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Divers find Caesar bust that may date to 46 B.C.
AP on Yahoo ^ | 5/13/08 | AP

Posted on 05/13/2008 6:41:24 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

PARIS - Divers trained in archaeology discovered a marble bust of an aging Caesar in the Rhone River that France's Culture Ministry said Tuesday could be the oldest known.

The life-sized bust showing the Roman ruler with wrinkles and hollows in his face is tentatively dated to 46 B.C. Divers uncovered the Caesar bust and a collection of other finds in the Rhone near the town of Arles — founded by Caesar.

Among other items in the treasure trove of ancient objects is a 5.9 foot marble statue of Neptune, dated to the first decade of the third century after Christ.

Two smaller statues, both in bronze and measuring 27.5 inches each also were found, one of them, a satyr with his hands tied behind his back, "doubtless" originated in Hellenic Greece, the ministry said.

"Some (of the discoveries) are unique in Europe," Culture Minister Christine Albanel said. The bust of Caesar is in a class by itself.

"This marble bust of the founder of the Roman city of Arles constitutes the most ancient representation known today of Caesar," the ministry statement said, adding that it "undoubtedly" dates to the creation of Arles in 46 B.C.

Among other things, researchers are trying to uncover "in what context these statues were thrown into the river," said Michel L'Hour, who heads the Department of Subaquatic Archaeological Research, whose divers made the discovery between September and October 2007.

The site "has barely been skimmed," L'Hour told The Associated Press, adding that a new search operation will begin this summer.

He said the Arles region, in the Provence region of southern France, with its Roman beginnings, and the Rhone are "propitious" for discoveries.

Albanel called the find "exceptional" and said that the Caesar bust is "the oldest representation known today" of the emperor.

Divers also found a huge marble statue of Neptune, dated from the third century.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bust; caesar; divers; godsgravesglyphs
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To: Lijahsbubbe

Here’s a skeptic:

http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/2008/05/the-face-of-jul.html


81 posted on 05/15/2008 9:18:34 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: allmendream

Caligula’s horse wasn’t made a Senator.

The Roman system was all about separation of powers, and that was rooted in the oligarchic nature of the “Republic”. The Senators weren’t elected, so they established or altered various other popular bodies to meet some expediency. The Emperor had dictator-for-life powers, but the Senate controlled legislation.

The Emperor Claudius revived the pre-imperial office of Censor in order to remove unfit Senators from office. That the office had lapsed indicates just how out of control the senatorial oligarchy had become. They were, in Voltaire’s phrase, an assembly of despots.

The Senate didn’t always appoint the Emperors, sometimes it merely put its imprimatur on a fait accompli, such as when crazy or otherwise ineffective Emperors were deposed / murdered, for example when the Praetorian Guard (which was established by the Senate) snuffed Caligula and the famous and probably false “found me hiding behind the curtain” selection of Claudius occurred. But the authority to appoint Emperors lay with the Senate.

Claudius was one of the more conscientious Emperors. If the Empire had figured out an orderly system of succession (for that matter, if the so-called Republic had), the great duration of it might have been even longer. Had the Empire — which began over a century before Julius Caesar was born — developed an elective system of government, it might still be around today.


82 posted on 05/15/2008 9:49:50 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
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To: SunkenCiv
The problem wasn't just “orderly succession”; it was that there was any succession at all for a “Dictator for Life”/ “Emperor”/ “First Citizen”. Ancestry is a piss poor way of determining who will be leader, and a lifetime appointment to absolute power is a rather bad policy for many reasons.

I think any sane person would rather live under the rule of two elected Consuls and the Senate. Although election was a mixed blessing. One Consul decided to try to “force” a military victory against Hannibal Barca in order to ensure an electoral victory. It was a bad mistake. Military campaigns shouldn't be run with an election timetable/ political concerns in mind.

83 posted on 05/15/2008 10:09:24 AM PDT by allmendream (Life begins at the moment of contraception. ;))
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To: allmendream
I think any sane person would rather live under the rule of two elected Consuls and the Senate.
The unelected Senate was made up entirely of people who literally owned nearly all the land in Italy, and that was the source of their great wealth and power. Half or (often) more of the people living under the so-called Roman Republic were slaves, most of whom were owned by the same patrician families who owned all the land.

The Senators regarded everyone else -- slaves, freedmen, and plain citizens -- as inferiors to be ruled by the great and glorious patrician families. I don't call wanting to live under an assembly of despots and a couple of window-dressing Consuls a form of sanity, I call it living in a fantasy world to equate what the "Roman Republic" was to what we have due to the Framers. I think any sane person would prefer to live here and now.
84 posted on 05/15/2008 10:21:15 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
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To: SunkenCiv
I thought implicit in that statement, considering the two systems we were comparing, was that “rather” referred to the Imperial system. Of course our system is preferable to any other ever devised by men.

In other words my statement was meant to be read as... “I think any sane person would rather live under the rule of two elected Consuls and the Senate than the absolute rule for life of an Emperor”.

The same social stratification existed under the Emperor that existed under the Consuls. The Emperor played lip service to the masses because they, and the Praetorian Guard, usually determined the length of his reign. So rather than being accountable to an electorate like the Consuls, he was accountable to the mob. As witnessed by the “Bread and Circuses”, accountability to the mob was a step down from accountability to those who have a financial stake in the order and stability of the Empire.

85 posted on 05/15/2008 10:28:59 AM PDT by allmendream (Life begins at the moment of contraception. ;))
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To: Hodar

They never did find out who Noah’s wife was.


86 posted on 05/15/2008 10:41:03 AM PDT by Stonewall Jackson (Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory. - George Patton)
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To: aculeus

The find is just so cool, I’m hoping they’re not incorrect!


87 posted on 05/15/2008 2:43:26 PM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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