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Bill would bar doctors from asking about guns POLL TO FREEP AT LINK
The Virginian-Pilot ^ | February 23, 2006 | By JANETTE RODRIGUES,

Posted on 02/23/2006 6:47:11 AM PST by SWO

CHESAPEAKE - A pediatrician who asks a child's parent about firearms in their home could lose his or her license or be disciplined under legislation being considered by a Senate committee today.

The bill would prohibit health care professionals from asking a patient about gun possession, ownership or storage unless the patient is being treated for an injury related to guns or asks for safety counseling about them.

Sponsored by Del. Ward Armstrong, D-Martinsville, the bill sailed through the House by a vote of 88 to 11 last week. A message seeking comment was left for the delegate; he did not return the call.

The legislation is opposed by The Virginia Chapter of the American Academy of Pediatrics because it blocks a common practice by medical professionals to inquire about gun ownership and safety when they go over a safety checklist with parents during a child's regular checkups from birth to puberty.

"We saw the bill but presumed no one in their right mind would put it through," said Dr. Leslie Ellwood, chapter president. "We thought it was such an unusual bill that anyone with common sense wouldn't pass it."

The national group is closely watching the bill now.

Some local medical professionals are incensed by the bill and the rapid way it is moving through the General Assembly.

The bill also is opposed by several medical groups, including The Medic al Society of Virginia and nurse associations.

The National Rifle Association supports the bill because it will protect gun owners "from intrusive, unnecessary questions from medical professionals," according to the NRA Institute for Legislative Action Web site.

"We don't have an opinion or issue an opinion on guns," Ellwood said. "We don't say it is a bad thing to have around children. Our plan is always to find out how the guns are managed in the household so they are safe."

The national pediatric group puts out a guide on safety counseling for pediatricians under its injury prevention program.

The state-endorsed guidelines are used by not just doctors and nurses but by others whose jobs involve children.

Medical professionals are encouraged to use the routine safety survey to counsel parents about everything from car safety seats and child-proofing a house and backyard pool to bicycle helmets and fire safety once the child reaches the appropriate age.

Pediatricians use the checklist to curtail preventable injuries, such as poisoning by household cleaning products, not to be intrusive, say Virginia physicians.

"The bill hits at the heart and core of prevention and protecting our children," said Dr. Nancy Welch, Chesapeake Health Department director. "I am just amazed that it has gone this far and seems to be flying under the radar."

A board-certified pediatrician, Welch e-mailed three committee members from the South Hampton Roads delegation after being notified about the Senate committee meeting today.

Sen. Harry Blevins, R-Chesapeake, has a policy of giving each bill a fair hearing before commenting on it, said his legislative assistant, Karen Papasodora-Cochrane.

Sen. Frederick Quayle, R-Chesapeake could not be reached for comment.

Sen. L. Louise Lucas, D-Portsmouth, said she thinks it's a bad bill.

"I don't know how it even got out of the House because a person who is practicing the healing arts, if they really have a child's safety in mind, would ask that question and others," she said.

If parents think the question is intrusive, Lucas said they can always tell the health care provider: "It's none of your business."

THE POLL TO DATE:

Should the state disallow pediatricians from asking parents about gun ownership?

Yes 49.25%

No 48.88%

Undecided 1.88% Total: 800 votes

Reach Janette Rodrigues at (757) 222-5208 or janette.rodrigues@pilotonline.com.

© 2006 HamptonRoads.com/PilotOnline.com


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; bigbrother; freep; gungrabbers; poll; surveillance; vageneralassembly; virginia
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To: robertpaulsen

LOL
Fortunately, I don't feel that I need that form. My Doc knows what types of firearms I own. He is very qualified to lecture me on firearm safety. I would willingly trade all of my guns, including a family heirloom pump 12 gauge, for just the ones he has mentioned in passing. I would love to see his whole collection.


51 posted on 02/23/2006 8:10:16 AM PST by magslinger (Cry Havoc and let slip the yobos of war!)
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To: Hildy
I was asked this question several years ago for a routine pediatric visit. In front of my children I calmly and sweetly replied that if she would like to talk about my views of the second amendment we could do so over a cup of coffee, but today could she just practice medicine. I was never asked that question again.
52 posted on 02/23/2006 8:11:27 AM PST by tkas (Conservative mom)
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To: doc30
Who died and put doctors in charge of adults' gun safety proceedures? I missed the memo.

I want a doctor - not a nosey and condescending nanny. Doctors have enough of a superiority complex that causes a lot of problems for the medicine and public. We don't need to feed it for them. They tend to think too highly of themselves and too lowly of their patients.

The public should make doctors err on the side of respect given the profession's current trends towards control and the illusion of superiority that pushes them in that direction. It is easy to weed them out and worth the effort because in the end you have a physician that is truly worthy of respect as it is a mutual relationship. You need that relationship when faced with bad times. Some physicians today actually dislike and psychologically abuse their patients for being unhealthy. Some lower themselves to threatening patients with abandonment if they don't do as ordered. Better to find out who you are dealing with up front and see how their egos handle being told to mind their own business.
53 posted on 02/23/2006 8:12:37 AM PST by Galveston Grl (Getting angry and abandoning power to the Democrats is not a choice.)
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To: SWO
There are copies of "American Rifleman" "Field and Stream" and a couple othere magazines in my Doctor's waiting room.

If he asked me about guns it would be for my opinion on one he was considering buying.

54 posted on 02/23/2006 8:15:31 AM PST by Shanda
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To: SWO
The bill would prohibit health care professionals from asking a patient about gun possession, ownership or storage unless the patient is being treated for an injury related to guns or asks for safety counseling about them.

To be honest, I don't really see why government should get involved in the conversations between a doctor and patient.

If you feel that your doctor is too nosy, either tell him that you don't want to talk about such a subject, or get another doctor.

But a government mandate banning such a topic of discussion? That's even more intrusive, IMO.

There might be a very good reason why a doctor might suggest to a patient that they keep guns locked up. For example, what if the doctor knows that the patient has a child with mental problems? A good doctor would suggest increased steps to keep the guns out of the kid's hands.

55 posted on 02/23/2006 8:15:54 AM PST by Potowmack ("The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax." - Albert Einstein)
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To: doc30

Maybe they can change the way they approach the issue. Instead of asking, "Do you have guns?" what if they instead said, "And please remember, in the event you have guns, to handle them safely." I think that would go over better.


56 posted on 02/23/2006 8:16:46 AM PST by rudy45
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To: SWO

The real solution when a doc asks an irrelevant private question that will become part of your government file in the long run is to stand up and leave.


57 posted on 02/23/2006 8:18:24 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: Galveston Grl
Who said doctors would be put in charge of adult's gun safety procedures? No-one. People are paranoid like crazy that doctors are goin to be unwittingly part of some anti-gun conspiracy. They just want to provide information to parents to help keep their kids healthy. Prevention, in any medical area is far more powerful and far less expensive and risky than treating someone after the fact.

Going back to the article, the proposed law is an unconstitutional infringement of free speech. The legislature has no right to pass a law that restricts what people can talk about. Everyone on this thread is so worried about their losing 2nd amendment rights that they want take away other poeple's 1st amendment rights. It's disgusting!

58 posted on 02/23/2006 8:20:36 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: doc30
"As much as I despise gun control laws, I don't see a problem with this. The doctors aren't trying to be politically corect gun grabbers."

Since the origin of the question was with an anti-gun physicians group, they ARE "being politically incorrect", or accomplices to that.

If ANY physician ever asks me that question, I will tell them it's none of their damned business, immediately leave their office, and find another practicioner.

Thus far, no doctor ever has (my primary care physician has lots of "Outdoor Life" and similar hunting mags in his wating room).

59 posted on 02/23/2006 8:20:45 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: Shanda

Sounds like my Doc. See my post#51.


60 posted on 02/23/2006 8:21:14 AM PST by magslinger (Cry Havoc and let slip the yobos of war!)
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To: Wonder Warthog
Since the origin of the question was with an anti-gun physicians group, they ARE "being politically incorrect", or accomplices to that. If ANY physician ever asks me that question, I will tell them it's none of their damned business, immediately leave their office, and find another practicioner.

Even so, do you believe the government should restrict someone's first amendment rights like this? If they can do that, then they can restrict your second amendment rights as well. And your choice to walk away from a physician who ask such a question is exactly what people should do if they don't like it. They should not be going to the government for censorship.

61 posted on 02/23/2006 8:23:49 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: doc30
If he asks "Do you have guns?" and you say yes so he gives you a gun safety brochure, that's one thing. On the other hand if he marks it in his records for future reference by any insurance company or government official who digs through them, that's something else entirely.

When will the NRA be able to prescribe extra strength hydrocortisone for people who have itchy trigger fingers?

62 posted on 02/23/2006 8:25:46 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Next Olympics I want wide track bobsledding. Four sleds on the track at once - like Ben Hur on ice.)
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To: Potowmack

Government is involved. Once you answer the question, it is in your medical records. If insurance companies decide to look, it will be there. If government decides to look there, see Rush's case, they will.

Doctors have NO legitimate reason for asking this question as a screen. It is what is is known as a boundary violation. They can be taken to task for asking it. They do not have any expertise in the area and are unqualified (with some exceptions unrelated to their medical education) in the area to boot.

Robert Paulsen's post says it all!!!

DK


63 posted on 02/23/2006 8:28:41 AM PST by Dark Knight
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To: SWO
Freeped.

Currently, it's:

51.5% in favor of banning pediatricians from asking gun questions
46.4% against
2.0% undecided


64 posted on 02/23/2006 8:29:49 AM PST by TChris ("Unless you act, you're going to lose your world." - Mark Steyn)
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To: SWO
"...Our plan is always to find out how the guns are managed in the household so they are safe."

And this is any of your @&#* business because...?

65 posted on 02/23/2006 8:31:21 AM PST by TChris ("Unless you act, you're going to lose your world." - Mark Steyn)
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To: Dark Knight
Government is involved. Once you answer the question, it is in your medical records.

So don't answer the question.

66 posted on 02/23/2006 8:31:29 AM PST by Potowmack ("Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government")
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To: skinkinthegrass

"Hunting for Fido? :^) "

I call pics like that "Scenes from the feline revolution"

They're out to get us, I tell ya!


67 posted on 02/23/2006 8:34:03 AM PST by dynachrome ("Where am I? Where am I going? Why am I in a handbasket?")
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To: doc30

I agree with you that doctors should never be banned from saying anything by law. Patients, on the other hand, should not cooperate with doctors becomming nosey nannies. And whatever a patient tells the doctor, they should know it will most likely become a part of a computer system available for others to tap into and use against the patient's best interests.


68 posted on 02/23/2006 8:36:27 AM PST by Galveston Grl (Getting angry and abandoning power to the Democrats is not a choice.)
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To: lakeman

We don't have an opinion or issue an opinion on guns," Ellwood said. "We don't say it is a bad thing to have around children. Our plan is always to find out how the guns are managed in the household so they are safe."

in otherwords we just want to control what you have in your home. ""

Same thing we are being told about the NAIS animal registration:
"We are just trying to keep diseases out of the food chain..".
Since we don't eat dogs, cats, and horses and many other pets in this country, why do we need this? They also make you "register" your property as an animal location, which means they can come onto your property at any time without notice or reason and "check" on the welfare of your animals and see that you are taking care of them "properly".

I won't comply. Neither should you.


69 posted on 02/23/2006 8:38:08 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: Hildy
I always lie on these stupid forms. Last time they handed me one I said to her, "You know I always lie on these things." She just smiled at me.

So, no, no guns in my house and I *always* wear a bicycle helmet.

70 posted on 02/23/2006 8:39:41 AM PST by VeniVidiVici (What? Me worry?)
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To: jboot

Because to the questioning physician "why is that any of your business?" equals "Yes I do, and I keep them loaded". ""

The last time anyone got in my face about guns and whether I should have them, I told HIM to try coming onto my property after 8 PM without permission or notice and see IF I have guns and IF I would use them. He shut up as the bar full of men were laughing in his face. BTW- the same rules would apply at any time of day or night if I felt threatened.


71 posted on 02/23/2006 8:42:44 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: SWO

Ok Doc, in the interest of my child's safety, let me ask you a few questions.

Would you mind giving me your SSN and letting me see your driver's license? Just need to do a little criminal background check.

Would you please tell me about all of your malpractice cases? including those in which you or your insurance settled out of court?

We'd be interested in knowing your political leanings and any contributions you've made. We don't want one of Hillary's 'villagers' treating our child, don't you know?


72 posted on 02/23/2006 8:42:55 AM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: Potowmack

Government is involved. Once you answer the question, it is in your medical records.

So don't answer the question.<<

Didn't you get the memo...if you don't answer, the doc can mark it yes. It will still be in your records.

Without a law, you have no recourse.

DK


73 posted on 02/23/2006 8:43:43 AM PST by Dark Knight
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To: sarasota

By the doctors reaction, you'd think I opened a raincoat to show cut off pantlegs held up by rubber bands.


74 posted on 02/23/2006 8:47:43 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com ("If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth!")
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

LOL!


75 posted on 02/23/2006 8:48:40 AM PST by sarasota
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To: Designer

Looked like she was going to faint, but she held on.


76 posted on 02/23/2006 8:49:26 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com ("If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth!")
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To: SWO

Hmmm...perhaps the doctors should be asking:

Does your mother sleep with multiple partners?

Do your parents drink alchohol every day?

Do your parents smoke funny pipes or cigarettes that smell?

Does your Mom wear a seat belt or have you wear one?

Do your parents buy you food with food stamps?


I'm sure the Dims wouldn't like those. But they are all in the "interest of the health."


77 posted on 02/23/2006 8:50:52 AM PST by rightinthemiddle ("Hindsight is not wisdom, and second guessing is not a strategy.")
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To: SWO

Yes
51.82%

No
46.06%

Undecided
2.12%


78 posted on 02/23/2006 8:53:45 AM PST by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: SWO
This is an AMA progrom, being taught to students in medical school. About 3 or 4 years ago I was watching an interview with a doctor who cancelled his AMA membership in protest of this program.

At the same time I had a friend who was going through medical school and I asked her about it. Indeed they were coaching the young doctors to ask about gun ownership. I then asked if firearm safety was a required course in medical school. The answer, "Of course not!"

Turn out she told her sister how upset she was with me for questioning her on this. I was very disappointed that she was blindly accepting the school's coaching on this.

I've never been asked the question, don't have kids, and not sure how I would respond if asked. But I may ask them certain questions, like if they had alcohol in their home and when was the last time they had a drink? Seems like I have a right to know if the physician that is about to treat me has imbibed recently. And of course to make sure they knew the dangers of children and alcohol poisoning. Or something along those lines....

79 posted on 02/23/2006 8:54:00 AM PST by Roos_Girl (Help! Help! I'm being repressed!)
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To: Potowmack
"For example, what if the doctor knows that the patient has a child with mental problems? A good doctor would suggest increased steps to keep the guns out of the kid's hands."

Bullbleep--any self-respecting gun-owning parent already knows this FAR better than any physician (unless the physician is also a gun-owning parent). There is NO reason for ANY physician EVER to ask this question.

80 posted on 02/23/2006 8:54:08 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: Timedrifter

Scary thing is, if you give the "wrong" answer to some of those questions, in some states it will either put you in direct violation of state law, or at least provide what the state recognizes as "probable cause" for a visit by child welfare workers. Will the doctor then report you?


81 posted on 02/23/2006 8:55:05 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Wonder Warthog
Bullbleep--any self-respecting gun-owning parent already knows this FAR better than any physician (unless the physician is also a gun-owning parent). There is NO reason for ANY physician EVER to ask this question.

There are a lot of gun-owners out there who don't practice adequate gun safety.

I'm really not sure why there needs to be a government solution to this problem. Like I said, if a doctor is too nosy, get another doctor.

82 posted on 02/23/2006 8:57:04 AM PST by Potowmack ("Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government")
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To: doc30
"Even so, do you believe the government should restrict someone's first amendment rights like this? If they can do that, then they can restrict your second amendment rights as well."

Since the question is NOT about any area of medicine, YES, I "do" think the legislature has the ability to restrict the what the doctor does. After all, they are ALREADY telling him that he can or cannot practice medicine at all. It's not a "free speech" issue.

83 posted on 02/23/2006 8:57:55 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: Potowmack
"So don't answer the question."

See the post from the Freeper who refused to answer, and whos physican WROTE IN HER RECORDS that his answer was "yes".

84 posted on 02/23/2006 8:59:53 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: Wonder Warthog
See the post from the Freeper who refused to answer, and whos physican WROTE IN HER RECORDS that his answer was "yes".

By filling in a false answer, that physician already violated ethical and legal rules regarding accuracy in medical records.

85 posted on 02/23/2006 9:01:26 AM PST by Potowmack ("Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government")
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To: Galveston Grl

That was the essence of my reply to another post. If you don't want a doctor asking if you have firearms, go to a different doctor. At first I was thinking the doctors just want to prevent pediatric firearm accidents. Not a bad thing to do. But then the story started to nag me and I realized it wasn't the gun question. It really struck me that this is also a free speech issue. No I'm getting more upset that this state government wants to restrict speech. Regardless of my opinion on doctors asking about guns, I'm getting really upset about the government regulating speech.


86 posted on 02/23/2006 9:01:46 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: Shanda

We must go to the same Doctor.


87 posted on 02/23/2006 9:02:41 AM PST by yarddog
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To: Potowmack
"There are a lot of gun-owners out there who don't practice adequate gun safety."

It depends on who defines gun safety. My parents owned guns. Those guns were ALWAYS loaded, and openly available at any time to any member of the family. THEY defined "gun safety" as "teaching their children proper gun-handling and safety procedures". NOT as the physicians typically recommend--keep all guns locked up with the ammunition locked up separately.

But you can bet if I or any of my siblings had displayed any irresponsibility that the guns would have been "made safe".

88 posted on 02/23/2006 9:08:21 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: Potowmack
"By filling in a false answer, that physician already violated ethical and legal rules regarding accuracy in medical records."

And this helps the gun-owner exactly how, when the doc's records are computerized and cross-linked, and the feds later decide to search those records to see who's a gun-owner??

89 posted on 02/23/2006 9:08:37 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: Hildy
re: And if you lie and say no...are you committing some kind of crime?)))

No, unless you're trying to get certain medications prescribed to you or otherwise defraud or mislead to a criminal act. Then it's both a crime and a tort. You're not under oath, but not all lies are OK.

I'd be glad to see this busybody practice (what is it about the Pediatrics Associations?) abandoned.

And most docs don't like having to do it--the Associations decide what "standard of care" is and who "deviates from standard practice." Then you might lack a good-faith defense in court. Docs are as likely as any conservative to own guns or belong to the NRA.

But Associations are often made up of people who don't want the bother of treating patients.

90 posted on 02/23/2006 9:09:04 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Wonder Warthog
Since the question is NOT about any area of medicine, YES, I "do" think the legislature has the ability to restrict the what the doctor does. After all, they are ALREADY telling him that he can or cannot practice medicine at all. It's not a "free speech" issue.

And where do you draw the line with medicine? Just active treatment for patient complaints and not root causes? The legislature should be doing that, too? It should be up to the doctor to do ask such a question and not mandated or restricted. Giving permission to ask when a gun injury is involved is pointless because, with a gun injury, the police and, in the case of a minor, social services will be sticking their noses in big time. For doctors, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. My only issue with asking the question is that doctors not record the information and it be done informally.

91 posted on 02/23/2006 9:11:04 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: ridesthemiles

Legal requirements for registration of what can reasonably be presumed to be animal breeding and selling businesses is well within the scope of the interstate commerce clause. I don't know the specific law you're referring to, and if it covers people who just have several pets, it's out of line. But the puppy mill problem is not only one of horrible animal cruelty, but also of serious infectious diseases being spread from state to state, since nearly all these operations sell to brokers including out-of-state ones, and the brokers in turn resell to retailers in multiple states. And even for animals only be sold within the state, most states' laws have long provided for regulatory measures to avoid spread of disease in livestock, and commercial inventory pet animals are essentially livestock.

Horses are another type of "pet" animal that are frequently sold across state lines, and have multiple owners during their lifetimes, so breeders/traders of horses can also appropriately be subject to registration and inspection requirements. But of course, this shouldn't apply to a family which keeps a few horses for pleasure riding.


92 posted on 02/23/2006 9:12:42 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: SWO
Although it's never come up. (I try to avoid doctors as a matter of policy and overall good health.) If it ever does, I'm going to reply...

"Guns? Are you out of your damned mind? Those things are dangerous! I've heard tales of those things jumping up and killing people just to watch them die! What kind of fool question is that to ask? Guns! Next you'll be asking if I keep a nest of Copperheads under the bed! Do I look like a crazed lunatic to you? No, honestly DO I?!"

1911, it's not just a number, it's a way of life. (/grin)
93 posted on 02/23/2006 9:12:42 AM PST by Dr.Zoidberg (Mohammedism - Bringing you only the best of the 6th century for fourteen hundred years.)
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To: doc30
The problem with the medical industry is that is highly regulated by state governments, as is the insurance industry. The states have fought hard to maintain control over medicine and insurance, in order not to have it slip into predominantly Federal jurisdiction, as has happened with banking, pharmaceuticals, railroads, and airlines. One way the states have accomplished this is to show that they are "tough" regulators, even in relatively conservative states like Virginia. Any given state's medical association is essentially a state-supported guild, not unlike those in medieval Europe, technically private and voluntary, but in actuality quasi-governmental and coercive. Since insurance companies are the primary repayment sources for many physicians, their guidelines compel doctors to perform their services in compliance with those guidelines.

Physicians are likely under pressure by their trade association and insurance companies to be proactive with regard to gun ownership. Additionally, in graduate schools as well as at the undergraduate level, leftist propaganda commingles with "hard" science. As a result, many physicians are liberals and therefore support gun control. At the last Presidential election, there were surveys that showed that people with graduate degrees were almost as likely to vote for Kerry as were those who did not graduate from high school, the low paid workers and welfare recipients that have been a Democrat "core" group since the New Deal era.

Ideally, insurance and medicine are services that should be freed from state regulation. However, that is unlikely to happen in our lifetimes. We are fortunate if we can successfully stop fully socialized medicine and elimination of the free market on vitamins and supplements. Given that we are stuck with a regulated commodity (medicine), it may be necessary to stop insurance firms and state medical associations from covertly promoting an anti-gun agenda. I do not think it is a violation of the doctors' First Amendment rights any more than it is for a postal worker or a soldier being prohibited from engaging in partisan politics by campaigning for a candidate.

94 posted on 02/23/2006 9:13:13 AM PST by Wallace T.
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To: TC Rider

GREAT REPLIES!!!!!!


95 posted on 02/23/2006 9:16:59 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: Roos_Girl
At the same time I had a friend who was going through medical school and I asked her about it. Indeed they were coaching the young doctors to ask about gun ownership. I then asked if firearm safety was a required course in medical school. The answer, "Of course not!"

Interesting story. Perhaps if politics could be set aside, the medical schools and the NRA could co-ordinate their activities and come up with a safety program that would be practical and apolitical. Otherwise, the NEA may try to get the grade schools to do the same thing.

96 posted on 02/23/2006 9:17:26 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: Wallace T.
re Physicians are likely under pressure by their trade association and insurance companies to be proactive with regard to gun ownership.

Right on target.

re: Additionally, in graduate schools as well as at the undergraduate level, leftist propaganda commingles with "hard" science. As a result, many physicians are liberals and therefore support gun control. At the last Presidential election, there were surveys that showed that people with graduate degrees were almost as likely to vote for Kerry as were those who did not graduate from high school, the low paid workers and welfare recipients that have been a Democrat "core" group since the New Deal era.)))

a clean miss--there's a big difference between a professional (and I'd include accountants, MBAs, etc. here) and a MA in Philosophy. It's a rare doc who voted for Kerry, and a rare doc who'd belong to the Lawyer Party.

97 posted on 02/23/2006 9:20:03 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Onelifetogive; SWO; Steve_Seattle; mbraynard; doc30; Wallace T.; Wonder Warthog

I have a problem with the 1st Amendment aspect of this too. However, I would be fine with such a bill if it applied only to patients whose bills are being paid in any part by public funds, and to doctors whose salaries are being paid by a publicly funded institution or agency, and to facilities which have been built and/or maintained with public funds (and that would end up catching a solid majority of pediatric offices). Taxpayers should not be forced to subsidize the medical profession's anti-gun political crusading (which is part of its larger pro-socialism political crusading). I suspect that in many pediatric practices, a very large percentage of patients are taxpayer-subsidized. Even worse, a lot of parents who are relying on taxpayer-funded health care programs for their children, are in programs where they don't haven't any choice as to what doctor they see, so the "if you don't like it, find another doctor" answer doesn't help.


98 posted on 02/23/2006 9:20:25 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: doc30
"And where do you draw the line with medicine? Just active treatment for patient complaints and not root causes?

And what disease is a gun the cause of??? Simple answer---none. Gun ownership is not like smoking, for instance, or excessive consumption of fatty foods, or any other REAL medical issue with a "root cause".

Sorry, but gun ownership is NOT a medical issue, despite all the pushing by anti-gun physicians to make it into one.

99 posted on 02/23/2006 9:25:12 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: GovernmentShrinker; All

DOCTORS KILL MORE PEOPLE THAN GUNS DO!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1310481/posts


100 posted on 02/23/2006 9:25:14 AM PST by panaxanax
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