Does Christianity Produce Agnostics?

While discussing religion with Stephen Colbert on the "Late Show," Ricky Gervais described himself as an "agnostic atheist." Gervais said, "No one knows if there's a God, so technically, everyone's agnostic. We don't know. An agnostic atheist is someone who doesn't know if there's a God or not, as no one does."

And from Gervais's point of view, such a statement makes perfect sense. After all, one would expect a self-proclaimed agnostic atheist to assume that even Christians don't know for a fact that God exists, right?

In reality, you can know for sure that God is real by entering into a personal relationship with the Lord. I addressed this vital issue in a previous article entitled, "Can Faith Lead to Abiding Certainty?"

Christian certainty is based upon biblical history, God's promises, empirical evidence, and divine revelation. These four pillars provide a foundation for faith that is unshakable, as I explained here: "Does Christianity Stand on Faith or Evidence?"

In order for Ricky Gervais or anyone who shares his beliefs to embrace Christianity, an honest evaluation and acceptance of the pertinent facts is required. For example, one could come to recognize the rock solid historical evidence for the Christian faith and discover that "The Mathematical Proof for Christianity Is Irrefutable."

Another helpful approach would be to consider what I call "40 Questions to Determine the True Religion." In doing so, a person could come to see the uniqueness of Christianity in light of every other religion on the planet.

But in order to experience the new birth, one must bring his sin to the cross and get intellectually honest about the message of Christ's resurrection. (see "The Messiah's Critics Couldn't Produce His Body.")

Once you start to evaluate the evidence with an open mind, you will likely run into a major roadblock within your own soul. Namely, your moral resistance to Jesus and your personal aversion to God's claim on your life. This aspect of man's nature is spelled out in the article, "Moral Resistance Resides Deeper than Intellectual Reasoning."

And this helps to explain why Ricky Gervais believes that Christians are agnostic. After all, he has not yet been personally persuaded by biblical history, God's promises, empirical evidence, and divine revelation. And so in Ricky's thinking, a Christian cannot know for sure that God exists. The fact of the matter is that Christians definitely know Christ as their Savior, and many believers experience an abiding certainty that God is real and heaven is their eternal home.

Meanwhile, atheists and agnostics commonly end up "Rejecting Jesus for All the Wrong Reasons." And this is why divine revelation is so critical. After all, "the man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Cor. 2:14)

The Holy Spirit uses the Law to convict people of their sin and their need for the Savior. (see "How the Law Leads People to Christ.") Spiritual conversion is a miracle performed by the Holy Spirit (John 3:6) who works in man's heart through both the Law and the Gospel.

Thankfully, you don't have to twist God's arm for Him to love you. A key question for you, however, is this: Do you want to meet God? The Lord's grace is available to you today, and "God Would Love You to Know Him."

Ricky Gervais openly admits he does not know whether or not God exists. On the flip side, there are multitudes of Christians who are certain of God's existence and of Christ's love for them.

At the end of the day, labels only communicate so much. What matters most is that you come to understand and embrace the purpose of Christ's death for you on the cross. And in order to base your faith on facts, you will need to wrap your mind around the salvation history of Scripture.

As you dig into the miraculous details of Christianity, don't forget to examine the empirical evidence for Christ's resurrection as well as the hundreds of messianic prophecies fulfilled by Jesus. Ultimately, you will need divine revelation from the Holy Spirit. Unless God speaks to you through His Word, you won't "get it." And you will likely assume that everyone else is flying by the seat of their pants just like you, regardless of their claim to know that God is real.

No matter where you find yourself today, there is only one approach that results in having your sins forgiven and your name written in "Heaven's Reservation Book." The apostle John put it this way: "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." (1 John 5:13)

The only place Christians are "agnostic" is in the minds of atheists and agnostics, when they assume that their own personal uncertainty about God translates to uncertainty in the hearts of believers. Such a flawed perspective seems plausible to a person until he is converted by the power of the Holy Spirit, or until he finds himself standing before the Lord on Judgment Day.

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ." (2 Cor. 5:10) Believer, unbeliever, agnostic, atheist, you name it. Everyone will get their appointment in God's courtroom. (see "Christianity Is Judicial and Set in Stone.")

One reason Christianity doesn't produce agnostics is because "the author and perfecter of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2) is not some mystical unknowable deity. Jesus Christ truly is the Son of God and the Savior of all who personally know Him. Jesus said, "I know my sheep and my sheep know me." (John 10:14)

Agnostics, on the other hand, do not know Christ. A step of faith is needed in order to move from the natural realm of agnosticism into the supernatural realm of Christianity. And until a person enters this realm, it's only natural to assume that no one really knows for sure whether or not God exists. Just ask Ricky Gervais.

Sigh. I suppose this is the old "only the descendants of Judah should be called 'Jews'" argument. The name of Judah is from the Hebrew "to thank, to gratefully acknowledge. All Israelites may be called Jews because each and every Jew consciously or subconsciously is an acknowledgement of G-d.

Each tribe was listed and the promise for each individually. However, because the House of Israel went whoring around God divorced them and sent them into captivity, and part of their punishment would be they would not know who they were. Now the House of Judah comprised of Judah and Benjamin and those two were sent to Babylon. The two 'sticks' have not been rejoined per Ezekiel 37.

You seem to be conflating the movie with The Book. If you read Exodus 19 and 20 you will see that all the Jews and others gathered around Mt. Sinai heard the voice of G-d. They were so stricken with fear that they began screaming for G-d to stop. After the first two utterances (given in first person) G-d had to relay the remaining eight (given in third person) via Moses because they people simply could not continue to experience such a revelation of G-d and live. It was only after this mass revelation that Moses went to the top of the mountain to receive the Two Tablets, and during which time the people built the golden calf. You should really read your Bible more.

The spin you place on what actually occurred is very liberal. The Creator was so pleased with His newly freed people, He required them to wander around in the wilderness for 40 years. And even Moses, after hitting the 'Rock' was not allowed to enter the 'promise land'.. Moses did write all about the 'Rock', and noted that there are two rocks... an impostor has been in the mix since the Garden Party.

This is what you believe. I know he is not. I've been on this forum for eighteen years and for all that time have never read a rational argument from a chrstian as to why the religion is true. All chrstian apologetics on this forum reduce to constant repetition of chrstian claims and beliefs without one argument for external proof.

You claim to know the Torah, and yet you are blind to the 'fact' that Christ was there from the beginning... Genesis 1:1... maybe you need better teachers.

This Christian knows G-d exists. I have been directly in his presence at the foot of the incredibly large throne. It was both love indescribable and absolute terror at His power.

You are a very nice, polite person, unlike some people, so I hope you won't take this the wrong way. But the Revelation at Sinai is the ultimate and definitive revelation which sits in judgment on all others. Claims of individual revelations cannot be verified but must be judged in the light of that definitive revelation. Besides, people of every religion have claimed such experiences that validate their religions. The individual who has received them may be profoundly moved, but nothing can be objectively proven.

Unfortunately that doesn’t help you.

Nor anyone else who didn't experience the personal revelation along with you.

Have you read the Christian books? I know several orthodox Jews who have accepted Yeshua (Jesus for some Christians here) as messiah. They all stated they completely avoided reading the new covenant books because they believed they were filled with anti-Jewish hate and blasphemy. In reality they are Jewish books written by Jewish men. I would encourage you to at least read through the first book or two - especially in one of the translations done by former rabbis. Keep an open mind.

I am not Jewish. I am a Noachide who was a lifelong chrstian until some twenty-seven years ago.

It's not about whether or not the "new testament" is anti-Semitic (though it's much more anti-Semitic than philo-Semitic chrstians will admit). The point is that G-d had already spoken and His objective Revelation to perhaps three million people simply does not allow for any supersession such as chrstianity claims (and I don't care if you call it "fulfillment" instead). Accepting the "new testament" is no different than accepting the "book of mormon," yet the same chrstians who do that (because "it's new!") can't seem to understand why the people who heard the Voice of G-d at Sinai could not accept the religion or claims of J*sus. I KNOW we serve the same G-d. Please do not judge Christianity by the behavior of Christians - or by the actions, particularly historical, of those who were Christian in name only. Instead - go to the books themselves.

But the Revelation at Sinai is the ultimate and definitive revelation which sits in judgment on all others. Claims of individual revelations cannot be verified but must be judged in the light of that definitive revelation. Besides, people of every religion have claimed such experiences that validate their religions. The individual who has received them may be profoundly moved, but nothing can be objectively proven.

Right.

Because you were there.

And you saw it all.

And you have the pictures to prove it.

It's just taken you a while to get them developed.

But the Revelation at Sinai is the ultimate and definitive revelation which sits in judgment on all others. Claims of individual revelations cannot be verified but must be judged in the light of that definitive revelation. Besides, people of every religion have claimed such experiences that validate their religions. The individual who has received them may be profoundly moved, but nothing can be objectively proven.

Right.

Because you were there.

And you saw it all.

And you have the pictures to prove it.

It's just taken you a while to get them developed.

No, I wasn't there (though I know of people who were!).

There are two kinds of religions: one kind has no historical founder, but blends into mythology. This includes the various "indigenous" religions, hinduism, shinto, etc. The other kind were historically founded by historical persons, often claiming a special "revelation" from a "gxd" (or to be the incarnation of a "gxd"). These two kinds of religions share one thing in common: any one or number (or all) of them could be true . . . but there is no way to know for sure.

However, among this latter group--those historically founded--one stands out because it wasn't started by a human being claiming to have received a revelation (or to be "gxd"). There is only one claim in history of G-d--not a human being of any kind--publicly revealing Himself to perhaps as many as three million people at once, who then passed down the knowledge and obligations to all their successive descendants.

I repeat: there is only one such claim in all history. Now what does this tell us? It tells us that it actually happened. Why? Because a public, national revelation is the best possible basis for any religion. Yet there is only one such claimed revelation. A random event never happens only once. If this particular claim were false, history would be littered with similar claims, yet it is not. There is one and only one such claim. The fact that no one else has ever made the claim in all human history proves that this one and only claim must be true.

I have on numerous occasions posted links to this article which explains this in great detail. Perhaps you would care to read a far better explication of the matter than I can give? Or perhaps not.

I know you don't like me, but I can't help but wonder why my defenses of Torah bother you so much more than all the Nazi garbage that's been showing up on this site lately. No one else seems to care about them.

As what? A cloud, a storm, a fire, a light, a voice someone thinks they hear in a downpour? Events like that have been seen or heard by peoples all around the world as signs from gods. Whether there was anything more than that is impossible to say now.

Hundreds of years passed from the when the events of Exodus are supposed to have happened to when they were first written down, and then there was another century or two until they took their accepted form. It's remarkable that anything has survived centuries and millennia like that, but that was certainly plenty of time for myths and legends to grow up.

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm just saying that there isn't the kind of certainty about it that you claim to have. It's not obvious that it's in a different category from other claims for the appearance of gods to mortals.

I understand. You have to believe that your religion is grounded in absolute truth and undeniable fact. So you go back to a point where conflicting information either wasn't written down, or didn't survive, or was suppressed, and you claim that events had to happen in the way you believe it did simply because there are no contradictory accounts.

The fact that there's only one account makes it seem convincing to you, but it's hardly proof in itself, and there are enough contradictions between the various sources in the Bible themselves to suggest that iron-clad certainty isn't possible.

There is one and only one such claim. The fact that no one else has ever made the claim in all human history proves that this one and only claim must be true.

That is because you believe that what happened occurred before a crowd of 3 million people. Most scholars disagree with that. Substitute more reasonable (much smaller) figures and then consider the gap of 600 years or more from when the events are said to have happened to when accounts of them were written and things are a lot less certain.

I've seen some arguments about World War II, but haven't read any outright Nazi posts here. If I do, I'll comment. I don't like the way you're always pretending to be a friend of Christian fundamentalists while you insult the fundamentals of their faith with this "chrstian" stuff. I think you want to have it both ways, playing the defender of simple people and scorning and despising what they actually believe. That's not an attractive trait. I'm also not that crazy about the way you are always attacking Catholics as though they are the only people who disagree with your point of view. But I don't have any personal feelings against you. You are one of the cranks who make FR interesting. Live and be well.

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