Latin Mass to be offered to mark reinterment of Richard III

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk ^ | March 4, 2015

[Shadow44]

Too bad he won’t be buried at York. That’s politics for you.

[Snickering Hound]

Murdered 2 kids. Leave him out in the parking lot.

[sneakers]

ping

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks sneakers. Henry VIIth should be dug up and given the old-school punishment for high treason.

[sneakers]

You’re welcome! And I agree!

[caddie]

A Royal turd reinterred.

Interesting how this usurper's foul acts circuitously led to Henry VII and Henry VIII, the Church of England, and gay clerics and gay marriage.

[agere_contra]

Henry VII had them murdered.

He blamed Richard III.

[submarinerswife]

Too bad he won’t be buried at York. That’s politics for you

That's the kicker, isn't it? With all the good intentions of the mass and feast, they should have buried him in the same place as would have happened in the 15th c. In a Yorkish cemetery or catacomb.

Do they have catacombs in the UK? Not the burial plots of royalty under the church but real Romanesque catacombs?

[submarinerswife]

The thing is, we don’t know what happened to the young princes in the tower. I took a college course recently on the Tudors and Stewart Dynasty and after 700yrs since, they still don’t know who made those boys disappear.

[NKP_Vet]

He was never charged and it was never proven that Richard III murdered the two children. Speculation yes, proven no.

[katana]

How did Henry Tudor pull off that trick while in exile gathering his small army in Brittany? I would think the reigning monarch would have better control of things in the Tower and Richard’s nephews, both of whom held better claims to Edward IV’s than him, were ostensibly under his protection as regent and then outright king. Henry certainly had a motive and Shakespeare was certainly a Tudor apologist, but that doesn’t automatically exonerate the bent backed fellow in charge.

[miss marmelstein]

If he had died naturally, he would have been buried in Westminster Abby where his Queen was interred. It's possible he wanted his family buried in York but not definitive.

[miss marmelstein]

Edward the Fourth’s son was declared illegitimate by Parliament - that’s why he could not ascend to the throne. If Edward the Fourth - the Bill Clinton of his day - had ever kept his pants on, none of this would have happened. Bishop Stillington did the right thing in bringing this story forward.

[Not gonna take it anymore]

Read Josephine Tey’s book “The Daughter of Time”. It’s an excellent argument for his innocence of this crime.

[agere_contra]

Henry VII killed them years after Richard III died.

They may have died at about the same time that Henry VII formally legitimized their elder sister Elizabeth of York by repealing Titulus Regius.

He did that to strengthen his own claim to the throne - but the moment he repealed Titulus Regius he also legitimized the Princes in the tower - who had far better claims than he did. This is why they had to die.

[katana]

Motive I understand, but the evidence? You seem so sure about this. The bodies were discovered a few years ago but how and when they died / were murdered remains as far as I know a mystery. Are you part of that group of Richard III admirers who were also skeptical about his spinal deformity?

[miss marmelstein]

Bodies of young people (sex was undetermined) were found in the 17th century, not recently. The sexes are unknown and it was found in a mix of animal bones. Richard the Third was found with a Roman-era arrow head near him - some two feet below the carpark; some think the youths may be from as early as the Roman era - the Tower was built on top of a Roman fort. I believe they were found 8 feet below.

[katana]

You're correct. I was recalling a story from the 1990's when two small unidentified lead coffins were found in a small vault next to one which contained the bodies, identified by markings, of two other of Edward's and Elizabeth's children. At the time it was speculated they were the bodies of the two missing princes and I must have remembered some of the wilder and less accurate reports. The Queen has not granted permission for that side chamber to be opened and those unidentified coffins to be examined so who or what's in them is still unknown. I did also read someone's opinion that Henry VII would be the one likely "suspect" in the princes' disappearance other than Richard III but also that their disappearance predates his accession to the throne and access to the Tower. So I agree it's possible Henry Tudor done the dirty deed but would, with all due respect, still consider Richard or one of his people as the lead suspect(s). I think you'd agree that differences of opinion are possible.

[miss marmelstein]

There’s no real evidence the boys died at all. They may have been smuggled out of England. All the Plantagenet children - including Richard - were often smuggled into Flanders during times of trouble. But it’s all speculation. Perhaps Perkin Warbeck was Richard, Duke of York. Even if the bones in the urn in Westminster Abby were found to be the princes, we still wouldn’t know who killed them or whether they died of illness. And if Richard had them killed - well, as Protector he was coming very close to being murdered himself. Most Protectors were murdered. But it would have been weirdly out of character.

Do you have a link or a hint about Edward’s other children? I’ve never heard of that. Are you thinking of Anne Mowbrey, Richard, Duke of York’s child bride? She was found fairly recently.