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Would Jesus Have Come If Adam Had Not Sinned? Why Did He Wait So Long Before Coming?
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 12-21-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 12/22/2016 8:06:09 AM PST by Salvation

Would Jesus Have Come If Adam Had Not Sinned? Why Did He Wait So Long Before Coming?

December 21, 2016

summa

Continuing our series of questions related to the Incarnation, we next ponder whether Jesus would have come at all had we not sinned in the Garden. We also wonder why He waited thousands of years before coming to our rescue.

Regarding the question of whether Christ would have come if Adam had not sinned, St. Thomas Aquinas (in his Summa Theologica) first states that there are different opinions on the matter. He also notes that God’s power is not limited and therefore God could have become incarnate even if sin had not existed. However, St. Thomas believes that if man had not sinned then the Son would not have become incarnate. As I often do, I’ve presented St. Thomas’ words in bold italics, while my commentary appears in red.

For such things as spring from God’s will, and beyond the creature’s due, can be made known to us only through being revealed in the Sacred Scripture, in which the Divine Will is made known to us. Hence, since everywhere in the Sacred Scripture the sin of the first man is assigned as the reason of Incarnation, it is more in accordance with this to say that the work of Incarnation was ordained by God as a remedy for sin; so that, had sin not existed, Incarnation would not have been (Summa Theologica, Part III, Question 1, Article 1).

While theological speculation may have its place, it is most certain that the Incarnation was instituted by God first and foremost as a remedy for sin. And while the Incarnation offers more than is required to remedy sin (e.g., an increase in human dignity (since God joined our family), God’s visitation, the opening of a heavenly (not merely earthly) paradise), Scripture presents remedy for sin as God’s primary motive. In remedying our sin, God shows the greatness of His mercy, because He does not merely restore us but elevates us to a higher place than before. The least born in to the Kingdom of God is greater that the exemplar of the Old Covenant, John the Baptist. Had we not sinned and had God merely wanted to elevate us, He could have done so in other ways. Hence, St. Thomas’ position is best suited to the evidence.

If the Incarnation is a remedy for sin, why did God wait so long to apply it? St. Thomas provides an answer that is sensible and addresses aspects of the question we might not have considered. His answer is found in the Summa Theologica (part III, question 1, article 5). First he addresses why the Incarnation did not happen before sin:

Since the work of Incarnation is principally ordained to the restoration of the human race by blotting out sin, it is manifest that it was not fitting for God to become incarnate at the beginning of the human race before sin. For medicine is given only to the sick. Hence our Lord Himself says (Matthew 9:12-13): “They that are in health need not a physician, but they that are ill … For I am not come to call the just, but sinners.”

Next, St. Thomas addresses why the Incarnation did not happen quickly, soon after Original Sin, rather than thousands of years later. He sets forth four reasons:

I. Nor was it fitting that God should become incarnate immediately after sin. First, on account of the manner of man’s sin, which had come of pride; hence man was to be liberated in such a manner that he might be humbled, and see how he stood in need of a deliverer. … For first of all God left man under the natural law, with the freedom of his will, in order that he might know his natural strength; and when he failed in it, he received the law; whereupon, by the fault, not of the law, but of his nature, the disease gained strength; so that having recognized his infirmity he might cry out for a physician, and beseech the aid of grace.

Quick solutions to problems do not always permit proper healing to take place. Most parents know that if they solve every problem a child has, important lessons may be lost. It is often beneficial to live with our questions for a while so that the answers are more appreciated and more effective.

Indeed, it took us humans quite a while to really acknowledge the seriousness of our sin and pride. Shortly after Eden, the tower of Babel indicated that human pride was still a grave problem. Even when given the Law, a good thing, the flesh corrupted it, turning perfunctory observance of it into an occasion for pride. The prophets then had to keep summoning Israel and Judah back to the Lord and away from prideful self-reliance. The Assyrian invasion of the Northern Kingdom and the Babylonian Captivity only further illustrated the depths of our sin, so that this cry went up: “O Lord, that you would rend the heavens and come down” (Is 64:1).

We had to be led gradually to recognize our profound need for a savior. Otherwise, even if the remedy were offered, too few might reach for it.

II. Secondly, on account of the order of furtherance in good, whereby we proceed from imperfection to perfection. Hence the Apostle says (1 Corinthians 15:46-47): “Yet that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; afterwards that which is spiritual … The first man was of the earth, earthy; the second man from heaven, heavenly.”

There is a kind of theology of grace implicit in this answer. Grace builds on our nature. And it is our nature, physically and spiritually, to grow gradually. While sudden conversions and growth spurts have their place, the best and most typical growth is that which occurs steadily and in stages.

Thirdly, on account of the dignity of the incarnate Word, for on the words (Galatians 4:4), “But when the fullness of the time was come,” a gloss says: “The greater the judge who was coming, the more numerous was the band of heralds who ought to have preceded him.”

Here is underscored the dignity of the Son of God, that many should precede Him, announcing Him. But there was also a need for us to be prepared to meet Him, so that we would not miss Him or refuse Him when He came. As Malachi says, See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction (Mal 4:5-6). Those who were prepared were able to abide the day of the Lord’s coming and heed His call.

Fourthly, lest the fervor of faith should cool by the length of time, for the charity of many will grow cold at the end of the world. Hence (Luke 18:8) it is written: “But yet the Son of Man, when He cometh, shall He find think you, faith on earth?”

This is an interesting aspect of the question that many might not consider; we typically ponder more what is good for us than what is good for succeeding generations. But it is sadly true that fervor, both collective and individual, can fade as a wait becomes lengthy. And thus, St. Thomas suggests that God appointed a time for the Incarnation within human history such that the greatest possible number of people could be saved.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: adam; advent; catholic; christmas; jesus; msgrcharlespope
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To: Salvation

All I had to do was read the headline.

“Would Jesus Have Come If Adam Had Not Sinned?”

Full Stop.

God is ALL KNOWING. God KNEW Adam would sin. So the question is foolish.

Why read on or watch a video?


21 posted on 12/22/2016 11:46:52 AM PST by faucetman (Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: Mr. Douglas

No it was like knowing because He sees past present and future. It is all the same to Him.


22 posted on 12/22/2016 11:52:43 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Not a Romantic, not a hero worshiper and stop trying to tug my heartstrings. It tickles!)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

With that, I completely agree.


23 posted on 12/22/2016 11:57:24 AM PST by Mr. Douglas (Today is your life. What are you going to do with it?)
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To: Salvation

Jesus is an old soul and had come to earth many times:

John 8: 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

Just as the scripture states.. Be kind to strangers as they might just be angels in disguise.... People did not recognize Jesus each time He was here.

Hebrews 13:2
Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.

Finally, Per Matthew 13, we are the good seeds planted here on earth to grow. You never want your seeds to sprout in the middle of the winter. Everything is unfolding exactly as it is supposed to according to God’s Divine Plan.


24 posted on 12/22/2016 12:09:51 PM PST by tired&retired (Blessings)
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To: tired&retired
Great post.

Just as the scripture states.. Be kind to strangers as they might just be angels in disguise.... People did not recognize Jesus each time He was here.

Like what I stated on the annual Christmas-is-pagan thread:

>>>Five bucks says the Messiah has spent a lot of time decorating Christmas trees, but noone recognized him. <<<

25 posted on 12/22/2016 12:48:49 PM PST by Ezekiel (All who mourn(ed!) the destruction of America merit the celebration of her rebirth.)
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To: Mr. Douglas; boycott; Salvation
If they had not sinned, man would have no knowledge of good and evil. I wonder if that would have left us like the squid creatures in Galaxy Quest. Or, more down to earth, if it would have made us more like the animals. i.e. in the end, will our condition, after our resurrection, be BETTER than it would have been had they not sinned?

There are two possible answers I can think of, which go in very different directions.

1) We don't know what God intended; we only know what God commanded, when he prohibited eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It is possible that God intended for A&E (not the TV network, the happy couple) to never eat it; it is also possible that God would have intended for A&E to eat it, but not at that time. If the latter were the case, then the result would have been better than what actually occurred: A&E would have, at the right time, learned the nature of good and evil--presumably at a time that they would have been able to, of their own volition, choose good instead of evil, and have avoided both having a sinful nature, and giving authority over the earth, which had been given them by God, to Satan.

But there is a second possibility...

2) The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was not a tree that gave one a knowledge of good and evil, in an axiological sense. The phrase "knowledge of good and evil" could have been, in the times that the Bible was being written, a euphemism for sex.

The evidence for this can be found in II Samuel 19:35, when Barzillai the Gileadite describes his lack of physical abilities due to his 80 years: he can't hear singing, he can't taste his food...and he can't distinguish between good and evil (הַאֵדַע בֵּין־טֹוב לְרָע), the same words (towb and ra) found in the description of the tree in Genesis 2:17 (וּמֵעֵץ הַדַּעַת טֹוב וָרָע).

It would make no sense that an 80yo patriarch would say he was incapable of discerning between good and evil in the midst of talking about physical attributes...but it would make perfect sense that he would talk about the three most common attributes of very old men, that they can't taste their food, or hear high pitches ("singing girls") well...or do the nasty.

Further evidence is what happens to A&E when they eat the fruit. What is the first thing they do: enter into a discussion of the nature of good and evil a la Socrates or Aristotle or Confucius or Kant? Not at all. Instead, the first thing they do is notice that they are naked.

Finally, what are the punishments given to A&E? Eve is going to suffer in childbirth, but won't be able to keep herself from getting pregnant again and again, meaning having sex; having eaten from the tree of sex, she won't be able to stop herself. Adam will have to work hard, with the clear implication (since he gets his curse after Eve) that he is doing this to take care of his family, fighting the earth all the way to do this--all the while taking the sex that Eve is cursed to desire, all because, having eaten from the tree of sex, he can't help himself.

If this interpretation is correct, the point of the Eden story shifts: it's still a story of sin bringing death requiring salvation (the snake and the seed of the woman show this), but it is also a specific story about two trees, the tree of sex and the tree of immortality, and when A&E eat the fruit of the first tree, God has to keep them from eating the fruit of the second tree--they are like God in that they know how to beget (create) whenever they feel like it (Gen. 3:22), and without death there would be no end to their begetting.

That's how the second theory goes. Given that there is no indication in Scripture which one was meant by the phrase "knowing good and evil," it can't be said which one is the more likely scenario. From a theological standpoint it makes no difference: A&E do what they are told not to do, but what the snake deceivingly gets them to do, with the result that Eden is lost, the snake (Satan) gains temporary authority over the earth, and the plan of salvation, designed from the foundation of the world, begins its implementation, with its manifestation in Christ, and its fulfillment at the end of the age.

26 posted on 12/23/2016 9:02:13 AM PST by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: chajin

and he can’t distinguish between good and evil


Dementia?


27 posted on 12/23/2016 9:04:38 AM PST by Mr. Douglas (Today is your life. What are you going to do with it?)
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To: Mr. Douglas
Dementia?

Possible, but he doesn't come across as having dementia in his conversation with David in II Sam. 19.

28 posted on 12/23/2016 9:18:17 AM PST by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: chajin

So you believe that the “knowledge of good and evil” FRUIT was mostly about sex? I’ve always lacked understanding on this. I certainly didn’t think it was about eating a apple.


29 posted on 12/23/2016 9:21:34 AM PST by boycott (S)
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To: boycott

It’s an interesting theory that has some logical support, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say that I believe it :-)

There is a third possibility between the two, that God may have meant the name of the tree at its face value meaning, but that by the time of David the phrase had become a euphemistic reference to sex, perhaps because of people reading the story and seeing all the sexual references. Only God knows.


30 posted on 12/23/2016 10:57:37 AM PST by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: chajin

To be honest, those writings are so old and so bereft of detail that I’m always reticent to search for too much meaning beyond the clear meaning of the words being used.

But it just means I need to consider context more as I study. A friend of mine that actually went to seminary said that one of the problems with such an education is that every student is required to take a scripture and come up with a meaning nobody has come up with before. Now, that can be a really good thing for a lot of reasons. The problem is that no small number of times they come up with meaning that, in reality, is simply not there. An example would be homosexuals claiming Sodom was destroyed because of poor hospitality.


31 posted on 12/23/2016 2:06:40 PM PST by Mr. Douglas (Today is your life. What are you going to do with it?)
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To: Salvation

I’m going to guess that “trouble finding a parking place” isn’t the right answer ...


32 posted on 12/23/2016 2:11:11 PM PST by x
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