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To: fulltlt

Didn’t carbon dating prove it was fake?

some couple claimed they took material from newer patch and not the original cloth ,but the image looks too much like painting of Jesus ,painted hundreds of years later


10 posted on 03/27/2015 2:56:53 PM PDT by molson209 (Blank)
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To: molson209

I’ve actually done a great deal, of study on this, and I think it is authentic. That paintings hundreds of years later resemble it is held not to disprove, but rather help prove, authenticity. Think about it: The followers of Jesus would essentially have what no one else would have for 1800 years, a photograph of their leader. Countless representations of Jesus for a millennium essentially have the same facial characteristics and hair. They resemble those seen on the shroud because they were making copies. The general consensus as to what Jesus looked like would continue, even if a given artist had no idea that what he was representing was descended from this original image.


15 posted on 03/27/2015 3:09:40 PM PDT by j.havenfarm
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To: molson209

Actually, the “image” is a 3-D replica that was “burned” into the shroud when Christ rose - not a painting - ala a micro Big Bang burst of energy.

Even 21st century technology cannot replicate that 3-D image.

Just that factoid certainly indicates the Shroud of Christ is not only real but proves He is exactly who He said He was.


20 posted on 03/27/2015 3:20:23 PM PDT by newfreep ("Evil succeeds when good men do nothting" - Edmund Burke)
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To: molson209
some couple claimed they took material from newer patch and not the original cloth....

Its not a "claim." Their research has been recognized by peer review, and endorsed by the lead researcher from the carbon dating project before his death.

...,but the image looks too much like painting of Jesus ,painted hundreds of years later

Has it never occurred to you the Shroud was the "model" rather than the other way round? This objection is meaningless.

21 posted on 03/27/2015 3:25:02 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: molson209; fulltlt
some couple claimed they took material from newer patch and not the original cloth ,but the image looks too much like painting of Jesus ,painted hundreds of years later

Which came first? The paintings, or the image on the Shroud? The fact is that iconography, the study of religious art, shows that artistic images of Jesus started looking like the image on the Shroud with the appearance of a "miraculous not-made-by-human-hands image of Jesus on a cloth" called the "Image of Edessa," that had been walled up above the main gate to the city of Edessa to prevent it being destroyed by Iconoclasts from the 2nd Century until the 5th Century when an Earthquake revealed it. The Image of Edessa was reported to have been merely a facial image. . . however when the Edessan image was brought to Constantinople on August 15, 944 AD, the Sermon of Gregory Referendarius, the Arch Deacon of the Hagia Sophia on its arrival, described the cloth as not just a facial image, but the whole body. Excerpts from the Sermon of Gregory Referendarius where he is describing the image:

". . . A second light, immaterial and unique, came devotedly from you, an unexpected and material intertwining, natures distantly embracing heaven and earth, one living being made of two opposites: your human image, food from the clouds, a river flowing from a dry rock, and what is genuinely new under the sun, you were born a man in these last times from a virgin mother. You wiped clean the sweat of the nature you had taken on and what was wiped clean was transformed into an image of your unchanging form, just like Adam's form was drawn out of the ground, like the eyes of nature in the folds of the kneaded earth. . .

. . . . For these are the beauties that have made up the true imprint of Christ, since after the drops fell, it was embellished by drops from his own side., Both are highly instructive – blood and water there, here sweat and image. Oh equality of happenings, since both have their origin in the same person. The source of living water can be seen and it gives us water, showing us that the origin of the image made by sweat is in fact of the same nature as the origin of that which makes the liquid flow from the side. . .

The only way that Gregory would be referring to an "unchanging form" and the wound in the side is if he had seen the Image of Edessa as a full figure image and not just a facial image.

It is thought that prior to coming to Constantinople, the Image of Edessa was encased in a lattice work frame. Drawings of the Image showed such a framework surrounding the image. When it arrived, it was probably taken out of the frame and exposed for what it truly was, the Shroud. It was reported to be a TetraDiplong. Double folded in Four. Folding the Shroud in such a fashion results in just the face showing and the Shroud has creases to this day from being folded in just such a fashion.

After 944 AD, the inventory of the religious relics held in Constantinople did not list the image of Edessa among the relics but did list, for the first time, the "Burial Shroud of Our Lord Jesus Christ".

36 posted on 03/27/2015 5:27:56 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: molson209

Almost like the Shroud image was the initial “model” for paintings of Christ that were then copied over and over again for centuries.


48 posted on 03/28/2015 10:44:54 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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