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Neanderthals 'Were Ahead Of Their Time'
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 6-15-2007

Posted on 06/14/2007 5:56:19 PM PDT by blam

Neanderthals 'were ahead of their time'

Last Updated: 2:42am BST 14/06/2007

Big, brutish and stupid - it's a commonly held view that our prehistoric predecessors were as wild and unsophisticated as the animals they hunted.

Neanderthal man was 'as smart as we are'

But Neanderthal man was not as slow-witted as he looked and was in reality as smart as we are, an archaeologist claims.

They were actually innovators who used different forms of tools to adapt to the ecological challenges posed by harsh habitats as they spread through Europe. Although our ancestors have become the butt of jokes about people who are stupid or unenlightened, they were years ahead of their time.

Dr Terry Hopkinson, of Leicester University, said Neanderthals were far from behaviourally static and incorporated different forms of tool construction into a single technique.

He said: "There has been a consensus that the modern human mind turned on like a light switch about 50,000 years ago, only in Africa."

But the modern traits accompanying the change such as abstract art, the use of grindstones and elongated stone blades, and big-game hunting began to accumulate in Africa from 300,000 years ago.

Archaeological finds from across Europe also show the Neanderthals fused two forms of tool-making called the faconnage and the debitage techniques. Neanderthals had previously been thought of as incapable of innovation, said Dr Hopkinson, as it was assumed to be something unique to Homo sapiens.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: brutish; godsgravesglyphs; neandertal; neanderthals; smart; sophisticated
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Brain size correlates to IQ. Neanderthals had bigger brains the we do.

MITOCHONDRIA, ARCHAEOLOGY AND MIGRATIONS

1 posted on 06/14/2007 5:56:20 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
GGG Ping.
2 posted on 06/14/2007 5:56:50 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

“Brain size correlates to IQ. Neanderthals had bigger brains the we do.”

If that were true, whales would be the most intelligent creatures on earth.


3 posted on 06/14/2007 5:58:52 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: blam

I’m reminded of Paul Reiser’s joke about Neanderthals in heaven, groaning that the one doofus in the tribe was the one the archeologists dug up: “And guess who they base our whole civilization on! Howie! Remember him, that loser? With the bad teeth, and the stoop, and that huge unibrow? Aw jeez...”


4 posted on 06/14/2007 6:03:55 PM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
"If that were true, whales would be the most intelligent creatures on earth."

Maybe you're not smart enough to recognize that they are?

5 posted on 06/14/2007 6:04:14 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Next question,

If “Neanderthals” were stronger and smarter than we, Why are we the survivors?


6 posted on 06/14/2007 6:04:17 PM PDT by labette
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Necessary to adjust that to apply only to primate brains. Whales are pretty stupid when you get right down to it and their brains are constructed differently.


7 posted on 06/14/2007 6:06:05 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: labette
"If “Neanderthals” were stronger and smarter than we, Why are we the survivors?"

Last Glacial Maximum?

8 posted on 06/14/2007 6:06:38 PM PDT by blam
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To: labette
If “Neanderthals” were stronger and smarter than we, Why are we the survivors?

We have better looking women.

9 posted on 06/14/2007 6:12:50 PM PDT by gotribe ( I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution... - Grover Cleveland.)
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To: blam

Do you know if they used throwing sticks to enhance the effectiveness of their spears?


10 posted on 06/14/2007 6:14:39 PM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: blam

Im stupid not
11 posted on 06/14/2007 6:16:14 PM PDT by MaxMax (God Bless America)
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To: blam
Brain size correlates to IQ. Neanderthals had bigger brains the we do.

Accomplishment correlates better to IQ. Neanderthal flint tools never progressed. They remained extremely crude, while homosapien tools evolved into finer and finer instruments.

12 posted on 06/14/2007 6:16:56 PM PDT by SampleMan (Islamic tolerance is practiced by killing you last.)
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To: blam

“Although our ancestors”
I thought I’d read numerous times from several different sources that Neanderthals share no common DNA with modern Humans...has this changed recently?


13 posted on 06/14/2007 6:22:10 PM PDT by sinwisher
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To: blam
...Neanderthals had previously been thought of as incapable of innovation, said Dr Hopkinson, as it was assumed to be something unique to Homo sapiens...

We all know what happens when you assume. Anyway, it's only a matter of time before we recognize Neanderthal men as "men".

14 posted on 06/14/2007 6:27:23 PM PDT by KMJames (Hyperbole is killing us.)
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To: blam

So, where are they?


15 posted on 06/14/2007 6:27:49 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (When's MY turn? What crimes may I commit and recieve amnesty for?)
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To: blam
Neanderthal man was 'as smart as we are'

Then why didnt he invent the IPOD?

16 posted on 06/14/2007 6:31:41 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

Here's one being interviewed!

17 posted on 06/14/2007 6:33:11 PM PDT by paul in cape
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: blam

So, they really did invent roast duck with mango salsa?


19 posted on 06/14/2007 6:33:35 PM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: paul in cape

lol


20 posted on 06/14/2007 6:36:27 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (When's MY turn? What crimes may I commit and recieve amnesty for?)
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To: blam
Way ahead of their time.

They welcomed the homo sapiens into their country assuming they would want to assimilate.

The rest is, as they say, history.

21 posted on 06/14/2007 6:37:28 PM PDT by Do Be (The heart is smarter than the head.)
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To: blam
Neuron density is supposed to correlate to intelligence, not brain size.

Isn't the mainstream Macroevolutionist view that Neanderthals aren't ancestors of humans (including Europeans) today, and that modern humans are completely homo sapiens?

22 posted on 06/14/2007 6:39:47 PM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: muawiyah
Actually, it's supposed to be brain to body ratio.

However, see earlier post, the current idea is that it is neuron density rather than brain size which determines intelligence. (or it's brain cell density--it's density of some sort--going to look....).

23 posted on 06/14/2007 6:42:49 PM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: labette


If “Neanderthals” were stronger and smarter than we, Why are we the survivors?


My guess is trickery and treachery

24 posted on 06/14/2007 6:44:40 PM PDT by grjr21
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

Seems to be both general brain density (brain cells) and neuron density.


25 posted on 06/14/2007 6:44:49 PM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: Psycho_Bunny
"So, where are they?"

They are us.

Interbreeding of Neanderthals and modern humans without transmission of Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA: effect of mating preferences

If male Neanderthals mated with female modern humans the offspring would have inherited mitochondrial DNA only from the female modern humans.

This mating was more likely than the mating of male modern humans with female Neanderthals because of the preference of human males for gracile females. It was also more likely because of the preference of human females for robust males.

The mating of a female Neanderthal with a modern human male was unlikely because she would find him gracile and he would find her robust.

If the mating preferences of Neanderthals were similar to those of modern humans, which are well documented, the sequencing of mitochondrial DNA from Neanderthal fossil bone will not indicate whether Neanderthals and modern humans did or did not interbreed. The work of M. Krings et al, for example, shows only that female Neanderthals did not mate very often with male modern humans.

References: Krings, M. et al. Cell 90, 19-30 (1997).

Ward, R. & Stringer, C. Nature 388, 225-226 (1997).

Published 21 January 2000. © Andrew Gyles

26 posted on 06/14/2007 6:44:56 PM PDT by blam
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

Density ~ as in “Belgium is the most densely populated country in Europe” ~ which, in French, cutely comes across as “the Belgian people are really stupid”.


27 posted on 06/14/2007 6:46:22 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: KMJames
Homo neanderthalis. They were men.
28 posted on 06/14/2007 6:48:07 PM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
If that were true, whales would be the most intelligent creatures on earth.

The things we could learn if we were only smart enough to understand them....

29 posted on 06/14/2007 6:48:54 PM PDT by Hacksaw (Appalachian by the grace of God! Montani Semper Liberi)
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To: labette
If “Neanderthals” were stronger and smarter than we, Why are we the survivors?

I'm not sure, but Christopher Columbus ant the Crusades are probably to blame.

30 posted on 06/14/2007 6:52:13 PM PDT by Hacksaw (Appalachian by the grace of God! Montani Semper Liberi)
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To: blam

Does this mean the Geico cavemen are going to finally end their boycott?


31 posted on 06/14/2007 6:53:30 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: blam

I will believe that when I see a whale walk on the moon.


32 posted on 06/14/2007 6:54:46 PM PDT by U S Army EOD
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To: Do Be

Bwhahaha. Good one!


33 posted on 06/14/2007 6:54:50 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: blam

Yes....I was being flippant.


34 posted on 06/14/2007 6:55:37 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (When's MY turn? What crimes may I commit and recieve amnesty for?)
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To: blam
But Neanderthal man was not as slow-witted as he looked and was in reality as smart as we are, an archaeologist claims.

*...as slow-witted as he looked*???????

And how do we know what they looked like? Those stupid artists renditions? That's real reliable.

35 posted on 06/14/2007 6:56:18 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: labette

Details, details....


36 posted on 06/14/2007 6:56:43 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

All cats are Felines but no one would assert that a tiger is a tabby.


37 posted on 06/14/2007 6:57:01 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: blam

This research makes sense to me. I’ve just never been attracted to neanderthal women myself.


38 posted on 06/14/2007 6:57:12 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: blam

Lynndie England: the missing link between neanderthals and modern man?

39 posted on 06/14/2007 7:00:55 PM PDT by Michael A. Velli (Romney / Hunter '08!)
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To: labette
If “Neanderthals” were stronger and smarter than we, Why are we the survivors?

They forecast the creation of the 17th Amendment, and the inevitable result?

40 posted on 06/14/2007 7:01:42 PM PDT by Clint Williams (Read Roto-Reuters -- we're the spinmeisters!)
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To: metmom
"And how do we know what they looked like? Those stupid artists renditions? That's real reliable. "

This is a reconstructed face from what is believed to be a Neanderthal - Modern Human hybrid. (Re-constructed from a skull/skeleton found in Portugal)

41 posted on 06/14/2007 7:16:28 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

They died out because Europe got too cold for bananas to grow.


42 posted on 06/14/2007 7:23:21 PM PDT by rickdylan
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To: U S Army EOD

Why am I reminded of this story?

43 posted on 06/14/2007 7:25:00 PM PDT by StACase
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To: labette
If “Neanderthals” were stronger and smarter than we, Why are we the survivors?

We are meaner and nastier, and hold grudges longer? Plus we breed like rats under most circumstances.

44 posted on 06/14/2007 7:30:27 PM PDT by El Gato (The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: blam
So easy, a scientist could do it.

Scientists are what...schmart?

45 posted on 06/14/2007 7:32:03 PM PDT by Sender (I know I left my country around here somewhere. Reward if found.)
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To: blam
The mating of a female Neanderthal with a modern human male was unlikely because she would find him gracile and he would find her robust.

This theory only works if beer was not yet invented.

46 posted on 06/14/2007 7:43:13 PM PDT by Maynerd (Bush is the Herbert Hoover of border security)
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To: labette

>If “Neanderthals” were stronger and smarter than we, Why are we the survivors?<

Poor immigration laws?


47 posted on 06/14/2007 8:03:58 PM PDT by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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I just had to ask....


48 posted on 06/14/2007 8:15:12 PM PDT by labette
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To: Blood of Tyrants
If that were true, whales would be the most intelligent creatures on earth.

perhaps they are...

49 posted on 06/14/2007 8:23:25 PM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: blam
Neanderthals had bigger brains the we do
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Speak for yourself sapiens.

50 posted on 06/14/2007 8:33:16 PM PDT by suffering_fools
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