Real Christians and America

January 19, 2015 | Talisker

[Talisker]

Christians denominations are religiously balkanized, and this prevents the establishment of a unified, stable, legally-binding American definition of “religion” that could be used to stop the terrorism of Islam from being protected by the 1st Amendment. Lacking this not only enables terrorism, it also enables liberals to protect Muslims by completely avoiding the murderous realities of Islam - literally in the name of American freedom. This is obscene and it MUST stop, or America is doomed. The definition of religion under the 1st Amendment CANNOT be allowed to include any organization or religious teaching that advocates killing, harming or enslaving non-believers, or replacing American law with anything else. Period.

But if there is a correction Christians must first make to better follow the teachings of Christ, then that’s where this change needs to start. Because once that is done, the politics that naturally flow from that correction will be supported by the Grace of God - which is the true protection of America - and which will never fail us if we do our part by, at the very least, stop damning each other to hell. So I propose that the test of whether we are following Jesus’ actual teachings is whether an enemy can take advantage of our mutual animosity in His name, in order to pervert our own God-given rights into being used against us. Because (in my humble opinion) Jesus did NOT intend His own teachings to result in the destruction of America. And so if that’s what is happening - and it obviously is - we’re getting something seriously wrong and we need to correct it immediately.

[ansel12]

Why do self-proclaimed “Christians” say America is a “Christian” nation, when they only define “Christian” as their own specific denomination?

I've never seen or heard of such a thing, that is just silly nonsense to claim such a silly thing.

[abclily]

When my offspring say they are going to a new church, my question is, “Is there a cross on that church?” That’s all I want to know.

[OneWingedShark]

Their argument for this, however, is actually a LIBERAL argument. Because liberals believe that people who believe that Jesus Christ is their savior are Christians - period. And so they lump ALL forms of this belief together as one. Then actual Christians reference this LIBERAL description of themselves to call America a “Christian” nation.

Hmm...

(1 Jn 4:1-3a)
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.

(1 Jn 5:1-4)
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the parent loves the child. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For the love of God is this, that we obey his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome, for whatever is born of God conquers the world. And this is the victory that conquers the world, our faith.

It seems that John affirms the underlined.

[ansel12]

If each Christian denomination thought that it was the only one that was Christian, then how could America have ever started calling itself a Christian nation, since from the beginning there were many denominations, and even official denominations for some colonies.

[Crim]

Wall of text.

[Secret Agent Man]

agreed. nobody says this. nobody argues this. the guy who says this is lying in order to write the article he wants to write and rip up his own straw argument no real person here ever makes.

[ansel12]

Yep, a silly vanity written to create an argument for him.

[ansel12]

Are you a Mormon?

Is that why you are attacking Christianity and America?

I know that you promote the Mormon religion as being a Christian denomination, when in reality it is an entirely new religion, a polytheistic religion, and is not considered Christian by any Christian denomination, not the Catholics, or the Baptists, or Methodists, or the Orthodox, or anyone.

[Alex Murphy]

....BOTH Catholics AND Protestants ALSO believe that the other is going to hell! And for what? For not believing in FURTHER details about Jesus EXACTLY as they do. Because what I described - ALL OF IT - is NOT enough to ANY of them.. it gets worse, because Protestantism is broken into innumerable sects which also believe that about EACH OTHER - not just about Catholics...Catholics ONLY mean Catholics are Christians, Baptists ONLY mean Baptists are Christians, Lutherans ONLY mean Lutherans are Christians, Anglicans ONLY mean Anglicans are Christians, Calvinists ONLY mean Calvinists are Christians, Presbyterians ONLY mean Presbyterians are Christians, Methodists ONLY mean Methodists are Christians, Pentecostals ONLY mean Pentecostals are Christians, Mormons ONLY mean Mormons are Christians, etc., etc., etc.

You've been drinking too much kool-aid.

[who_would_fardels_bear]

I agree wholeheartedly with your essay. The concept of "Christian Nation" in most Americans' minds is contradictory with their religious beliefs.

I don't believe there is precedence for deciding that a particular belief system doesn't count as a religion under the First Amendment. There is, however, precedence for denying members of particular sects from engaging in certain behaviors even if they claim those behaviors are part of their religious rites, etc.

I seem to recall that certain "religions" claimed that taking psychotropic drugs was one of their religious rites, but they were denied this practice.

I believe that it will be difficult to claim that Islam is not a religion. The best we can hope for is that certain Islamic practices such as Sharia courts, jihad, etc. will be denied.

Unfortunately, that knife has two edges. It is the same knife that will allow Christians to continue to call themselves such, but deny them the ability to oppose gay marriage and other liberal programs.

[Gamecock]

**So there’s NO true common ground among so-called “Christians” - NONE. Because it’s only lip service when you believe the other person is actually going to writhe and scream in unbearable torment for the rest of eternity because they don’t agree with you. That’s called a “litmus test.”**

You are a very confused individual.

[Pollster1]

The position I have heard most often is just the opposite, that Christians are Christians. My Sunday School class is a mix of former Catholics, former Baptists, former Presbyterians, and other crossovers, and no one is particularly concerned about those details as meaning they were not real Christians. In public, my experience has been the same. The bottom line: I do not see the problem you think you see.

[CatherineofAragon]

All of this-—this lengthy, emotional vanity-—because you’re mad that folks were busting you on your MLK worship?

Dude.

[johniegrad]

The bottom line: I do not see the problem you think you see.

I think that his view of the problem is overly influenced by reading FR religion threads. It's why I seldom look at them anymore.

But Talisker, the rest of the world is not like that, at least not the rest of the world I know.

[Kartographer]

"But BOTH Catholics AND Protestants ALSO believe that the other is going to hell!

I have seen this so often on FR I can hardly believe it sometimes! Whenever I see it I post this, but it doesn't seem to sink in:

Porthos: You know, it strikes me that we would be better employed wringing Milady's pretty neck than shooting these poor devils of Protestants. I mean, what are we killing them for? Because they sing psalms in French and we sing them in Latin?

Aramis: Porthos, have you no education? What do you think religious wars are all about?

[CatherineofAragon]

"Here’s a perfect example - a Catholic FReeper was recently denouncing Martin Luther King as a non-Christian because of all of his various failings in deeds and belief. In addition to sleeping around on his wife, and hanging around with communists, she pointed out several supposed beliefs MLK had about Christ that are non-traditional and even contrary to common generally-accepted teachings.

To her accusations, I laughed out loud! Why? Because SHE’S CATHOLIC. Which means that even if MLK was a perfect Baptist, never cheated on his wife, and was sterling in every possible way, politically, morally and religiously - she would STILL believe that he was going to hell!"

BTW, Talisker, I might be wrong, but I think you're speaking of me, here. It would have been okay for you to name me.

It is true that MLK denied the Virgin birth, the Second Coming, and the existence of hell. He also believed that Jesus "attained" divinity through "moral struggle."

It's strange you would laugh at that and blow it off. You see, to BE a Christian, one has to believe in the tenets of the religion. And the tenets espoused by MLK were contrary to Christianity---his beliefs directly denied basic Christian doctrine.

Also, I'm not Catholic. And I don't believe Catholics are going to burn in hell.

So much for all of your assumptions.

[metmom]

And therefore the use of that word is only really honest when used by NON-Christians, because THEY all mean the same thing. But to the contrary, Catholics ONLY mean Catholics are Christians, Baptists ONLY mean Baptists are Christians, Lutherans ONLY mean Lutherans are Christians, Anglicans ONLY mean Anglicans are Christians, Calvinists ONLY mean Calvinists are Christians, Presbyterians ONLY mean Presbyterians are Christians, Methodists ONLY mean Methodists are Christians, Pentecostals ONLY mean Pentecostals are Christians, Mormons ONLY mean Mormons are Christians, etc., etc., etc.

Oh, nonsense......

People are not only being really honest when they behave or say the way you think they ought to and if they tell you different, they are lying.

I've stated before and will again, that there are Christians and non-Christians in every denomination. The only thing that varies from church to church is the percentages.

I don't know the denominational affiliation of most of the other born again believers on this board, nor do I care.

If they adhere to Scripture over tradition, then there's common ground, contrary to your belief otherwise.

All I see happening here is pushing a one world religion.

No thanks.

[SkyPilot]

I don't know the denominational affiliation of most of the other born again believers on this board, nor do I care. If they adhere to Scripture over tradition, then there's common ground, contrary to your belief otherwise. All I see happening here is pushing a one world religion

Exactly metmom.

And to the argument that "everyone" believes Jesus is the source of salvation, ask a Catholic or a Mormon what constitutes salvation. Then ask a born again Christian. Do you think they will give one answer, or three different ones?

Pope Francis (the "vicar of Christ on earth") says even atheists can go to heaven.

Pope Francis: All go to Heaven, even atheists

Here is something even more outrageous.

The Bible tells us in 1 John 1:9, Hebrews 11:6, 1 Timothy 6:12-16, and Revelation 3:20 and other places to seek our Jesus personally and in our hearts. To have Him save us, to confess our sins, to repent, and then to seek a relationship with Christ.

But pope Francis says seeking a personal, direct, and immediate relationship with Christ is "dangerous."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSQfr8ikPk4

Talisker, please don't post here stating that everyone believes the same thing. They don't.

[Some Fat Guy in L.A.]

Because liberals believe that people who believe that Jesus Christ is their savior are Christians

"Believing" doesn't cut it - even the demons believe (James 2:19).