Is Catholicism about to break into three?

Crux ^ | October 6, 2015 | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

[metmom]

So which one would be THE one true, true church?

[redhead]

they always forget the Eastern Church, so please read “And Eastern Rites” into the Traditionalist column...

[Mrs. Don-o]

I thought he was Left.

[Mrs. Don-o]

This so-called Malachy Prophecy is not only NOT Catholic doctrine, it is not even private revelation: it's, as far as textual investigation can tell, a forgery.

St. Malachi died in the year 1148. The so-called prophecy was "discovered" in 1595. Significantly, the "prophecies" from the intervening 447 years (1148-1595) were a pretty good match (as they would be, if they were written after the fact!!) and the "prophecies" dealing with popes after 1595 are ludicrously vague, very much like the prophecies in fortune cookies.

They can all be nicely interpreted ex post facto, of course.

But the Church's attitude is that it's not private revelation, it's a forgery.

[NYer]

they always forget the Eastern Church, so please read “And Eastern Rites” into the Traditionalist column...

Agreed! Most of those liturgies draw directly from the synagogue worship service. Jesus was a Jew and the the Apostles set out to bring the "good news", first to the East and then to the West. Peter served as the bishop of Antioch before he went to Rome.

[ADSUM]

Take this with a grain of salt from a leftist professor.

Daniel Maguire of Marquette University, whose own college president admitted that the theologian’s views are “not totally consonant with Catholic teaching.”

The noble traditions of Judaism – ...
www.sacredchoices.org, 4 Aug 2014 [cached]
The noble traditions of Judaism – stressing justice for the downtrodden – are being soiled by the endless cruelties that Israel and its current leaders heap on the Palestinians, including the latest slaughter of more than 1,700 Gazans, many of them children, a moral catastrophe addressed by theologian Daniel C. Maguire.

In the spring of 2007, Daniel C. Maguire was condemned by U.S. bishops for his progressive writings, because, the New York Times reported, Maguire’s pamphlets on abortion and same-sex marriage “are written in a very popular and lively style, and from what the bishops knew, they were very widely distributed. Praised by Ms.magazine as one of “40 male heroes who took a chance for women,” Maguire is a noted theologian and ethicist whose controversial views and irreverent style have rankled conservatives for nearly thirty years. In this pithy guide to progressive Catholicism, Maguire shows how tragically far conservative Catholic politics have strayed from the best Catholic social teaching.
...
Daniel C. Maguire is Professor of Moral Theological Ethics at Marquette University and the president of the Religious Consultation on Population, Reproductive Health, and Ethics. His writing has appeared in the New York Times, The Atlantic Monthly and USA Today, and he has written several books, including Sacred Choices: The Right to Contraception and Abortion in Ten World Religions. He lives in Wisconsin.

[G Larry]

No, there are Catholics and then there are those who claim the affiliation but are quite willing to denounce essential elements of the faith.

It is one thing to fall short of living up to those essential elements, and quite another matter to denounce them.

[piusv]

What’s a magisterialist?

[G Larry]

“Martin Luther was Right.”

Are your referring to the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist or Mary’s perpetual virginity?

[BlatherNaut]

The jury is still out as to whether the Society of St. Pius X is formally in schism, but as traditionalists who reject the Novus Ordo Mass and the authority of the Second Vatican Council, they’re high on the list.

Such drivel. SSPX (unlike Gregory of Narek, Francis' new "Doctor of the Church") has never been in schism.

[BlackElk]

Daniel Maguire of Marquette may be a theologian of some sort but that sort is certainly not Roman Catholic regardless of his own long ago baptism and that of his now dead ancestors. Maguire has been a gross embarrassment for decades now and ought to have been formally excommunicated long ago for his publicly expressed infernal views on many matters Catholic and particularly on sexual morality.

When a Maguire writes as he has in this cited article, it is to set up false claims of moral equivalence between Catholics OTOH and pro-aborts, pro-sexual perversion folks, advocates of the "rights" of the divorced and remarried without annulment as though they were not divorced and remarried without annulment.

Maguire's modus operandi is to claim that pro-aborts, for example, are every bit as Catholic as members of the somewhat schismatic SSPX and SSPV, as two examples. I have made no secret of my own opposition to SSPX and SSPV as schismatic groups both of which reject the promise of Jesus Christ to be with HIS Church all days to the end of the world and pretentiously claim to be that church as opposed to the actual Roman Catholic Church HQ'd in the Vatican. Even I do not share Maguire's pretension that his favirite deviations from Catholic Truth are no more serious deviations than the somewhat innocent matters of liturgical taste that govern SSPX and SSPV.

God has protected his Church from popes far more foolish or negligent than Pope Francis. Alexander VI (Borgia) comes immediately to mind but there are numerous others.

What Maguire calls "Magisterial" Catholics are Catholics who mostly attend the Novus Ordo vernacular language Masses of the post-Vatican II era, accept the magisterial teachings of the Church and have a preference for music at Mass which does not praise pagan godesses like Gaia, secular economists like Marx or Lenin, but rather is rooted in the exceptionally high quality liturgical music of pre-Vatican II happy memory not the modern hootenanny festivals which afflict "progressive" venues. They believe in seven sacraments, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass even in a low rent liturgy but are recognizably Catholic in all respects.

As to "progressive""Catholicism," bear in mind that, untreated, cancer and tuberculosis and Alzheimers' are also "progressive" diseases as corrosive to the body as "progressive""Catholicism" is to the well-being of one's soul.

In Traditional circles, we have longed joked that the Third Secret of Fatima, given by Our Lady in 1917 to Lucia Santos, Francesco Marto and Jacinta Marto was: Whatever the Church may do in the future, do NOT hold a Council!

If any person who claims Catholicism agrees with Maguire that we need "diversity" of opinion WITHIN the Church and internal debate and similar heretical nonsense, that person should obtain a copy of Pope St. Pius X's brilliant encyclical Pascendi Domenici Gregis (On the Errors of the Modernists) defining the Modernist heresy as "the synthesis of all heresies" (published September 8, 1907) and its accompanying Lamentabile Sane, a Syllabus of Errors of the Modernists (published July 3, 1907), two documents of blazing clarity which make clear to any reader what "progressive""Catholicism" actually is, always has been and always will be: Heresy!

Those "Catholic" "churches" claiming Apostolic Succession through the Utrecht line of ecclesiastical rebellion have a name already and it is NOT Catholic. They are heretics, whatever their liturgy may be similar to, no matter what actual Catholic beliefs they may retain in some shadow form. They reject papal authority outright, reject papal infallibility as defined by Vatican I and solemnized as dogma by Pope Pius IX. They play at being "make believe" Catholic, a proposition toward which their common heresy gives the lie.

Catholic doctrine and dogma is not a do it yourself hobby, as we Catholics well understand.

[amorphous]

The wait to find out won’t be long now.

[Mrs. Don-o]

The “wait to find out” could be short, medium, or long, depending on how long the Lord delays. Yes, we are in the End Times: and have been since Pentecost, 33 AD.

[Sea Shell]

I was just asking myself the same question! Great minds think alike. :’)

[piusv]

Nevermind, I completely missed the reference.

I would argue that “Magisterial” Catholics do not “uphold traditional Catholic teaching in faith and morals” as long as they believe that Vatican II is Catholic (although I do believe that they are sincere).

[terycarl]

No....the Eastern schism many moons ago, will be resolved one of these days and the two will be as one again. The Church is universal and eternal, they need not hurry to do anything, they have until the end of time to preach their Gospel and so far, for 2,015 years, it has worked pretty well. When Christ promised to be with the Catholic church until the end of time, He wasn’t kidding.

[DuncanWaring]

I pronounce it “said-uh-vuh-CANT-ist”.

I could be wrong.

[cookcounty]

More likely that there will be a continuing and increased leakage of Catholics into four non-Roman Catholic groups:

Agnosticism
Evangelicalism
Traditionalist Protestantism (e.g., neo-Anglicanism)
Eastern Orthodoxy

[DuncanWaring]

...a Sedevacantist chapel.

How does one find one of those?

[terycarl]

Very happy that for the past 28 years I have been regularly attending a real mass at a Sedevacantist chapel. You can have the ‘new religion’ that was formed subsequent to Vatican II. This present evil one who some think is a true pope is nothing more or less than Satan’s disciple whose goal, as were those phonies subsequent to Pius XII, is to ruin Christ’s Church on earth. It’s been a howling success.

Actually they have been doing just fine, thank you...

dissidents have appeared over the years since people in the time of Christ...all have failed and all will fail.

The Catholic church is what the Catholic church is....if you don't agree...O.K., everyone is entitled to start his/her interpretation of what true Christianity is. I think that I will stick with the status quo and the present Pope. Do I agree with everything he says, of course not, he was raised and educated in a predominantly socialist country and has been influenced by that. Who cares, he has done nothing to weaken Catholic teaching and has merely expressed his own opinions, some of which I don't agree with......big deal...