Posted on 07/14/2017 10:35:19 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Apples and oranges. Hanegraaff is not an ordained bishop in a protestant church leading the organization.
He is a lay Christian hosting a television show discussing passages found in the bible.
If a lay Orthodox Christian was hosting a television show that discussed the lives of the apostles, I wouldn't demand he step down because the show's host has joined the Church of the Nazarene. Pretty sure they can discuss the lives of the apostles too.
He can become the Orthodox Answer man, but he built his program based on being a Biblical Christian, not Orthodox.
If I knew where the voting took place, I you get get my vote for winning the Internet for the day.
If you find some strange sect of Reformed Christianity that doesn't believe in the twelve apostles, we'll have to ask any Catholic who joins it not to discuss the twelve apostles anymore.
Eastern Orthodox: The Bible is not the absolute and final authority; it is subject to the interpretation of EO church tradition that include councils, the writings of the saints, and other sources.
Sola Scriptura is a very interesting subject. How did today's Bible come into being. Is there a verse somewhere that says, 'Genesis, Numbers ..... the gospels, the epistles.... are inspired? No!
The first “Canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in AD 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In AD 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with one book of the Apocrypha) and 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) were canonical and to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (AD 393) and the Council of Carthage (AD 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.
Who made up these church councils? They were made up of early church bishops who relied on the Holy Spirit and dare I say it, tradition, to determine what books were inspired by the Holy Spirit and those not.
So, I would say we have a conundrum. Today's canon was not determined by the bible but by the belief of a council of bishops. Also, it was not a once (one council) and done thing. Multiple successive councils are responsible for identifying the books that make up today's bible.
+1
Agree. These religious wars over minor doctrinal points are harming the Body of Christ. Those doctrinal purists who believe that only they are in possession of the absolute Truth (yeah, I've been there...) are living in their own fantasy world. So long as we can agree on the fundamental Christian doctrines, we should at least tolerate and not attack each other.
Can we agree that Faith in Christ is essential for salvation, and that salvation is not possible outside of Christ's sacrifice? Can we agree to disagree as to the practical importance of "living out our faith in faith and practice"?
Can we agree that those imposters who assert their eternal salvation but whose life does not reveal the effort to live a pure moral life, are guilty, as James states: "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead"?
If you’re a biblical Christian, you believe in sacred tradition.
If you’re a biblical Christian, you believe in sacred tradition.
Be fair. No matter the name of an organization, if some of its important beliefs are denied or misinterpreted, the original organization should have the right, the duty, and the responsibility to determine whether its leader should remain.
True, none of us should be “nasty” in the way we go about defending our beliefs, but there seems to be almost as much vehemence coming from those who disagree with the above statement on leadership, as they claim is coming from those who do agree.
If we do not agree with the beliefs of our church/denomination, then why do we belong? If we are not allowed to defend our beliefs, then what is the purpose?
“...be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:” 1 Peter 3:15
A large problem arises when any denomination refuses to remove the pole from its eye while pointing to a spec in the other’s eye.
According to a quick search, the following quote has often been attributed erroneously to Augustine, but no matter where it came from, I agree with it, and unless I am mistaken, I think I remember Hank having said it myself:
“in essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity.”
If Hank no longer represents the main thinking of CRI, then he should leave. He is perfectly free to start the “OER Minitstry” (Orthodox/Evangelical Reunion Ministry).
I have been there, my friend. Trained in IMPECCABLE Evangelical institutions (heard of Moody Bible Institute?). Raised in a separatist Baptist denomination. Terminal degree in Theology. Yes, I know EXACTLY how people in this tradition think: "Everyone who disagrees with us is of the devil!"
Oh yes, I have also had interactions with that so-called bastion of Biblical truth: Bob Jones University! They are a sham of biblical Christianity.
It took me many years to realize that there were Christians outside of my own very narrow perspective. It took me many years to confess my arrogance towards other Christian brethren in different historic/cultural circumstances, but who confessed the same essential Faith proclaimed throughout the centuries.
“Aren’t Orthodox Christians, too?”
More to the point, are they Protestants in their theology? If not, then they are not what the radio program was founded to present. The folks who donated money to keep the radio program on the air for decades didn’t do so to promote Orthodox theology.
So if the “Bible Answer Man” is asked about the Lord’s Supper, the folks who started the program and funded it for decades don’t expect to hear how Orthodox priests would answer it.
“Sounds as if some members of the Christian Research Institute (never heard of it) are ignorant bigots.”
Quite an ironic statement...
They are not attacking Eastern Orthodoxy, per se. They just would like for the leader of their own organization to reflect the beliefs on which it was founded. If my church were looking for a pastor, we would not hire one from a denomination with whom we disagreed. If our pastor converted to another denomination, we would expect him to leave.
RE: Hmmm. That’s odd. I could have SWORN that the name of the organization is the “Christian Research Institute” and the name of his show is “The Bible Answer Man”, not “the Protestant Research Institute” and “The Evangelical Answer Man”
The organization and the show was founded by an evangelical minister named Walter Martin. The purpose is specifically to explain Christian Doctrine AS TAUGHT IN SCRIPTURE.
I don’t think you can determine the content of their beliefs simply by looking at the NAME of the organization.
That would be like saying that some Communist parties in the third world country believe in Democracy because they use the name “Democratic” for their party.
Makes sense to me.
Again, EVERY Eastern Orthodox church I've ever seen believes in and uses BIBLICAL SCRIPTURE at EVERY service , for their Christian doctrines, and has done so continuously for nearly two millennia.
Using and understanding BIBLE SCRIPTURE is a MAJOR component of Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
If you are aware of some strange new sect of Eastern Orthodox Christianity that says "We don't use the bible and don't believe in it our church", and that Hank has joined this aforementioned church, please feel free to let us know.
You should also let all the Orthodox patriarchs know about this rogue "Orthodox" Church, as it will likely be excommunicated for heresy.
“If the Patriarch of Constantinople professed the Reformed faith he would have to step down.”
Um, well... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Lucaris#Calvinism
RE: So what’s your point? That everyone who might differ with your own particular interpretation of Biblical theology is wrong?
My point is every organization has the right to determine their set of beliefs and vigorously defend them. If they believe another organization is in error they have every right to explain why in their show or publications as that organization has every right to defend theirs.
In this, The Christian Research Institute has been historically very fair. For instance, they have invited Catholics to their show to debate their beliefs.
If you disagree with their point of view, that is your personal prerogative, and you don’t have to patronize or support their organization if you don’t want to.
However, the directors and supporters of the organization has every right to determine who will be the spokesman for their beliefs.
*THAT* is my point.
RE: If you’re a biblical Christian, you believe in sacred tradition.
Actually, if you’re a Biblical Christian, you should look at tradition in light of Sacred Scripture.
RE: Using and understanding BIBLE SCRIPTURE is a MAJOR component of Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
OK, explain to me how they can understand praying to Mary in light of BIBLE SCRIPTURE....
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