Thanksgiving and the Eucharist

CatholicExhcange.com ^ | 11-26-15 | Marcellino D'Ambrosio, Ph.D.

[Salvation]

November 26, 2015

Thanksgiving and the Eucharist

Marcellino D'Ambrosio, Ph.D.

For Americans, the term "Thanksgiving" conjures up images of turkey and cranberry sauce, parades and bowl games. These "traditions" have come to mark an event made a perpetual institution of American life by President Abraham Lincoln.

But why did Lincoln proclaim the last Thursday in November as a national holiday? Because it was clear to him that the blessings of food, land, family, and freedom enjoyed by Americans are all gifts from the Creator. But Americans, he realized, had forgotten this. A special day was needed for us to forget our differences and remember our blessings. And remembering naturally leads to giving thanks to the Source of those blessings.

The Israelites had an annual Thanksgiving Feast, as well. It was actually a combination of two feasts, Passover and Unleavened bread, and occurred in early spring. This is when the first grain began to be harvested and when the ewes gave birth to their lambs. The pagan Canaanites had already celebrated the feast of unleavened bread at this time to thank the gods for the harvest and offer them the first fruits as a sacrifice of gratitude. The pagan Bedouins, wandering from place to place with their flocks, celebrated the spring gift of lambs by sacrificing some of them to the gods in gratitude for the gift of fertility.

The ancients did not need divine revelation to know that divine forces brought about the world and all its creatures. That's just plain common sense. That we owe these divinities a debt of gratitude is justice, pure and simple.

But for the Jews, Passover was not just giving thanks for the blessings of creation. For them, God was not just the author of nature with it seasons and life-cycles. No, God was also the master of history. Among all ancient peoples, only the Jews believed that God entered into human history, manifested his love and power, and acted decisively to save his chosen people. So while the pagans thanked their gods each spring for the blessings of food and fertility, the Israelites thanked the Lord for food, but even more, for freedom. They remembered not only that creation comes from Him, but that salvation from slavery as well. This remembering happens each year in a solemn way in the Passover Meal that is the climax of the Jewish year.

On the night before he died, Jesus celebrated this solemn memorial by deepening its meaning yet further. Liberation from Pharaoh's oppression was certainly something to sing about. But there was a crueler slavery that a change of geography and regime could not alter. This slavery to Satan was kept in force through the shackles of sin. Just as he acted through Moses to free his people from Pharaoh, God was now about to act decisively to liberate his people from the ancient curse. But this time, he would act personally, not through proxies.

And this liberation would be more costly. The only way that it could be won would be if God were to give not only his blessings, but His very self. To do this, God had become man, capable of offering the supreme sacrifice. And before he did it in actual fact, he did it in sacrament by offering himself under the unassuming forms of bread and wine. Before delivering himself into the hands of the Romans to be their victim, he delivered himself into our hands to be our nourishment.

For his aim was not just to open the way to future bliss in heaven. His plan was to pour into our wounds the balm of Gilead that would begin the healing process here and now. The bite of the serpent had injected venom. His body and blood would be the antidote, the "medicine of immorality" in the words of St. Ignatius of Antioch.

Blood brings nourishment and life to every cell of our bodies. It also carries away impurities that poison our system. The Eucharist offers us a transfusion–we put aside our old life and receive his ever-new life. We exchange his divine vitality for our tired, toxic blood. The life of a thing is in its blood. Blood was poured out at the foot of the altar and could never be consumed by a Jew, for it belonged to God alone. But here God pours out his own blood at the altar of the cross gives it to us as our drink, for the transformation of our lives.

"Do this in memory of me." We are commanded to remember the supreme love of Christ for us that holds nothing back, that gives everything for our freedom. So naturally the sacrificial banquet of remembrance is called the Eucharist, or "thanksgiving." The priest introduces the great central prayer of the celebration with these words: "let us give thanks to the Lord our God." And we respond "it is right to give him thanks and praise."

During the Eucharistic Prayer, I always silently add thanks for my personal blessings. I think of the natural blessings of home and work, of food on the table and the health of my family. I also thank God for my own salvation history, especially for plucking me out of the dangerous crowd I was running with as a teenager. I thank God for bringing me together with a woman who loves him and loves me, and for having kept us faithful to him and each other for many years and blessed us with wonderful children who love him. I thank him for our own family's salvation history.

If you haven't already established the habit of adding your personalized thank-you's to the priest's Eucharistic Prayer, try it next time you're at Mass. It's a very appropriate mode of participating in that part of the Eucharist.

But true thanksgiving is not just a matter of words and warm sentiments. Gratitude for a gift means offering a gift in return. He gave his whole, entire self to us–his body, blood, soul, divinity. The only adequate response would be to offer ourselves. Note what Paul says in his letter to the Romans: “I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship” (Rom 12:1).

So thanksgiving cannot be separated from sacrifice. The Mass is a celebration of his love and the freedom it won for us through his sacrifice. Through it, the love of God is poured into our hearts and enables us to love with his love. In the power of that love, we offer ourselves back to him and enter into that sacrifice which we celebrate.

True thanksgiving means self-giving. This is the meaning of eucharist.

[Salvation]

True thanksgiving means self-giving. This is the meaning of eucharist.

[Salvation]

Paul says in his letter to the Romans: “I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.” (Rom 12:1).

Catholic Ping!

[Salvation]

Paul says in his letter to the Romans: “I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.” (Rom 12:1).

Catholic Ping!

[HiTech RedNeck]

It will move us to acts of love, which mirror the love Christ gave on the Cross. And those are self giving, not self getting.

The symbols used in the evangelical churches are to highlight the real thing that Jesus did, and for that thing we give great thanks. A couple weeks ago, when the Baptist church I go to had this observation, we played “It Is Well With My Soul.” One verse goes: “My sin, oh the bliss of this wondrous thought — my sin, not the part, but the whole — is nailed to the Cross and I bear it no more; praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!”

In the face of this, to dispute about technicalities seems virtually beyond the point. Are you remembering what Christ did on the cross for you, whether or not you believe you can claim to have a “physical sample” of it? Because if not received with the specific gratitude for its specific purpose, it is in vain.

[Mark17]

Horatio G Spofford must have had the patience of Job.

[BlueDragon]

True thanksgiving means self-giving. This is the meaning of eucharist.

True?

No, the truth is the Greek root word from which the word eucharist is derived more fundamentally means thankfulness, giving of thanks, thanksgiving, etc.

Yet what a carefully constructed concoction & mishmash of assertions this article you bring us here is, confusing as it does one precise thing for yet something else.

Part of the problem here is how the 'Catholic' author, following the peculiar twists present within theology which gradually arose by way of clericalism (rather than be actual Apostolic tradition, as that was more originally) is conflating the giving of thanks unto God by membership of the Christian Church ('Church' here not to be confused with, or else limited to being the Roman Catholic Church) into being the very sacrifice of Christ, himself while the peculiar theology requires interventions of a priest-class in order to maintain the claim that it is only *they* (and none other) who make Him to be present among those gathered in His name...

How so utterly 'Catholic' (yet in process revealing without realizing so the methodology of the error-makings) as differing things (Christ's own sacrifice, compared to our own thankfulness in receiving His abundant blessing) are blurred together obscuring identities, thus obscuring simpler truths of the matter in all the striving and reaching --- which in the end puts near-to impossible demands upon people, requiring them to be super-duper "religious" and thus obtain 'spirituality' by way of their own fastidious religiosity.

But hey, what a great (and quite cunning) plan on the part of the clerics -- leave the esoteric matters and super-duper spirituality to us --- your overlords--- whom you must obey or else offend God Himself, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Further, as this article attempts to reach for;
I suppose anything will do in Roman Catholic efforts to theologically hi-jack the tradition of thankfulness which began on this continent with Puritans, and was later referenced by Abraham Lincoln in his own hope of finding some way to heal & unite people of this nation in thanksgiving & humility unto God ---despite the horrific warfare that men were at that time engaging in.

Thanksgiving is what the word says that it is, thanksgiving offered unto God, not some "sacrifice" on our own part that is comparable to Christ's own sacrifice.

Thanksgiving itself is no sacrifice, unless being thankful to God is being likened unto some kind of chore.

Is it a chore to tell somebody "thank you"?

Let us not confuse giving of thanks with offering unto God sacrifice of praise, for those two also can be distinguished as differing, not being entirely the same thing.

[Bigg Red]

This is beautiful. Thanks.

[HiTech RedNeck]

He knew the peace of God amidst a horribly trying circumstance. I do not know what his history was leading into it, but wouldn’t be surprised to see a story of preparation.

[HiTech RedNeck]

You’re right that the two aren’t the same. There’s a link, however, which is why it might be confused.

Thanksgiving from the heart will move us to share agape love with others, to “comfort others with the comfort with which we have been comforted.” It seems terribly selfish not to.

And it’s right, we can’t turn this into a ritual that is supposed to have efficacy in and of itself (rather than reminding us to take the proper attitude towards what Christ has done) without losing the meaning. This is one of those things that can’t be believed halfway. Either you do or you don’t. Communion as I know it, at least, is a wonderful time to meet afresh with the spirit of Christ in the aspect that was expressed on the Cross. Usually I find myself weeping in gratitude for it. I don’t expect the communion elements to have turned into that. This would be like expecting to paint a lily gold. It just suffocates the lily and hides its inherent living beauty.

[BlueDragon]

You're right that the two aren't the same. There's a link, however, which is why it might be confused.

Thank you for understanding.

Over and again I see things being mixed and confused for reason of there being linkage.

The writer;

Marcellino D'Ambrosio, Ph.D. Piled High & Deeper

The rhetorical gamesmanship never ends with some of these people. It's like they are wandering around half-blind, thinking they have caught glimpses of great & beautiful things. Wise men...describing the elephant that they've never much touched, nor heard ROAR quite nearby to themselves, but going by what other blind men (who went to see the elephant) had described...

[HiTech RedNeck]

When people expect something of God, God often doesn’t disappoint, even when they’re expecting something less than what the truth is.

This is why, I believe, it is important to approach God always with the attitude He can do “far above all we ask or think.” So if we’re thinking too little of Him, He can raise our view up.

I have to admire the way the Roman Catholic church goes big with its feast to a cathedral building. Well at least it isn’t something little. That’s a start. However the idea of a physical thing as being more important than a spiritual thing strikes me as kind of backwards. Christ took on a physical existence by way of STOOPING to us. There isn’t any more need for Him to stoop. He’s raised US up. If He yet DID stoop, and sometimes He does, it would be out of pity for the weak state of our faith.

[Kolokotronis]

BD, your exposition of the origin of the English word “Eucharist” from Strong is absolutely correct. The word in its various Greek forms is used throughout the Orthodox Divine Liturgy which is more than 1600 years old with elements as old as the third century.

I find this particular article odd and distinctly modern and Western, which of course makes sense considering who wrote it and when. Here is what one of the greatest of the Desert Fathers, +Mark the Ascetic (5th century) said about Eucharistia:

“Bring before your eyes the blessings, whether physical or spiritual, conferred on you from the beginning of your life down to the present, and call them repeatedly to mind in accordance with the words: ‘Forget not all His benefits’ (Ps. 102:2). Then your heart will readily be moved to the fear and love of God, so that you repay Him, as far as you can. by your strict life, virtuous conduct, devout conscience, wise speech, true faith and humility - in short, by dedicating your whole self to God. When you are moved by the recollection of all these blessings which you have received through God’s loving goodness, your heart will be spontaneously wounded with longing and love through this recollection or, rather, with the help of divine grace.”

[Campion]

I get a headache just reading your prose.

The application of the word "eucharist" (thanksgiving) to the Divine Liturgy comes directly from the Gospels, where it says that Jesus "took bread" and "gave thanks". The Greek word for "give thanks" is the verb form of the word from which we get the word "eucharist". Very simple, very straightforward, very Scriptural.

To posit some sort of opposition between "giving thanks" and "offering sacrifice," well, perhaps you should take that up with God-the-Father, who instituted a "thank offering" in the Old Testament, and God-the-Son, who fulfilled that institution in the Last Supper.

[BlueDragon]

I get a headache just reading your prose.

Hey, way to go. Start things off on note of personal criticism--- which has nothing at all to do with the subject matter itself but is form of ad hominem attack. In the end, that's all you've got, so I guess it figures that you'd lead off with it.

Meanwhile, I recall thousands of headaches which I've been forced to endure when dealing with convoluted Romish reasoning. Not that I cannot unravel the mysteries (with the leading and assistance of the Lord's spirit) but that it is often a real pain, since it it so often so ("T" for "tangled") T.U.B.A.R. .

You guys continually supply headaches of that sort, and then attack anyone who bothers to point out how deeply and thoroughly TUBAR Romish-tinted theology itself (and the shifty argumentative supplied in support of the inherent shifting/trans-positioning sort of errors) can be.

The Greek word for "give thanks" is the verb form of the word from which we get the word "eucharist". Very simple, very straightforward, very Scriptural.

Yes, like I said myself, and provided a link to Strong's concordance while I was at it.

To posit some sort of opposition between "giving thanks" and "offering sacrifice," well, perhaps you should take that up with God-the-Father...

Did you not just agree that the [transliterated Greek] word eucharistia referred to giving thanks? The word "eucharist" itself does not mean sacrifice, period.

I was not "positing some form of opposition" between thanksgiving and sacrifice (as you put it, attempted to make it out that I was), but instead was pointing out the clear differences in the very meanings of those two words.

What flaw is there in doing so? You could not say what that was, but instead instructed me to "take it up with God-the-Father..." while vaguely referencing OT "thank offerings".

Hey, great. I suppose I should drag Romish conceptions and substitutional misunderstanding wherein the words are confused/conflated as to meaning the same thing, and then anachronistically apply that confusion to OT priestly offerings in order to be able to puzzle out the riddle you just rudely handed to me.

I already know what that mishmash of confusion needs in order to make it appear to function --- and so reject it.

Is it a pain, or some kind of chore on our own part to offer thanks for the sacrifice which Christ made? Ask yourself that.

If it is a form of sacrifice on our own part, namely, a "sacrifice of praise" in our own remembrances of Christ's own bodily sacrifice, let us not confuse our own responses to Him with being Him and His own sacrifice made for us, shall we?

That sacrifice on his own part is what makes it possible for the Holy Lord God to enter into fellowship with ourselves, and ourselves in return to 'sup with' Him, would you not agree?

Let us not confuse the ending results ----that is Himself entering into fellowship with us, and our own communing with Him--- with His own sacrifice which allows this reconciliation to occur. Is that too much to ask?

Here is the portion of the article which I objected to, the very portion the one who calls herself 'Salvation' choice to highlight;

True thanksgiving means self-giving. This is the meaning of eucharist.

Who is responsible for the various confusions surrounding this issue, but 'Catholic' clerics who at certain places within their own theology make it out to be that *they* are as Christ Himself upon earth? They have corrupted their own liturgy with their own suppositions that they are Christ --- if but at brief moments within presentation of Liturgy.

I think it's not my "prose" which is a pain to you as as much as it is my own uncovering of 'Catholic' error of this kind, brought to the world by way of clericalism --- not inerrantly sent by God as Roman Catholics continue to assume & allege.

We are not Him, and He is not us, unless all lose their own separate identities. If that were to be the aim of the Lord -- then why create man in the first place? We, as sons and daughters of men, can never become God, for we all, as created beings, have our own beginnings.

[BlueDragon]

Psalm 100:4

Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name. (KJV)

[Kolokotronis]

“We are not Him, and He is not us, unless all lose their own separate identities. If that were to be the aim of the Lord — then why create man in the first place? We, as sons and daughters of men, can never become God, for we all, as created beings, have our own beginnings.”

Well,

“Three realities pertain to God: essence, energy, and the triad of divine hypostases. As we have seen, those privileged to be united to God so as to become one spirit with Him - as St. Paul said, ‘He who cleaves to the Lord is one spirit with Him’ (I Cor. 6:17) - are not united to God with respect to His essence, since all theologians testify that with respect to His essence God suffers no participation.

Moreover, the hypostatic union is fulfilled only in the case of the Logos, the God-man.

Thus those privileged to attain union with God are united to Him with respect to His energy; and the ‘spirit’, according to which they who cleave to God are one with Him, is and is called the uncreated energy of the Holy Spirit, but not the essence of God...” +Gregory Palamas

You may find this thought provoking:

http://www.antiochian.org/content/theosis-partaking-divine-nature

[BlueDragon]

Thank you for the polite replies.

Thus those privileged to attain union with God are united to Him with respect to His energy; and the 'spirit', according to which they who cleave to God are one with Him, is and is called the uncreated energy of the Holy Spirit, but not the essence of God..."

"...united to Him in respect to His energy".

Well and good enough --- yet we are even then still not Him (as what you have cited otherwise does admit) although I do hope and pray that many will be found "hid" within Him (Christ), found in the Lamb's book of life.

As for the link in regard to theosis, what is the ending result of "study" of that approach, but to seemingly make it out to be as if God is accessible chiefly through asceticism, instead of varying degree of asceticism be among result of the spirit working within? Speaking of thought provoking think that one over.

To be fair, among the plentiful writings there (you expect me to discuss THAT here? sheesh!) there was some mention & acknowledgement of the process functioning in that direction (the flow being from Him), yet there were other things on that page which in context make it out to be as "works", making things appear to be one must first be an 'ascetic' in order to earn what the Lord would desire to give of Himself to mankind whom He created in his image.

The Lord God laid no such burdens upon the first man, Adam, but instead His spirit (it is written) walked with him, in the garden. The walking with ended right about the time Adam hid himself, but that's a story for another day. 8^')

Let us look at one passage which is quoted at the link which you provided;

Galatians 2:20: "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me."

What then would the synergists among the Orthodox (and others) have to "synergize"?

Does Christ need to be synergized with Himself? How could that be? He is as the Ancient of Days, not created but having been in the heart of the Father, all along --- eternally, having no beginning, and no end, in that way covering and being Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.

Can it be inferred;

If one is truly dead to this world, regenerated by the spirit of God ---brought to life in that manner--- then it is Himself within ourselves which is that which is alive?

Or is there room there still, some small places and spaces as it were, for ourselves to exist as living, unlike the fallen nature, zombie-fied "world", that is partially alive but dead all the same, the "undead" which will eventually find it's own permanent death and destruction?

Although the immediately above is not the milk of the Word (but is instead the "bad news" truth which the Good News truth is remedy for) those who focus and teach only of the milk of the word are described by the apostle Paul as being ""unskillful in the Word". Yet notice that Paul did not say that they were entirely in error.

Take care to not use so much meat of the Word that one chokes off the children's milk, eh? Even a grown man requires refreshing drink. And yes, in this context to partake of the milk of the word can be to drink of the living waters, which one simply must drink of, to then have that flow from within himself, for that milk does (or at least should, if process of growth not be hindered, or too soon interrupted) become the meat eventually, at least according to the way of the natural world --- you know, the one which God created and said was good? Not to be confused with "the way of the world" when referring to the ways of men in what they most often (according to the "fallen" sinful and "fleshly" nature) think most important...

The OT admonition;

"...Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk."

is not repeated 3 times, for nothing.

Don't believe me? Well then -- can you walk on water? No?

Then why not run off to the desert until you learn how? I ask that so brusquely since the "Orthodox" link you provided comes across as demanding that all should be so "ascetic" they could walk on water, or perhaps float around on prayer rugs maybe.

[Kolokotronis]

“Then why not run off to the desert until you learn how? I ask that so brusquely since the “Orthodox” link you provided comes across as demanding that all should be so “ascetic” they could walk on water, or perhaps float around on prayer rugs maybe.”

Not demanding, BD. But dying to the self so that the eye of the soul, the nous, becomes so clear that we can experience the “uncreated light of God” like at Mt. Tabor, isn’t so likely to happen in “the world”. Ascetism, hesychastism, is “easier” to practice in solitude, in the “Desert”. Nowadays hsycastism is usually practiced in monasteries but by grace we can experience it in the world.

As for flying around, walking on water, that sort of thing, well, yes, theosis, fulfilling our created purpose, becoming “like God” would probably include those, other things too.

[BlueDragon]

Not demanding, BD.

Sorry, but denials that there is a near-impossible standard that is being held aloft as the standard which must be met is quite demanding, I don't care what you, or anyone else says.

But dying to the self so that the eye of the soul, the nous, becomes so clear that we can experience the "uncreated light of God" like at Mt. Tabor, isn't so likely to happen in "the world".

Isn't so likely to happen??? Do you have any idea who you are talking to???

First off, the alleged Mt. Tabor story is just that. A story. A second-hand story at very best -- no, scratch that, unless you can bring me first-person witness account of such a thing, traceable enough through reasonable chain-of-custody examination as for sourcing, then that story most certainly cannot be chalked up so casually as being as fruit of asceticism, or some such "dying to self so that the eye of the soul, the nous, becomes so clear" --- as seemingly that is what is being credited.

Cannot you see that works of religion is what is being credited? Might as well be a Buddhist then, or a Sufi whirling and twirling around prior to flying off, and away...

Secondly, that very thing ---- being surrounded by, in the midst of "uncreated light from God" as you chose to put it, has "happened" to me!

I'm no "ascetic", and so do not ( and cannot) account for that occurrence being due to my own having 'died to self' sufficiently enough ---not when compared to idealistic representations of mystics of past ages, anyway. Perhaps the Lord has other, and better plans? He surely did then, when He miraculously intervened & saved me. This is not the only time I have have heard Him "yell" at me to save my life, either.

This happened years ago now, more than thirty years ago, when I was being held at gunpoint by a Satan worshiper who was planing on raping my (then) skinny white backside.

I resisted, and would not submit -- thinking "God is watching me". Then the guy, while standing about ten feet (or a little less?) away from me, racked the bolt of the rifle he was pointing towards me.

Just at the point --- right after hearing the sound of that, watching what I thought was a round being chambered --- which drove me right to the verge of breaking down and begin blubbering pleading for my life--- the voice of the Lord said to me internally very loudly, yelling at me;

BE CALM!

Unless (or until?) you have God YELL at yourself loudly like that -- I'm not sure you could understand what that is like, yet I take it you might be able to imagine what it must be like?

There is nothing comparable to the sound of THAT voice, I can tell you that honestly.

And unlike the Mt. Tabor 'story', which comes from who knows where -- Imyself am telling you directly what has happened to myself in the past, which means that I am telling you FIRST-HAND. Understand the difference?

Imagine what it must be like to have people tell you things -- but have one's own experiences with the Lord, and His Spirit provide varying amounts of refutation to the claims and 'story-telling' justifications for this or that alleged teaching?

Who would you trust? The Lord, and what you've been shown by Him, what you've lived through being saved by Him --- or people who are telling you all about Him, themselves obtaining such knowing coming only through the hands of many people who are not around any longer to verify, or else disavow, and/or clarify whatever further questions there may be?

It was no 'suggestion' or 'gentle reassurance' coming from God, but was a firm order --- and hearing that within myself -- it was not His 'still small voice', nor was it in any way my own thought-voice, either. I am simply not THAT powerful.

It WAS LOUD. Unmistakable, and more frightening than being held at gunpoint by a Satan worshiper. I suppose He had to yell at me in that way, in order to break through and get my full attention so that I would be more in fear of Him than I was of being shot (and worse) right there and THEN.

At first I momentarily doubted, my own first instinct being to disobey --- but when I stopped myself -- calmed myself for what small measure I could, taking a breath and not giving in to the panic-mode I had just been on the cusp of falling into --- then I sensed His power & Spirit fill me, washing over me, and I was flooded with a "peace which surpasses understanding".

I stood for a moment there...then noticed that the Satan worshiper's face was trembling -- even his eyes were moving around independent of one another (!).

I marveled at that, wondering --- "whatever could this guy be so afraid of? He's the one with with the gun..."

So I looked around searching for the reason. I noticed there was a "light" as it were, a glow in that portion of the room we were in. Looking right and left around me, it dawned on me that I was standing in the center of where the "light" seemed to be coming from.

I did manage to escape that would-be rapist/murderer. I found out later that he was widely known in the area as being a genuine sick-O. Yet I must confess that I did not immediately do as the Lord next instructed (right after I had noticed where the light seemed to be coming from) which was "walk out of the room". At that point, I was still afraid of the gun...and the guy holding it.

Perhaps the Lord said "now walk out of the room" or "now leave", I do not recall the precise words He said to me just then, although I can say that I am accurately enough relating the experience, and He was not yelling when He told me to walk away --- which at the moment I did understand He meant, like 'right now'.

Can you better now understand my objections to this seeming burdening of people with calls towards 'asceticism'? Do not fully rush so to put the cart before (in front of) the horse, maybe...?

Moses going up to the Mount and meeting there with the Lord, although that second time he went for forty days, he was still fasting --- did not come down from that mountain glowing because he had been fasting.

As for flying around, walking on water, that sort of thing, well, yes, theosis, fulfilling our created purpose, becoming 'like God' would probably include those, other things too.

Then why are you still here posting to me on this forum? The Desert calls. Become "like God". Walk on waters ---there? There are many images of shimmering waters there, many appearing there (in the Desert) to walk towards, in the heat of the day.

[Kolokotronis]

I don’t set limits on God, BD. Certainly Holy Orthodoxy doesn’t. I believe what you have written. I know that you are not the only person by any means to have experienced that uncreated light; not the only person who has experienced it in “the world”.

“I’m not sure you could understand what that is like, yet I take it you might be able to imagine what it must be like?”

Yes.

“Might as well be a Buddhist then, or a Sufi whirling and twirling around prior to flying off, and away...”

The Fathers wrote of the “sporoi tou Theou”, the seeds of God and said they were everywhere. As I said, Orthodoxy does not set limits on God. We know that our theosis, our salvation is found within the community of The Church through and in Christ. We don’t know where else it is found, maybe nowhere or maybe somewhere else by and through Christ.

You might want to read the theological poetry of Symeon the New Theologian (10th century). He had similar experiences:

By what boundless mercy, my Savior,
Have you allowed me to become a member of your body?
Me, the unclean, the defiled, the prodigal.
How is it that you have clothed me
With the brilliant garment,
Radiant with the splendor of immortality,
That turns all my members into light ?
Your body, immaculate and divine,
Is all radiant with the fire of your divinity,
With which it is ineffably joined and combined.
This is the gift you have given me, my God:
That this mortal and shabby frame
Has become One with your immaculate body
And that my blood has been mingled with your blood.
I sense too that here I have been made one with your divinity,
And have even become your own most pure body:
A brilliant member lucidly transparent,
Luminous and holy.
I see the beauty of it all, I can gaze upon your radiance.
I have become a reflection of the light of your grace.

and

Do not say that without His presence it is possible to be saved.
Do not say that one can possess the Spirit
Even if one is not consciously aware of it.
Do not say that God cannot be seen by human beings.
Do not say that humans may never see the light of God;
Or at least that it is not possible for this generation.
My friends this is never impossible.
It is more than possible for those who desire it.

or

I see the unseeable beauty,
That unapproachable light, that unbearable glory.
My mind is completely astounded.
I tremble with fear.
I found Him whom I had seen from afar,
The One Stephen saw when the heavens opened,
And later whose vision blinded Paul.
Indeed he was a fire in the center of my heart.
I was outside myself. I broke down, lost to myself,
And unable to bear the unendurable brightness of that glory.
And so, I turned,
And fled into the night of the senses.

and again:

Love came down, as is its way,
In the appearance of a luminous cloud.
I saw it fasten on me and settle on my head.
And it made me cry out, for I was so afraid;
Thus it flew away, and left me alone.
Then how ardently I searched after it;
And suddenly, completely,
I was conscious of it present in my heart,
Like a heavenly body.
I saw it like the disc of the sun.
It closed me off from the visible,
And joined me to invisible things.
It gave me the grace to see the Uncreated.

“The Desert calls.”

I have my own desert, BD. Sometimes part of it is right here though my spiritual father has cautioned me about this place, and rightly so at times. Like most Greeks, I tend to be disobedient, but God is merciful.