[RnMomof7]

Grace ping

[cuban leaf]

The most important word in the english language: Why

Faith enables works to be done for the right reason. Without faith, there is no way Abraham would have obeyed, or at least not for the right reason. It would have been out of abject fear.

It’s not what you do. It’s why you do it. To you obey God because you have faith that he has your back in the end, or do you obey God to be a “good boy” come “reading of the will” time.

The former is the higher path. It’s about “why”.

[Slyfox]

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

Faith is necessary but not sufficient works have a merit; i.e. one who gives a drink of cold water to a little one will not lose his reward.

[Rashputin]

More straw man trash. Faith and works are inseparable as anyone who reads all of what Christ said in John 3 rather than just the 16th verse can plainly see.

[YHAOS]

One’s faith makes One want to pay attention to good works.

[LearsFool]

You see that faith was working with his works, James continues to explain, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected. It is not that salvation requires faith plus works, but that works are the consequent outgrowth and completion of genuine faith. As Jesus pointed out on several occasions, the purpose of a plant is to grow and to bear fruit—fruit representing its natural produce, whether figs, olives, nuts, flowers, or whatever.

But James doesn't say that Abraham's works were the fruit of his faith. He says they perfected (made complete) his faith.

Is a fig tree still a fig tree if it doesn't have figs on it? Of course. In fact, Jesus once cursed a figless fig tree.

"Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself."
"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead."

Is a fig tree dead if it doesn't have fruit? No.

So the works don't come as the "produce" on a "faith-tree" so to speak. They're what makes the faith complete or perfect. They aren't the fruit, but as James says, they're what makes the faith alive and fruitful. Without that, he says, faith is barren and dead. "The demons believe," he says. Trying to separate faith from works is like separating the spirit from the body. What you end up with is a corpse.

This is a common misunderstanding of faith and works, and has tragic consequences. Some even teach that baptism is a work and thus unnecessary for salvation. These false teachers don't believe Peter when he says that baptism saves the sinner (I Peter 3:21), and anyone who listens to them over an apostle of Jesus Christ will share their fate at the judgment.

[CyberAnt]

JESUS changed all the rules.

However, prior to Jesus death, “righteousness was accounted unto them because of their FAITH”.

GOD has given to “every man a measure of faith”. Why did GOD do that ..?? So GOD could use that measure of faith to allow them to enter into Paradise (lower than Heaven) at death; if they had exercised their “faith” prior to death.

This was done because there was no other way of Salvation prior to Jesus death.

I always wondered if Joseph (Mary’s husband) was surprised when Jesus stepped into Paradise and released them all to go on into Heaven with HIM. Of course, Mary was already in Heaven, because she was born again after Jesus death.

[dila813]

Abraham was before Jesus, The author looses me right off the bat because of this.

Doesn’t matter whether you agree with the point he is trying to make, he is making the point badly.

[Campion]

He was so adamantly opposed to the Roman Catholic dogma of salvation through works,

No such animal.

[GeronL]

by Christ alone?

[stonehouse01]

Both are required. Faith without works is dead. Even the demons believed and they aren’t saved.

James 2:24; 26 vs. Galatians 2:16 and Romans 3:28

Both must apply because all scripture is to be used.

The works prescribed by the law referred to by St. Paul in Galatians 2:16 and Romans 3:28 are the Jewish/Mosaic laws of circumcision, dietary restriction, etc., not the ten commandments that are required(works/doers, Romans 2:13) for salvation. The Galatians and Romans Paul was speaking to were perfectly aware of this.

P.S. Martin Luther added “alone” to Roman 3:28 - it is not in the original manuscripts.

[BlackAdderess]

Thank you for this, there is a good deal of food for thought here :)

One thing that I have wondered about for a long time was the near sacrifice of Abraham’s son, and I wonder if the proximity of Baal worshippers had anything to do with it.

[BlackAdderess]

I think there is a tension in the Church between obedience to God and playing Simon Says with a bunch of similarly flawed human beings. The former is desirable, the latter ends in tears.

[imardmd1]

later