 AM PDT by FromLori
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To: FromLori

Typical White House Obama/Alinsky tactics - attack and demean anyone who doesn’t parrot their line, even if it comes from non-political, non-enemies like Edmonds.com.


2 posted on 10/30/2009 6:49:08 AM PDT by St. Louis Conservative
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To: FromLori

Cash for Clunkers was only designed to goose the Third Quarter GDP numbers ...

and it did.

The 3.5% increase in GDP is a false lying number from a fraudulent lying Government.


3 posted on 10/30/2009 6:49:18 AM PDT by DontTreadOnMe2009 (So stop treading on me already!)
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To: FromLori

How dysfunctional do you have to be to add a automobile enthusiast’s website to you enemies list?


4 posted on 10/30/2009 6:50:37 AM PDT by OldDeckHand (Obamacare - So bad, even Joe Lieberman isn't going to vote for it.)
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To: DontTreadOnMe2009

2010’s gonna leave a mark...


5 posted on 10/30/2009 6:50:39 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: DontTreadOnMe2009

Exactly. The 4Q numbers are going to be a disaster for Obama and the country. He’ll try to blame Bush as being a skinny little muslim racist black kid from Kenya, he’s got no game himself.


6 posted on 10/30/2009 6:52:07 AM PDT by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: FromLori

What do university parasites know about business? Nothing. BO does not have a single czar with a business background and it definitely shows in all these idiotic spending programs. Good for Edmond’s for pointing out that they are experts in this area, not Emmanuel, Axelrod and Co.


7 posted on 10/30/2009 6:52:55 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: FromLori
At issue is one point of the analysis showing the taxpayer cost for every incremental vehicle sold was $24,000.

IOW, "Cash for clunkers" real intent was for the cash flow to move towards the government, out of the taxpayers' hands.

8 posted on 10/30/2009 6:54:25 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him" - Job 13:15)
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To: FromLori

FIGHT ‘EM BACK, EDMUNDS!! Don’t let these punks rule the day!


9 posted on 10/30/2009 6:55:03 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: OldDeckHand
How dysfunctional do you have to be to add a automobile enthusiast’s website to you enemies list?

I was thinking likewise.

10 posted on 10/30/2009 6:55:05 AM PDT by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

“2010’s gonna leave a mark...”

You may be right. The lefties at Morning Joe are already beginning the spin. Larry O’Donnell said something to the effect that it’s impossible to keep the momentum of 06 and 08 and that losses are expected.

Bottom line is, once a party gets in power, they forget why they were elected, and start trying to get their fill from the public trough. The Republicans did it, and it led to what happened in 06. Now it’s the Democrats turn to get a beating.

But they never learn. The Republicans, once in power, will behave as badly as the Democrats are now.


11 posted on 10/30/2009 6:56:24 AM PDT by brownsfan (The average American: Uninformed, and unconcerned.)
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To: OldDeckHand

“How dysfunctional do you have to be to add a automobile enthusiast’s website to you enemies list?....”

As I’ve stated before: Liberalism is an insidious and invasive mental disease with no known cure....worse than any cancer. 30 years ago, these morons would be locked up in a state institution undergoing “shock therapy”. Now, we have them in the highest office of the land. They’re extremely irritable, unpredictable, thin-skinned, dangerous and waaaaaayyyyy beyond any modern medical help. In some societies of the world, they call them: IDIOTS.
Does that help?


12 posted on 10/30/2009 6:58:45 AM PDT by lgjhn23
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To: FromLori

How stupid are these guys?
You would think that they would had learned their lesson in the face of the Fox new debacle.

All they are doing is driving up web hits at Edmunds.com


13 posted on 10/30/2009 7:00:57 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: OldDeckHand
How dysfunctional do you have to be to add a automobile enthusiast’s website to you enemies list?

Exactly! Think I should alert The Pet Channel not to diss hounds like Bo?
14 posted on 10/30/2009 7:08:25 AM PDT by mlizzy ("It is impossible to walk rapidly and be unhappy" --Mother Teresa of Calcutta.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Next week in NJ and VA we land the first blow.


15 posted on 10/30/2009 7:09:06 AM PDT by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: FromLori

Have you ever seen a government lash out so often at its critics?


16 posted on 10/30/2009 7:10:23 AM PDT by GeronL (http://tyrannysentinel.blogspot.com .... I am a rogue nobody. One of millions.)
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To: GeronL

No and I am a grandmother so I have seen quite a few administrations.


17 posted on 10/30/2009 7:14:27 AM PDT by FromLori (FromLori)
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To: GeronL
Have you ever seen a government lash out so often at its critics?

Hugo Chavez's?

Do I win a prize?

18 posted on 10/30/2009 7:14:33 AM PDT by sausageseller (http://coolblue.typepad.com/the_cool_blue_blog/)
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To: GeronL

“Have you ever seen a government lash out so often at its critics?”

Yes. But never in the U.S.


19 posted on 10/30/2009 7:15:37 AM PDT by all the best
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To: mlizzy

Obama needs to pick on someone his own size. He can try the little girls down the block selling kool-aid. What a dork.


20 posted on 10/30/2009 7:19:39 AM PDT by healy61
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To: FromLori

Is your tagline from the Department of Redundancy Department? ;-P


21 posted on 10/30/2009 7:20:28 AM PDT by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: FromLori

But wait its not over... If I remember correctly the $8000 incentive to by a house will run out at the end of November. One would expect the real estate market to react with a big dip after that. Again this will be timed to the winter months which are traditionally the slow period. Large good which sales are often tied to house sales, ( new appliances and such) should also see a dip. 4Q09 and 1Q10 are going to be messy.


22 posted on 10/30/2009 7:21:54 AM PDT by lost in the snow
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To: FromLori

If the program cost $24,000 per car and the max payout per car was $7,500 if I remember, where did the $17,500 go?


23 posted on 10/30/2009 7:24:07 AM PDT by ThomasThomas (I don't have time to Procrastinate)
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To: FromLori
The King Has No Freakin Clothes!!!!!

Go get’em Edmunds!

These arrogant Marxist A**HOLES are pissing everyone off!

24 posted on 10/30/2009 7:26:10 AM PDT by gathersnomoss (General George Patton had it right.)
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To: kittymyrib
BO does not have a single czar with a business background and it definitely shows in all these idiotic spending programs.

I would love to be able to demonstrate the lack of biz background on these czars...is there someplace that delineates their "experience"?

25 posted on 10/30/2009 7:27:11 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: DontTreadOnMe2009

The proof is in the Q4 numbers. Can anyone say Cash for Christmas?

Keep printing.....


26 posted on 10/30/2009 7:28:45 AM PDT by gathersnomoss (General George Patton had it right.)
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To: healy61
Obama needs to pick on someone his own size. He can try the little girls down the block selling kool-aid. What a dork.

I think some of the little girls in my neighborhood could and would take him on.

27 posted on 10/30/2009 7:30:35 AM PDT by ThomasThomas (I don't have time to Procrastinate)
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To: CodeToad

“He’ll try to blame Bush as being a skinny little muslim racist black kid from Kenya, he’s got no game himself.”

A breath of fresh air! Don’t stop! Thank you!


28 posted on 10/30/2009 7:30:35 AM PDT by gathersnomoss (General George Patton had it right.)
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To: DontTreadOnMe2009

Listening to Zero crow about the “recovery” on the news this am (I try to avoid listening to him whenever possible) I wondered what he will say when the numbers plummet again.

This is not over, not by a long shot. It is unsustainable. Ridiculous! It’s all politics to that bunch and it makes me want to vomit.


29 posted on 10/30/2009 7:30:54 AM PDT by GatorGirl (Eschew Socialism!)
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To: ThomasThomas
If the program cost $24,000 per car and the max payout per car was $7,500 if I remember, where did the $17,500 go?

What they mean is that only a small portion of the car sales were “stimulated” by CfC. Without that payout, those (few) sales would not have occurred. The vast majority of sales were to folks who would have bought soon anyhow, so the CfC money just sweetened the deal they already planned to make.

So, if you spread the cost of the program over the number of sales that would otherwise not have been made, it comes out to $24,000 per sale.

30 posted on 10/30/2009 7:31:14 AM PDT by Stegall Tx (Democrats: raising your taxes; cheating on theirs.)
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To: lost in the snow

“Large good which sales are often tied to house sales, ( new appliances and such) should also see a dip.”

There will be a Cash For Appliances program.

This SHIT has to stop!


31 posted on 10/30/2009 7:35:39 AM PDT by gathersnomoss (General George Patton had it right.)
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To: FromLori

The clunker seller can expect a “nice” tax bill???


32 posted on 10/30/2009 7:38:26 AM PDT by danamco
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To: sausageseller; all the best; FromLori

It seems exactly like Hugh Chavez. Every slight must be responded to in the most heavy-handed manner they can get away with.


33 posted on 10/30/2009 7:39:32 AM PDT by GeronL (http://tyrannysentinel.blogspot.com .... I am a rogue nobody. One of millions.)
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To: ThomasThomas

Cars that would have sold anyway, without the govt funds.

Plus Overhead... who knows?


34 posted on 10/30/2009 7:42:06 AM PDT by GeronL (http://tyrannysentinel.blogspot.com .... I am a rogue nobody. One of millions.)
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To: gathersnomoss

There already is a Cash for Appliances program, its “Energy Star” appliances and its much smaller than the car and house things.


35 posted on 10/30/2009 7:43:25 AM PDT by GeronL (http://tyrannysentinel.blogspot.com .... I am a rogue nobody. One of millions.)
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To: ThomasThomas

Total $$ of incentives)/(incremental car sales over those that would have been bought without the incentive)

In other words, people who were going to buy a car without any incentive received an incentive even though they were going to buy a new car anyway. Those $$ did nothing to increase car sales.

The cost of a real brought forward car purchase is a major multiple of the incentive plus it takes sales from the next quarter. Most sales people know that end of quarter discounts mean that they are going to be behind the 8 ball in the first month or so of the next quarter. Incentives only work where there is significant pent up demand and/or there is a possibility of shifting the entire demand curve to the right.

The presumed goal was to drive sales to more efficient vehicles. However, the savings from increased fuel efficiency of a newer vehicle are of marginal value. For someone driving 12000 miles per year, the difference between 20 and 30 mpg amounts to 200 gallons of gas per year or between $400 and $600. Taxes on a new $15000 car in Massachusetts are $750 plus the increase in excise taxes plus immediate 30% depreciation!! People are not as stupid as the government “experts” think we are.

N.B. Note that if you drove more miles per year the savings would be greater -— BUT you would probably have to buy a reliable car sooner anyway.

I have a rule of thumb that 10% of any population are really gullible (higher if you are a greenie). The Edmund’s analysis indicates that I am just about right.

This is another really, really stupid “green inspired” policy. I am betting that the suckers (i.e., those lured into buying a vehicle by the incentive) were primarily tree-huggers.


36 posted on 10/30/2009 8:00:54 AM PDT by bjc (Check the data!!)
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To: FromLori
One question about this blog attack:

Will THIS? meet staNDIng requirments for BO Eligibility suits ??

...Let's make it a viral kind of question.....

37 posted on 10/30/2009 8:13:09 AM PDT by urtax$@work (The best kind of memorial is a Burning Memorial.........)
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To: FromLori

I guess if you ran an op-ed mildy critical of Barry in the Eephus County Farmer’s Reporter, Pennysaver and Gazette, that someone in the White House war room is going to find it and start unloading on you.

I predict this is going to backfire big-time. Americans have no stomach for petty political bullying 24/7/365.


38 posted on 10/30/2009 8:14:10 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: FromLori

what’s Kelly’s say?

used Obama presidency worth about jackshite..


39 posted on 10/30/2009 8:15:01 AM PDT by wardaddy (folks, these freepathons are taking too long tightwads, shame on us in front of the kooks)
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To: lost in the snow

WSJ: IRS Examining Many Suspicious First-Time Homebuyer Tax Credit Claims

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2366271/posts

Tying it Together: Massive, Pernicious Fraud
The entire finance and real-estate “industry” is filled with massive, pernicious fraud, and we now have only one question remaining - will The Government do its lawful and mandated job, that of prosecuting the bad actors, or has it joined with the fraudsters, become one with them, and thus, declare itself as a gang of mobsters rather than a legitimate government? The latter, of course will beg only the question of what should be an ordinary American’s response.
http://market-ticker.org/archives/1514-Tying-It-Together-Massive,-Pernicious-Fraud.html
Four-Year Old Buys House With Federal Money
http://www.businessinsider.com/four-year-old-buys-a-house-with-stimulus-money-2009-10
$35 Billion Slated for Local Housing
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125409967771945213.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us
Well-Heeled Abuse Shelter Implicated in NYC Housing Scam
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/roberts/091022


40 posted on 10/30/2009 8:46:05 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (ACORN:American Corruption for Obama Right Now)
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To: gathersnomoss

The $1500 eco-fridge will become the $3000-5000 dollar taxpayer subsisdized eco-fridge.


41 posted on 10/30/2009 8:49:59 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (ACORN:American Corruption for Obama Right Now)
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To: GeronL

Lashing out is the shitcago way. Chicago has always been a crooked den of snakes and previouysly Americans had enough good sense to not allow the machine to spread further than IL.


42 posted on 10/30/2009 8:51:51 AM PDT by dusttoyou (libs are all wee wee'd up and no place to go)
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To: FromLori
I get Glenn Beck being on the White House shit list but Edmonds automotive? This shows me 0bama is squandering my tax dollars on useless White House staff. Who have no real work to do
43 posted on 10/30/2009 8:57:29 AM PDT by dennisw (Obama -- our very own loopy, leftist god-thing.)
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To: brownsfan
But they never learn. The Republicans, once in power, will behave as badly as the Democrats are now.

That's why we need to follow the NY23 lead and vote for the conservatives, regardless of what party they are in. Work our tails off trying to get conservatives nominated instead of RINOs, otherwise we will be no better off, this is apparent in the mouthings of McCain, Romney, Snow and the like. They want the same thing Bozo wants: The subjugation of the American people.

44 posted on 10/30/2009 9:41:17 AM PDT by calex59 (We want our constitution back, and we will get it back.)
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To: FromLori

The Obama administration showing us that it knows as much about the US auto industry as it does about running the country. Nada, nil, zilch - SQUAT!


45 posted on 10/30/2009 9:48:17 AM PDT by paulcissa (The first requirement of Liberalism is to stand on your head and tell the world they're upside down)
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To: FromLori

It’s way worse than that. Ignore all the gas crap and just look at how the stupid car buyer got taken to the cleaners:

If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you get $4500 off for an apparent “savings” of $1000.

However, you have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th (something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500.

So, rather than save $1000, you actually pay an extra $350 to the Feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, that was costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making.

But wait; it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer. For example, every dealer here in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all the goodies, including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500 the month before the “cash for clunkers” program started.

When “cash for clunkers” came along, they stopped discounting them and instead sold them at the list price of $15,500. So, you paid $3000 more than you would have the month before... (Honda, Toyota, and Kia played the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did).

So let’s do the final tally here:

You traded in a car worth: $3500
You got a discount of: $4500


Net so far +$1000
But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500

Net so far: -$350
And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling for the month before

Net -$3350

We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, etc.) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the 5 years of interest on the car loan, but let’s just stop here.

So who actually made out on the deal? The feds collected taxes on the car along with taxes on the $4500 they “gave” you. The car dealers made an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks from the manufacturers and the loan companies. The manufacturers got to dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. And the poor, stupid consumer maybe got saddled with even more debt that they cannot afford.

Obama and his band of merry men convinced Joe consumer that he was getting $4500 in “free” money from the “government” when in fact, Joe was giving away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the privilege.

Think this was stupid for those who were crazy enough to swallow this wonderful scheme?

Just wait until we get health care with no additional costs over what most of us now pay for health insurance and the best medical care in the world. Think that scheme might be designed by the same people who came up with “Cash for Clunkers?”


46 posted on 10/30/2009 10:54:43 AM PDT by robjna
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To: Buckeye McFrog

*I guess if you ran an op-ed mildy critical of Barry in the Eephus County Farmer’s Reporter, Pennysaver and Gazette, that someone in the White House war room is going to find it and start unloading on you.

I predict this is going to backfire big-time. Americans have no stomach for petty political bullying 24/7/365*

Yet, this is the same course of action many here suggested that the previous administration should take in regards to its critics.


47 posted on 10/30/2009 11:21:22 AM PDT by j-damn
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