Posted on 11/29/2014 4:30:23 PM PST by BlatherNaut
“You present three samples, as if they are anything but anecdotal, just not wowed by the sampling, and now I’m wrong because I said it was huge.”
You were wrong because you said they were ELCA. You’re wrong quite often.
“The proof is the plain words of Scripture.”
So you’re now claiming there is are verses that show, “you KNOW it was different than the way His Church was doing it?” Fine, post those verses.
“Like I said you wouldn’t like it, likely because I had no Catholic to interpret it.”
I didn’t say I did or did not like it. I said you didn’t answer the question - and you didn’t. Now you’re claiming that there are verses that show “it was different than the way His Church was doing it”. Will you post them or will your response be what it has been thus far?
“I still don’t nor do I need one.”
So you don’t have the verses, right?
“Again, Catholic pov, not in accordance with God’s Word.”
Actually no, Christ only established one Church and your sect isn’t it.
“It has been centuries since Christians cowered in their homes awaiting Catholic persecution and caring what they had to say about God and salvation, not so today, for good reason.”
Making up myths isn’t helping your case. Catholics suffered centuries of Protestant persecution in Ireland, England, Wales, Scotland, Scandinavia (where it was illegal to be Catholic until the middle of the 19th century). The simple fact is that many people have persecuted others and many have been persecuted. Protestants persecuted too.
“Catholics sold that concern for the money to raise St Peter’s in Rome.”
Catholics may have, but the Church never did. Many people sin terribly - including Protestants.
“Now the Catholic leadership continues to disappoint to the point of cavorting with Islam.”
Because we know no Protestant has ever “cavorted” with Islam - oh, wait. They have.
And you’re still in just a man-made sect.
“Again, your knowledge of church history and proclamations is lacking.”
No, actually my knowledge of Church History is very good. And your view of my “proclamations” is unimportant to say the least.
“This claim has been refuted so many times on FR that it is a stereotype of a papal syncophant. Doesn’t wash now either.”
Sure, so that’s why you so readily post evidence of that “refutation” right? Oh, that’s right, there won’t be any such evidence coming.
“It is the HS job, you haven’t been moved to ask for that help to do God’s will.”
I asked many years ago and the Holy Spirit aided me - that’s why I am not a Protestant.
“So He hasn’t helped you. Very consistent.”
He did help me. That’s why I am not a Protestant. Very consistent.
“Again please. As a Johnny come lately knower of all Lutheranism CLC may be a big deal to you, some of us have lived through the discussion. At any rate, if you have a desire to post the gouge on the CLC please do so, not my job to answer to you.”
So you can’t tell us what it is?
Was Catharism evil or not?
No, Catharism was not evil. And despite your torrent of slander, I have indeed researched the subject.
It doesn’t matter what you “reject”. Your opinion is meaningless.
LOL, you really cannot take disagreement!
In any event, once more I ask you the same, very simple question: Was the extermination of the Cathars, every man, woman and child, hunted down and hacked, hanged and burned to death across over twenty years, evil, or not?
Yes, or no?
“No, Catharism was not evil.”
False. Catharism was evil. It was evil in its origins: heresy and schism. It was evil in its teachings: denial of Christ (denied His divinity, denied He took on real flesh for physical matter is evil in their view), denial of scripture (they denied created matter was good even though created by God), denied nature (believed fruitfulness was sinfulness because it captured a soul in flesh and matter was evil).
“And despite your torrent of slander, I have indeed researched the subject.”
Okay, name the books you’ve read. Can you? Also, to suggest you probably have not read a single book on the subject is not slander. I think you should look up what the word “slander” means.
“LOL, you really cannot take disagreement!”
Sure I can. I’m just pointing out what something is or is not worth. It’s not about not being able to handle disagreement. It’s about seeing the worth of something, or lack thereof, for what it is.
“In any event, once more I ask you the same, very simple question: Was the extermination of the Cathars, every man, woman and child, hunted down and hacked, hanged and burned to death across over twenty years, evil, or not?”
If such a thing took place, yes, but a war between two armed sides is not an extermination. No such 20 years of extermination of “every man, woman and child, hunted down and hacked, hanged and burned to death” took place. 1) We know thousands of Cathars lived well into the 14th century - thus automatically disproving the premise of your question. 2) We know that thousands of Cathars were reconciled to the faith of Christ and lived out their lives as Catholics and some even joined religious orders - and that was after the Albigensian Crusade so again that proves what you claim never happened. Remember Rainier Sacconi? He wrote around 1250. The Albigensian Crusade is commonly considered to have ended in 1229. Yet Sacconi said in 1250 that there were about 4000 perfecti that were known to be alive and well in France and Italy. The perfecti were really the clergy of the Cathars so that would mean that there were many thousands more Cathars still alive and well. Again, your question is based on a false premise.
“Yes, or no?”
It would be, but nothing like what you asked about - “extermination of the Cathars, every man, woman and child, hunted down and hacked, hanged and burned to death across over twenty years” - actually happened. What did happen was a civil war against a pernicious heretical sect. Many people - some of whom were perfectly innocent - died. Some died in fighting. Some were executed as rebels (from 1216 to 1229 the fighting was almost entirely the putting down of rebellions). Some were massacred (from ancient times until the 17th century it was not unusual for people in cities that resisted an advancing army to be massacred when the city was taken). Think about how the Protestant Cromwell talked about his massacre of the Irish Catholics in Drogheda in the 17th century:
“It hath pleased God to bless our endeavours at Drogheda. After battery we stormed it. The enemy were about 3,000 strong in the town. They made a stout resistance. I believe we put to the sword the whole number of defendants. I do not think thirty of the whole number escaped with their lives. Those that did are in safe custody for the Barbadoes. This hath been a marvellous great mercy.”
And in another letter he says that this “great thing” was done “by the Spirit of God.”
Now, if you want to bring up a specific example of excess - such as the massacre at Béziers (albeit exaggerated) - it should never have happened no matter how in keeping such a massacre was with ancient code of war dating back to pre-Christian times. To massacre those who did not take part in combat is wrong. To massacre those already defeated is wrong (although trying them and punishing them would not be). To massacre women and children is wrong. Such acts are objectively evil. Those men who did them did evil things. What they did they are responsible for and no other person and no other institution (such as the Church) is. And having said all that, in the long run Europe was still better off without the Cathars.
Wah!! Lol!
“Wah!! Lol!”
Thanks again, for proving my point.
Got to have a point, not just asserting you have one.
“Got to have a point, not just asserting you have one.”
I did and I do. And you keep helping me with it whether you intend to or not.
Whatever you say. I don't want to lose any posts by doubting you again.
“Whatever you say. I don’t want to lose any posts by doubting you again.”
Every time you post you lose anyway.
Time for you to go to the mods again.
“Time for you to go to the mods again.”
There’s no reason to do so.
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