Posted on 11/19/2014 12:20:09 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o
The high five, which left some Catholics I know muttering, he explained in the Huffington Post a few days afterward. At a three-hour meeting at the Vatican, Francis listened to several Evangelical leaders talk about their faith and their passion for evangelism. He then responded with “a dynamic evangelical message.” He “wanted everyone to have a personal life-changing encounter with Christ and enter into a personal relationship with Jesus and become bold witnesses for the Gospel. Religion is not the way; Jesus is.”
Robison, sitting next to the pope, was pleased. “So fervent was his message that as he concluded I said, ‘As an evangelist, I want you to know what you just said deserves a high five!’” The translator apparently had to explain this idiom to the pope and when he understood what his Evangelical friend wanted, Francis raised his hand. In the picture, both men are smiling, though one of them looks as if he hadn’t done this before.
As I say, some Catholic friends muttered and grumbled at what they apparently thought was an unpapal act. It was, I think obviously, an act of kindness and friendship, with Francis adapting himself to someone else’s way of doing things. If Jesus could eat with prostitutes and tax collectors, popes can exchange high fives with American Evangelicals.
James Robison comes from a world very different from mine, and even more different from Francis’. Part of the difference is cultural, but the more important difference is religious. The Catholic and the Southern Baptist understand the Church differently, the Bible differently, the way God forms and transforms us differently. Our churches have a crucifix and a Tabernacle, theirs may have a cross (but probably don’t) and definitely don’t have a Tabernacle. It would be wrong to understate the differences in the spirit of Christian friendship. The Catholic forced to worship in a Baptist church would feel the room empty, the Baptist forced to worship in a Catholic church would feel it filled with idols. Each might, out of charity, treat the other’s church as if it were a version of his own, but that would be only a polite fiction.
And yet. Eating together in Rome, the Catholic pope and the Evangelical pastors listening to each other listened to men who spoke of souls and of Jesus Christ in the same way, who talked in similar ways about someone they knew and served, who shared the desire that others come to know and serve him too.
Sitting round a table with Robison and his peers and two other Catholics, I felt the same thing. They speak a different language than I do as a Catholic. Our Lady and the saints were not presences they felt and friends they would claim. They do not enjoy the sacraments. They do not look to the Magisterium for help in knowing what Christians believe and how they ought to live. They do not, the Catholic would say, have all the gifts of God that bring us happiness.
And yet. Here are men who love Jesus. If Jesus walked into the room, they’d hit their knees as fast, if not faster, than the Catholics with them. If he told them, “You go join their Church,” they’d do it. Perhaps not right away, and not without grumbling, and only after double- and triple-checking, but they would do it.
“The enemy has kept many Christians from loving one another as Christ loves us and have failed to recognize the importance of supernatural unity even with all of the unique diversity,” Robison wrote in the Huffington Post article. “We know it is God's will for those who have been born from above to become bold witnesses for His glory and Kingdom purpose and to go into all the world and make disciples of Christ. We have been commanded to love God with all of our heart and our neighbors as ourselves.”
We can explain the growing friendship of Evangelicals and Catholics as the result of culture: two once-dominant and now increasingly marginalized groups find each other to be allies in their marginalization, while sharing a belief in the moral law much of their society rejects. They find themselves friends, like the lonely kids on the playground who won’t have any friends if they don’t band together or the nerds in the computer club everyone else teases.
That’s certainly a reason. But what Robison calls supernatural unity seems to be a reason as well. In this meeting and others I’ve attended, people sharply divided by the Reformation felt themselves brothers not only because they found themselves huddled together in the cultural doghouse, but because they shared a friendship with the Lord. I suspect Francis saw this in his meeting, that he knew that he and the Evangelicals met, as Robison writes, “in the presence of the Lord.”
Meeting in the presence of the Lord does not erase the real differences. Whether those hosts in the Tabernacle are really Jesus or only pieces of bread remains a serious and divisive question, and a difference that epitomizes all the others. That two men share a close friendship with Jesus does not mean they will agree. One friend may be quite wrong about what Jesus wants. He may not be listening very well.
But Evangelicals and Cathoilcs see more and more that they are friends, not just allies but friends, and that counts for a lot in this world. I would never in a million years high five the pope. But I’m pleased that James Robison felt he could, and in fact that he felt he must.
David Mills, former executive editor of First Things, is a writer and author of Discovering Mary. His webblog can be found at www.patheos.com/blogs/davidmills.
I can think of a number of Catholics who would disagree with Sheen about Graham's character.
And on. And off. And on. And off.
And although more women have RA than men, it hits men, too.
So I wouldn't make the cheeriest assumptions about a 77-year-old man's joints, ligaments and tendons. It would be just, would it not? -- as well as charitable, to consider that he might miss a genuflection from joint pain rather than from denying the doctrine of Transubstantiation?
I never said Francis denied Transubstantiation, did I? Why do you try to put words in my mouth?
"Conclusion: Either he doesn’t believe in the Catholic doctrine of trans-substantiation or he would not fall on his knees as the author erroneously asserts." I don't know how I could have clicked on that and ended up addressing you. My befuzzled brain. Again, sorry.
Apology accepted. That post did surprise me.
“Religion is not the way; Jesus is.”
The Pope said this? If so, he ought to resign.
He has also said there is no need for other christians to convert to Catholicism.
“Bishop Fulton Sheen said that when Billy Graham died, the Catholic Church should declare him a saint. This was praise from one great evangelist to another”
Billy Graham had great things to say about Fulton Sheen and many of the Popes. He was especially fond of JP2, calling him the greatest moral voice of the 20th Century.
I am not familiar with the quote you cited where Sheen said the Catholic Church should canonize Billy Graham. You have a source?
Can’t wait for the two miracles.
It was 50 years ago or so. My memory is good, but not that good.
I’m not sure how any Catholic could “like” the fact that he said these things. It is not Catholic to cast aside the Catholic Faith as necessary. And no Catholic should defend it.
Aah....an incident of accidit infallibilita kicking in, leading and guiding the one *some* identify as being pope.
High 5, dude.
Perhaps some may be unaware that to reject a single article of the Credo ("We believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic church") is to apostatize.
"One Lord, one faith, one baptism". Ephesians 4:5
Someone's going to have to start praying to Billy Graham first. There was a thread last month(?) wherein the author speculated on whether questionable-Catholic so-and-so was in Heaven. The author concluded with him stating that he would start praying to this deceased individual, to see if any miracles might happen. Maybe you could do likewise in Graham's case.
Depends on what he meant by "religion." Some people take this as a synonym for empty external observance, and if so, he's saying no more or less than Jesus did. Jesus was quite the critic of religion. So were all the Prophets of Israel.
In any case, I would not judge anybody by a 7-word aphorism. Augustine said "Love, and then do what you will"--- another 7-word aphorism which could bear either a God-inspired meaning, or a disastrous counter-meaning.
Imagine if you will the head of the Catholic Church that does not believe in the teachings of the Catholic Church. A pope more popular with non-Catholics than Catholics.
There’s a signpost up ahead—next stop, the Bergoglio Zone.
Francis’ interview with “Il Messaggero”. The interview was published on June 29, 2014:
Question for Francis: “Why have you, from the very beginning, chosen to stress your role as the Bishop of Rome?”
Francis: “Francis’ first service is this: to be the Bishop of Rome.”
Question for Francis: “Where is Bergoglio’s Church headed?”
Francis: “Thank God, I have no Church; I follow Christ.”
Francis’ June 16, 2014 address to “His Grace” Justin Welby, the “Archbishop” of Canterbury:
“‘Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!’ (Ps 133:1) Once again we meet, Your Grace, as co-workers in the Lord’s vineyard and fellow pilgrims on the path to his Kingdom. I welcome you and the distinguished members of your delegation… We must walk together. Your Grace, I thank you once more for your visit. I ask the Lord to shower his blessings on your ministry and to sustain you and your loved ones in joy and peace. Amen.”
Francis’ June 16, 2014 address to “the diocese of Rome”:
“… the Church must do something, must change, must convert in order to become mother. She must be fruitful!… This is not a question of seeking to proselytize, no, no! To go ring the bell: ‘Would you like to come to this association called the Catholic Church?…’… The Church does not grow through proselytism…”
The Church doesn’t make saints. It confirms through proof of two miracles established by an international panel of experts and neutral scientists that a person who was praying to a particular individual was cured completely, of what the doctors called an incurable disease, and the cure must be complete and permanent. This is earthly confirmation that the person is in Heaven. It takes one miracle to achieve the status of “Blessed.” So far even Bishop Fulton J. Sheen has not attained the “Blessed” status. So good luck on Billy Graham.
Neither would I nor Blathernaut, but we all know we're not just talking about one teensty little 7 word phrase in the last two years.
Good to hear that. What I was responding to was this from BlatherNaut:
“Religion is not the way; Jesus is.”---
"The Pope said this? If so, he ought to resign."
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