Posted on 07/17/2018 1:36:35 AM PDT by Sontagged
That citation is more supportive of what I have posted about the Mishnah’s writings of Jewish burial practices than the claims of ignorant people conflating Egyptian bandage wrapping techniques to the Jews of the first century, of which there is ZERO EVIDENCE. The Biblical passage states there were just bindings of strips of cloth at Lazarus’ hands and feet, not wrapped bindings all around his legs and arms. Jesus did not say “unwrap him” and let him go. He said “Unbind him, and let him go.” That is a much simpler task than unwinding swaddling bandages involving just untying the knots on the bindings holding his arms and legs together.
It also says he had a cloth over his head. It does NOT say his body was covered in bandages or strips of cloth. That is pretty definitive and comports with the burial practices outlined in the Mishnah, which is what Jews would have been compelled to follow.
The bandages and strips of cloth are conflations of later ENGLISH translations from the Greek original language of the New Testement and ignorant assumptions of readers based on 18th Century discoveries of bandage wrapped mummies in Egypt and the mistaken assumption that burial practices of two middle Eastern cultures, both prominently featured in the Bible, must be similar. Yet there is no Biblical, scientific, or archaeological foundation for these assumptions. None.
The other odd thing, which addresses the complaint that it doesn’t form a widened image, is that the image is inexplicably vertically collimated, going straight up and down, within the limits of measurement not deviating from the vertical by even 1º!
No radiation, gas, or any known means of image creation except a laser or maser does that. . . but this source does it vertically from every point on the body and the energy which caused the image attenuated with distance fading to obscurity of its effect within 2.5 to 4 centimeters but still causing its change in the fibers of the cloth even further, just not enough to be visible to the human eye but capable of being enhanced by modern computers up to 8 to 10 centimeters for details such that Barrie Schwortz told me that under computer enhancement it could be discerned that the man on the Shroud had been circumcised. It’s almost as if some inexplicable force suddenly caused every molecule and atom of the body to act as a pulsed LED emitter of collimated “slow” light, which could only reach just so far before fading out.
This energy also revealed the orbits of the eyes and the teeth in the mouth, as well as the phalanges bones of the fingers and hand, so it has an X radiation component. . . something never seen in a photographic image.
Ambrosia, I am completely aware of that fact. The author of the article apparently is not. The following is a direct quote from the article:
“So, Jesus’ body and Lazarus’ body would have been prepared for entombment in the same manner. Both walked out of their tombs while still wrapped in grave cloths.”
The author claims both Lazarus and Jesus walked out of their tombs while still wrapped in their respective grave clothes. That is literally not possible in Jesus’ case as it is quite plain they were left behind in the tomb, unless the author wants to say Jesus went back in and laid them back on the niche after finding suitable clothing elsewhere on a nearby clothesline. Maybe that is what he means? After all we can’t have a naked Jesus walking around, can we? Yeah, I’m being facetious.
A careful reading of the Greek indicates that Peter saw the shroud covering lying on the shelf as if it just sagged when a body no loner occupied the wrap, as if the body ‘evaporated from the wrap. Also, Jesus left the tomb without rolling away the stone. The stone was rolled away by the Angel to let the women view the inside of the tomb.
Vlad ol’ boy! How ya been?
Yep!
TY GBU
Yes...
Still vertical. That’s half the battle. How about you?
The authors claim that they have reproduced the effects on a small scale, using chemicals in use in the 1500s (they give the formula). They claim it is similar to a daguerreotype but using cloth.
To me, the interesting part was debunking the climate-change "science" used to authenticate it.
The biggest surprise was that it was known how to capture an image clear back to Roman times, but they could never figure how to fix the image so it wouldn't fade. The authors did, by exposing the cloth to heat, similar to how you exposed a message written in lemon juice, giving it that scorched effect. (No they didn't claim the image was drawn.)
An interesting "outside the box" theory and would be worthy of a photography class project.
That’s the book I read in the early 90’s... that got me out of thinking the Shroud was real... thanks.. not sure if I still have it.
There may be no ultimate way to know because it is a record of a supernatural event (the science hints yhat much). Could it be in the same vein as apparently miraculous images of saints? Whoever made it knew of Christ. Yet as the Lord said to the Thomas whose doubt He specially stooped to, blessed are those who didn’t see and yet believed. I personally am a hard case Thomas. I can understand why the Shroud whether it’s also His actual burial cloth. But those whom the Shroud helps genuinely believe unto receiving salvation will take that belief with them away from the Shroud.
There is more false claims in his article. The Talmud burial, and the head cloth, which is removed before Shroud added. I apologize this explanation is long.
There is confusion about the head cloth found in Jesus Tomb, and no one seems to understand that at time of death on the Cross of Jesus, the head was covered immediately with a smaller cloth. NOW, I do not advocate that The Ovieda Cloth found was the one placed on Jesus head, only that there are two clothes at time of death and burial. One for head, removed, when later the Shroud. Jesus was a JEW...so therefore, Jewish burial as referenced in The Talmud would have been used, and Joseph of A was one who buried him with 2 others.
1) https://www.newgeology.us/presentation24.html
This quote is from the link:
“The Oviedo (FACE) Cloth was placed around the head at the time of death on the Cross and remained there until the body was to be covered by the Shroud in the Garden Tomb. Then it was removed and placed to one side (John 20:7). Oviedo scholar Mark Guscin notes that the practice of covering the face is referenced in the Talmud (Moed Katan 27a). He adds that Rabbi Alfred Kolatch of New York talks of the Kevod Ha-Met or “respect for the dead” as the reason for covering the head. Rabbi Michael Tuktzinsky of Jerusalem in his Sefer Gesher Cha’yim (Volume 1, Chapter 3, 1911) offers as a reason that it is a hardship for onlookers to gaze on the face of a dead person.”
Unquote
2) a. The Jewish Talmud was the defining word on Jesus hanging (crucifixtion), so would not the Talmud of Jewish Law and Tradition have ruled his burial...used by all Jews.
b. a description of a the Jewish burial ritual, as it applied to Jesus. This link explains a Talmud ritual.
https://jaymack.net/english/life-of-christ-commentary/Lx-The-Burial-of-Jesus-in-the-Tomb.php
And you have the Shroud of Turin website for more info.
I believe Joseph of A. folded the head cloth and laid it in the tomb, when they wrapped Jesus in the Shroud. So that explains the two cloths. The size of the Shroud, 14’X 3.5’ would have been supplied by Joseph of A., who was a wealthy man. He believed Jesus was the Christ and would he not have given his best!
There are other things people misunderstand in Bible, and I will leave that until another time!
Thanks for reading. el
The bible makes it pretty plain that Jesus’ and Lazarus’ resurrection scenarios played out differently.
Yep. Still above ground!
In my #53 post I made two grammar errors, and used ‘is’ instead of ‘are’ in first sentence. Later, I mentioned 2 others, when I talked of Joseph of A burying Jesus. There were two other men who helped him, and not that he buried two others. LOL
I put that together when Kaiden (20 mo) was sleeping, and did not take enough time to proof well. My apologies. I have busy days, and do my best. el
What became of Lazarus? It’s only appointed unto man to die once.
Excellent question. Perhaps in anticipation of the miracle he only “slept.”
Excellent question. Perhaps in anticipation of the miracle he only “slept.”
I.e. in some manner it was a “living death” — by way of illustrating the sad situation of those who don’t yet know the Lord unto salvation. I’m only suggesting it as a rank amateur theologian. I’m sure the pros will go back and forth about it.
Sophistry.
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