Pope, in interview, laments ‘rigidity’ of youth who prefer Latin Mass [Catholic Caucus]

Catholic World News ^ | November 11, 2016

[Buckeye McFrog]

Mass does not have to be in Latin and, in fact, has generally not been so since the Vatican II council in the early 1960’s.

The current position of the Church is that Mass should be said in the local language of the people so that it can be understood. Seems incredibly rational to me.

Some older Catholics who remember the Latin Mass are nostalgic for it and find it a comfort. There is one Parish here that says them regularly. I don’t know who these “rigid young Catholics” are that they say demand a Latin Mass. Most people I know who attend them are over 60.

I never learned Latin, so as a Catholic a Mass in that language would be pretty pointless to me.

[independentmind]

I think the Pope misunderstands much, and this is just another example.

One of the attractions of the Latin Mass is its otherworldliness, which is like a tonic in our very profane culture.

[Dr. Morrall]

It doesn’t, but in the West it has been said in Latin for centuries. For the same reason, at the colleges in England, grace before meals and some debates are carried on it Latin. Latin is the mother tongue of the West, and it could be understood across Europe. It allowed people from Hungary to Ireland and from North Africa to Scandinavia to follow the most important activity of their week. (It is untrue that people of the Middle Ages were stupid. While many might have been unschooled, most spoke and understood more than one language, and Latin was one they heard and, due to its inheritance from the Roman people, appreciated.) I studied Latin, and I miss the language at Mass.

[miss marmelstein]

This is the first Pope who reminds me of Norm Crosby.

[miss marmelstein]

It’s universal. One language for everyone. The Mass is not a difficult text. I knew it in Latin back and forth as a child.

[Salvation]

Catholic Caucus thread. Don’t engage the non-Catholic on the thread. Send them a private message instead.

[pax_et_bonum]

I agree: St. Michael the Archangel.

[Claud]

As a point of inquiry only: why does the Mass have to be in Latin? Just curious. No debate intended.

Speaking as someone who goes to the Latin Mass almost exclusively, I'd answer (perhaps surprisingly) that actually the Mass *doesn't* have to be in Latin. The issue is much deeper than that.

When they switched the Mass from Latin to English they also completely revised the liturgical books. The Mass changed so much between 1962 and 1970 that they essentially created a completely new liturgy with new texts, new postures, new folksy music instead of chant, etc....quite aside from the translation.

Many of us that have come to be dissatisfied with the 1970 liturgy have asked for (and received) permission to go back to the 1962 books, which was still in Latin. We find it more reverent, more conducive to prayer, and generally more true to Catholic doctrine. And many of us love the Latin language too, no doubt about that. :)

That said, if an English version of the traditional liturgy were available, I would be quite happy. When they created the Anglican Ordinariates we actually got something like that. I do attend those Masses on occasion and find them vastly superior to the 1970 English Mass. Anglicans have been *much* better than we have about making English sound beautiful and reverent.

Also, since some of the greatest liturgical texts have been written in Latin and attracted the interests of great composers (Dies Irae, Mass settings, etc.) it seems really myopic to completely sever that connection. We have 1500 years of beautiful Latin music and compositions....why throw those out?

[pbear8]

You say that you are seeking information and I will answer in that spirit. Holy Mass is the penultimate worship of Holy God. As the Church grew the largest language group spoke Latin, that is not to say that other liturgical languages did not exist, in fact they still do. But the majority had Latin and so the development was organic.

Once the Church spread, a universal language and form was kept to preserve the worship of the Apostles, doctrinal purity, and to keep the clergy from making themselves the center of attention as human beings are wont to do.

A universal language also undid the punishment of Babel.

[Buckeye McFrog]

It’s universal. One language for everyone.

Spoken by almost no one. Why not Esperanto?

[caddie]

It is the way (pretty much word for word) Mass was said thousands of years ago.

Parts of the Canon (Consecration) are the holiest parts of the Mass and the translations are not as good as the Latin in conveying the prayer.

Latin is harder to hide ambiguity in.

Love for the Latin Mass encourages contemplation, thinking, quiet, sincere worship.

Latin is a reaction to the back-slapping, high-fiving hipsterism of Vatican 2 reforms, many of which encouraged abuses of the Mass.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I understand this, and I appreciate the appropriateness of your question and the fact that you are not "debating.".

You may have to get a better perspective from another Catholic FReeper. Myself, I highly value the Latin Mass --- and sing in my parish's little bitty Latin schola because I love its sheer beauty, its obeisance to the Great King expressed in every gesture, as well as its strong sense of centuries-and-continents-spanning continuity.

I like to tell my Trad friends I love the TLM because that's the Mass that brought Thomas Merton and Dorothy Day into the Church. (You may not get what I'm saying here, but it's a wink-nudge.)

Nevertheless, the Mass does not "have" to be in Latin, and in acme Catholic Churches has never or rarely been in Latin since the time of the Apostles. Remember there is mote the Catholic Church than the Latin Rite.

[Luircin]

I admit I’m not Catholic, and I don’t understand worship that I can’t... well, understand.

Having said that, traditional worship is traditional for a reason. And that’s because it’s tried and tested, and it works!

[Mrs. Don-o]

This is indeed a strikingly valuable characteristic of the Latin Church, and yet...

See #32

[Rashputin]

"I admit I’m not Catholic, . . ."

That's Ok, there's really no such thing as a Catholic Caucus thread and no such thing as a rule against personal attacks, either. (Not that I'm accusing you of making a personal attack, just making a point with regard to there being rules and then there being "rules")

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Some" churches, not "acme" churches.

Sheesh.

My Auto-Correct is on occasion possessed by --- well, little demons, but demons.

[miss marmelstein]

I’m sure the Pope would love an Esperanto Mass as well as one in Ebonics.

Latin was used, brilliantly, across the entire world so that no matter where one visited or lived, an individual could understand it. Why this is so difficult for some post Vatican 2 Catholics to understand, is beyond me.

Of course, if the Pope is right, there are many young people who do get it and want the Latin Mass.

[Let's Roll]

” I knew it in Latin back and forth as a child.”

So, did I.

[NewJerseyJoe]

>> Most people I know who attend them are over 60.

I've been attending the Traditional Latin Mass for nearly 25 years, all over the country, and the attendees are predominantly under 50. And large families with numerous children.

>> I never learned Latin, so as a Catholic a Mass in that language would be pretty pointless to me.

I never learned Latin either, but I have zero problems following in the missal -- and I've actually picked up a fair amount of Latin just from faithfully attending Mass.

[Let's Roll]

Hey, Dope, I think you have more important things to worry about like the slime invaders of Italy demanding that Italy builds mosques for them - you know the places they will use for armories and terror planning.

And if Italy doesn’t, they threaten to attack the Vatican. But maybe you won’t be home when they do.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3492824/posts