Muslim Cleric: Women Incite Men's Lust With 'Satanic Dress'

The Sun-Herald [Melbourne, AU] ^ | April 23, 2005 | Miranda Devine

[quidnunc]

A Muslim sheik told followers at a public meeting in Bankstown that women who were raped had incited men's lust by dressing immodestly and only had themselves to blame.

Sydney-born Sheik Faiz Mohamad, 34, a former boxer who teaches at the Global Islamic Youth Centre in Liverpool, made the comments during a lecture for more than 1000 people at Bankstown Town Hall.

The Sun-Herald has a recording of the March 18 speech in which Sheik Faiz said: "A victim of rape every minute somewhere in the world. Why? No one to blame but herself. She displayed her beauty to the entire world …

"Strapless, backless, sleeveless, nothing but satanic skirts, slit skirts, translucent blouses, miniskirts, tight jeans: all this to tease man and appeal to his carnal nature."

He compared a woman dressed in such a way to a sheep. "Would you put this sheep that you adore in the middle of hungry wolves? No … It would be devoured. It's the same situation here. You're putting this precious girl in front of lustful, satanic eyes of hungry wolves. What is the consequence? Catastrophic devastation, sexual harassment, perversion, promiscuity."

The invitation to the $15-a-head lecture stipulated modest dress and "strict male and female segregation". It was promoted as a lecture about "death" in flyers and on the website of the ICRA Youth Centre in Lidcombe, an Islamic community group which sponsored the evening.

-snip-

[ConservativeMind]

I realize there is cultural relativism to deal with here.

Nick Danger probably put the specific problem with Muslim men in context best in an earlier post.

[5050 no line]

I have spent a lot of time amongst these people (Muslims) in their home lands, and you are quite right when you infer that the males are brought up with absolutely no self control when it comes to females. Females are property and treated like sheep, probably why the Australian 'sheikh' used the parallel. It is said that the honour of the men lies between the legs of their women.

The whole burden of saving males from having to exert self control has been thrust onto the female in Muslim society simply in order to make things 'easier' for the males. She has to be kept covered up, behave modestly (read submissive) and be constantly chaperoned by a male relative who will tell her what to do. From early days the young male has been allowed to run free as he likes with litle control or direction from his parents, whilst the females are restrained and covered up as soon as they are considered marriagable (often from 8 or 9 years old).

You have only to see how Middle Eastern men behave around Western women in their 'society' to see that they have no self control. They consider them to be whores, by the way they dress (western style) and by their behaviour (normal male/female interaction) and are quite happy to confess this to you in their arrogance. On a beach in the Middle East I have seen these animals ('lower class' Pakistanis/Baluch generally) sitting together some distance away from western women (including my girlfriend) in swimming costumes. The Muslim men have been quite openly mastubating. (They cleared off when I produced a firearm!!)

No control. Very sad. Not sure where to begin to educate/civilise them.

[ArmyTeach]

"Shame on the Australian politicians who imported this garbage into their homeland" Is deportation an option? Inciting to violence, etc?

[Fred Nerks]

"I realize there is cultural relativism to deal with here."

See #123. The judge appears not to agree with you.



"Neither the law, nor the culture of Australia, recognises multiculturalism ... as providing in any way or to anybody a convenient justification either for rape or for any other form of sexual abuse," he said.

[JudyinCanada]

Well said.

My Christian daughter (quite beautiful) and her Christian boyfriend consider their number one responbility to each other is to protect each other's purity.

They are 18 years of age and I applaud them for their wisdom. They are thinking of their lives ahead, not the moment...thank God.

She dresses attractively, but not provocatively.

[armymarinemom]

However, if you are not Christians, you have no need to understand nor accept such words.

How odd that you almost assume that others who disagree with you are not Christian. A woman's dress may tempt a man to sin but it doesn't invite rape. Rape is a violent dominance crime and not a crime of desire.

If you are attracted to someone and you are thinking force maybe just maybe you have a problem. Your statements on control are rather frightening.

[Fred Nerks]

Australia Muslim Gang Rapes (snip)Sun-Herald article.

http://www.seanbryson.com/articles/australia_racist_rapes.html


"...Keysar Trad, vice-president of the Lebanese Muslim Association, said: "It is certainly a disgrace to our community that people who were born to a Muslim family would commit such heinous crimes." But he went on to say it was "rather unfair" that the rapists' ethnicity had been reported "because these boys themselves have completely disaffiliated themselves from their culture or their religion".

Yes, it is unfair that the vast bulk of law-abiding Lebanese Muslim boys and men should be smeared by association. But their temporary discomfort may be necessary so that the powerful social tool of shame is applied to the families and communities that nurtured the rapists, gave them succour and brought them up with such a hatred of Australia's dominant culture and contempt for its women that they think of an 18-year-old girl, dressed for a job interview in her best suit, sitting on a train reading a book, as a slut..."

DRESSED FOR A JOB INTERVIEW IN HER BEST SUIT!

[JudyinCanada]

I don't think any of the commentary here regarding young ladies' dressing modestly is in any way taking the side of the evil rapist. It's a different subject that quite naturally comes up in such discussions.

Many muslims hold western women in such contempt, they could be in a ski suit and they would desire to hurt them. It has nothing to do with lust and provocation. It is the evil that dwells in them.

[Fred Nerks]

"I don't think any of the commentary here regarding young ladies' dressing modestly is in any way taking the side of the evil rapist. It's a different subject that quite naturally comes up in such discussions."

First line of the article states:

"A Muslim sheik told followers at a public meeting in Bankstown that women who were raped had incited men's lust by dressing immodestly and only had themselves to blame..."

Oh, did I make a mistake? I thought it was the 'muslim sheik' who brought up the subject, isn't that what the article is all about?

[ConservativeMind]

"A woman's dress may tempt a man to sin but it doesn't invite rape. Rape is a violent dominance crime and not a crime of desire.

If you are attracted to someone and you are thinking force maybe just maybe you have a problem."

I wholeheartedly agree on these points. However, I do not understand why you have a problem with people keeping their desires in check and under control. Without self-control, we would have anarchy because the vast majority would take that which they wanted.

We may want something at the store, but it never justifies stealing it.

[ConservativeMind]

Well, then I believe the judge is wrong.

[ConservativeMind]

Fred, we aren't agreeing with that statement from the article at all.

There are practical and religious reasons to dress more modestly. If you haven't already read other posts by me or a few others here, you should go back and do so. They may help you understand what we are saying.

[Fred Nerks]

"There are practical and religious reasons to dress more modestly. If you haven't already read other posts by me or a few others here, you should go back and do so. They may help you understand what we are saying."

Pardon me for assuming you were taking part in a discussion on a thread titled "Muslim Cleric: Women Incite Men's Lust With 'Satanic Dress'".

If it's current fashion trends you wish to discuss, why not use FReepmail?

[Fred Nerks]

"Well, then I believe the judge is wrong."

Why?

[ConservativeMind]

Frankly, Fred, you've posted so many long article excerpts I've lost track of what in the heck you are trying to say.

[ConservativeMind]

I have given excellent justification to date as to why I believe what I believe. Where I thought something you said was better covered by Nick Danger, I've given appropriate credit.

Now, excuse me if the rest of what you appear to be saying is just not making any more sense.

[Fred Nerks]

"Neither the law, nor the culture of Australia, recognises multiculturalism ... as providing in any way or to anybody a convenient justification either for rape or for any other form of sexual abuse," he said.

"Well, then I believe the judge is wrong," you replied.

I asked you Why?
Why was the judge wrong?

[ConservativeMind]

Fred, I stated that the issue concerning problems with Muslims was already addressed by Nick Danger's post.

You then said that the judge disagreed with me. I don't know why you said that.

But all of my words are consistent. I agree with the judge and you screwed up your stupid post to me on this!

[Fred Nerks]

Posted by ConservativeMind to Fred Nerks
On News/Activism 04/23/2005 6:01:00 PM PDT · 141 of 157

"I realize there is cultural relativism to deal with here."


Please explain what you mean. It's that simple. Thanks.

[ConservativeMind]

As Nick Danger stated in post 123 and others have mentioned in part prior to his post, Muslim men can find what we would call "extremely conservative" dress to be "strongly provocative" simply because what they see all the time is wrapped in black from head to toe and without so much as a mouth showing. Culturally, they come from a different place than we do.

Now, as to how some Muslim men handle everything less than total black coverings runs into the issue Nick more precisely addressed, which is they haven't appropriately had to learn to truly control themselves to any extent. They've substituted a strict law for ever having to learn true self-control.

We live in a society that is loose even by the cultural standards of just 15 years ago. Although we learn self-control and live with immodest dress all around us, it is still pushed beyond what it should be in society. When a law is passed in Florida that doesn't allow copious butt-crack and vaginal hair to show on girls and boys (which I understand was enacted simply because a new pant style has pushed the pants down that far on some), we have a further erosion of standards we are needing to address. At some point this must be pushed back against.

And I am doing that.