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Yikes....

Where is the good ol Reagan optimism when you need it?

1 posted on 08/09/2006 10:12:17 AM PDT by isaiah55version11_0
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To: isaiah55version11_0

"The horror....the horror!"

2 posted on 08/09/2006 10:15:07 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: isaiah55version11_0

Good gosh, buck up man. The nation has faced and overcome tougher times and adversaries than these and prevailed.


3 posted on 08/09/2006 10:17:05 AM PDT by MikeA (Not voting out of anger in November is a vote for Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House)
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To: isaiah55version11_0

Good grief. Doom and gloom. He must spend too much time reading the NY Times.


4 posted on 08/09/2006 10:17:52 AM PDT by pissant
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To: isaiah55version11_0
Yet our domestic divisions, and our inability to pacify Iraq have largely (although not, I believe, entirely) canceled out the deterrent message of the invasion.

A very blunt and honest analysis. It seems correct to conclude that the momentum and resolve of the US in the war on terror has waned since we toppled Saddam. Truth be told, I think Bush has gone limp on the entire effort.

5 posted on 08/09/2006 10:18:43 AM PDT by My2Cents (A pirate's life for me.)
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To: isaiah55version11_0
While an optimist, Reagan was also a realist.

He knoew the only way to defeat International Communism was through power. However, THAT foe was relatively reasonable and held a worldview of generally peaceful coexistence. Mostly the Russians just wanted what we all want, peace and freedom to enjoy life and family.

Our new enemy wants nothing less than our subservience or our death.

6 posted on 08/09/2006 10:20:02 AM PDT by Mariner
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To: isaiah55version11_0
We're all gonna die!!!!

10 posted on 08/09/2006 10:25:07 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Islam is a perversion of faith, a lie against human spirit, an obscenity shouted in the face of G_d)
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To: isaiah55version11_0
More hysteric whining and hand wringing for the Know Nothings. Would be nice if they are going to waste our time they at LEAST have a grasp of reality.

Counter Terrorism is NOT Conventional Military Operations. To try and force the 1st into the form of the 2nd is idiotic. "Gloomy Hawk" Panic stricken Chicken Sh%^ would be more accurate
12 posted on 08/09/2006 10:27:55 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (A proportionate response would be the indiscriminate slaughter of Western journalists)
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To: isaiah55version11_0
Yikes indeed. How about this quote from NRO's The Corner by everyone's favorite Squidward, I mean pessimist, John Derbyshire (posted 8/9/06):

Stanley Kurtz ROCKS. If you didn't read his "Hawkish Gloom" piece on yesterday's NRO (from which all the above quotes are taken), go read it now. Then, read it again. Read the links too.

Stanley's notion of the Israelization of the West — the slow change of opinion here from deep dove-hawk, lib-con differences to a glum, grim, pessimistic consensus, is spot on.

I only wonder — as of course I would — if Stanley is gloomy enough. There is a nightmare here, lurking just out of sight behind all the thoughts and articles of the gloomy-cons. The nightmare is so appalling to any civilized person I cannot bring myself to mention it. I'll just call it the g-word. Us or them. Please may it not come to that. I need a cup of coffee.

It's coming up on five years since 9/11: Iran, Syria, and North Korea are still out there. Lots of people want to see the U.S. fail. It could be a long, hard war for years to come.

13 posted on 08/09/2006 10:28:00 AM PDT by Tancred
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To: isaiah55version11_0
Where is the good ol Reagan optimism when you need it?

Reagan 'optimism' decided to get out of Lebanon.

The best thing to be said about Lebanon since is that it hasn't been our troops in the middle of that mess, let's keep it that way.

14 posted on 08/09/2006 10:28:07 AM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: isaiah55version11_0
"As such, it is unlikely to be bombed out of existence."

Wrong.

One simply has to bomb until one has killed a massive portion of the Lebanese people. They are very hard headed, but if they are dead, they will no longer be a problem for us or Israel. If our positions were reversed, they would kill all of us in a heartbeat, therefore, we need to be at least as ruthless as they are to defeat them.
16 posted on 08/09/2006 10:30:37 AM PDT by Ninian Dryhope ("Bush lied, people dyed. Their fingers." The inestimable Mark Steyn)
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To: isaiah55version11_0
"The West is on a collision course with Iran."

The West, or at least the non-decadent part of it, the USA, is on a collision course with militant Islam. If we do not wipe them out, they will enslave us.
19 posted on 08/09/2006 10:35:42 AM PDT by Ninian Dryhope ("Bush lied, people dyed. Their fingers." The inestimable Mark Steyn)
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To: isaiah55version11_0
Call me a gloomy hawk. It’s not just that I’m a hawk who’s disappointed with the course of fighting in the Middle East. My concern is that our underlying foreign-policy dilemma calls for both hawkishness and gloom — and will for some time. The two worst-case scenarios are world-war abroad and nuclear terror at home.

Put me down as a vote for embarking on the former, with a view toward persuading any and all parties interested in bringing the latter to us that such would be a terminally unwise move on their part.

23 posted on 08/09/2006 10:51:03 AM PDT by RichInOC (The United States Armed Forces...MOVING 'ZIG' FOR GREAT JUSTICE since 1775.)
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To: isaiah55version11_0
I've lately come to the conclusion that this is going to end only when the Israelis light up the Middle East with their arsenal of nuclear weapons, either because they've been hit with a nuclear bomb or are certain they are about to be. The only question is whether millions will die, tens of millions will die, or hundreds of millions will die, and that's going to be up to the Israelis and may depend on how many Israeli's die first. And I do have some morbid curiosity about whether a post-nuking of Mecca Islam will turn introspective and peaceful, like Judaism largely did after the destruction of the Temple, will die out from disillusion, or whether they'll carry on as they do now.

Why such pessimism? Because nobody wants to stop Iran from getting nukes. Once that happens, it's only a matter of when, not if, nuclear weapons get used in anger again. And I think the United States must declare (A) that it still follows the MAD doctrine and will utterly destroy any nation that uses nuclear weapons on the US (whether the distruction is "mutual" or not and will not use a "proportional" response) and (B) that any and all state sponsors of terrorism (including North Korea, Iran, and Syria) will be considered resopnsible for any nuclear weapons used by terrorists and will be the recipients of the above-mentioned MAD response if a terrorist uses a nuclear weapon on the United States or a close ally (e.g., NATO, Israel, Japan). And if China or Russia fuss, tell them that we'll still have plenty of nukes left over to ask them if it's worth destroying their country, too, over. If the world really wanted to stop this, they'd put Iran's president down like the mad dog that he is.

24 posted on 08/09/2006 10:51:26 AM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: isaiah55version11_0
Meanwhile, short of a preemptive war, Iran is bound to get the bomb. No grand bargain or set of economic sanctions can deter it — especially now that Iran is convinced of its success in creating havoc for the West, and in consolidating popular support through its proxy attacks on Western interests. As Ian Bremmer reports in “What the Israeli-Hezbollah War Means for Iran,”

Iran is convinced it’s winning, while America and Europe are increasingly convinced that a nuclear-armed Iran would be an intolerable danger to their interests. “Imagine...how much more dangerous the war in Lebanon would be if Iran had a nuclear weapon.”

Collision Course

The West is on a collision course with Iran. There will either be a preemptive war against Iran’s nuclear program, or an endless series of hot-and-cold war crises following Iran’s acquisition of a bomb. And an Iranian bomb means further nuclear proliferation to Egypt and Saudi Arabia, as a balancing move by the big Sunni states. With all those Islamic bombs floating around, what are the chances the U.S. will avoid a nuclear terrorist strike over the long-term?

Until there actually is a preemptive war against Iran to prevent it from getting nukes, Iran is winning. If the Democrats are allowed to take control of either the House or Senate in November, Iran will certainly win.

26 posted on 08/09/2006 10:58:17 AM PDT by Invisible Gorilla
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To: groovejedi

bump for later read


27 posted on 08/09/2006 11:44:15 AM PDT by groovejedi
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To: isaiah55version11_0
Yep, been saying all that, and it is right. Except he retains a few unwarranted threads of mere wishful thinking, like this one -

"This is why Europe, led by France, is moving into the American corner."

Dream on. It may have been drifting that way before Iran consciously played the anti-Zionism card, but now that it has every politician in France to scrambling to put daylight between himself and those warmongering Jew loving Americans. Ahmadjehad is playing them like a fiddle, and they scream anti-Americanism whenever he wants them to.

"The internal Islamist terror Europe had hoped to avoid by distancing itself from the United States is happening anyway."

It always was, and it was and remains just another reason for that distancing.

"And Europe fears that a terrorist-supplied Iranian bomb"

Nah, Merkel and Blair say so but in the end they would much rather beat up Israel. Iran they have been begging for meaningless lies and raising their bid continually, and can't understand why Ahmadjehad doesn't let them off and take the money. Because, dum-kopfs, humiliating you is worth more to him than your money. He can get all the money he needs from the oil markets. In the end the EU will settle for meaningless sanctions.

The cheery bit that he leaves out is that the hawks have staked out for themselves the only viable long run policy, and they've been roundly condemned and castigated for it, and it will not be implemented. "If you give advice to a prince, and it not being taken disaster follows, you will reap great glory" - said Machiavelli.

The left and the appeasers are going to get their fondest wish. They are going to get power and they are going to get to appease the terrorists. And it isn't going to work at all.

Then someone will be sitting pretty politically. Granted, the country will be in the crapper, and western civilization with it. But the blame, and the credit! Ah, those are the real stakes aren't they?

We are all fools...

28 posted on 08/09/2006 8:01:26 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: isaiah55version11_0
re: If liberals are lost in wishful thinking about the prospects)))

I don't believe this--rather, I think they are utterly cyncial and know full well their ideology can't work. They just think this position will put them back in power.

29 posted on 08/09/2006 8:06:25 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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