Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Bigg Red
We Catholics believe that Purgatory exists. This is not merely my “interpretation”.

It can't be an *interpretation* from Scripture because Scripture does not teach it.

The Catholic church is teaching as truth, something with no basis, with no Scriptural support. You certainly are free to believe what you want. Nobody said you weren't.

However, there is no such thing as purgatory as God did not tell us that it exists and that sin must be purged there.

He has revealed to us in Scripture everything that is needed for life and godliness and has given us great and precious promises and that is for forgiveness and life, not bondage and suffering and torment to try to pay for our sins.

Suffering doesn't cleanse us from anything anyway because without the shedding of blood, there is NO forgiveness of sins. Your sins cannot be cleansed by any other means, no matter how long a time you spend in torment in purgatory.

49 posted on 11/17/2014 5:16:12 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies ]


To: metmom

paul writes of the cleansing, as if by fire, and you will be tested, and, the perishable will be burnt. Jesus also tells us as if youwere in prison, and your sentence needs to be paid, in order for you to leave.

philippians ststes very clearly that “ work out you salvation in fear and trembling”, also.”run the race until the very end”. both clearly state that there is no one time acceptance of Jesus as an assurance of salvation.

one cannot diein an absolute state of grace, one would have some small sins at least ( a just man sins sevens times daily ), and you have to be in perfect grace to see God.


52 posted on 11/17/2014 9:38:50 AM PST by haole (John 10 30)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies ]

To: metmom; Bigg Red
I think many Catholics would be surprised to learn that there really is no consensus within their religion about Purgatory. Things such as where it is, what it is, what really happens there, how long a person remains there, how someone leaves and various other details remain unknown. It's one thing to say you believe in Purgatory because your church says it exists but another entirely to realize much about it has remained up in the air with no detailed official pronouncements to back it up. The most that is said is from the Catechism and, other than a general statement, it leaves it up to the individual to guess. This is all that is said about Purgatory:

    III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory

    1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

    1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607 (954, 1472)

      As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608

    1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture:

    “Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.”609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead: (958, 1371, 1479)

      Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

    http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm#

There are further teachings about "indulgences", which is the doctrine that the "Treasury of Merit" - all the good works of "Saints" are stored up and ready to be credited to the account of those in Purgatory to hasten their time there (this was one of the main abuses of the Catholic church that prompted Luthers 95 Theses):

    1477 “This treasury includes as well the prayers and good works of the Blessed Virgin Mary. They are truly immense, unfathomable, and even pristine in their value before God. In the treasury, too, are the prayers and good works of all the saints, all those who have followed in the footsteps of Christ the Lord and by his grace have made their lives holy and carried out the mission the Father entrusted to them. In this way they attained their own salvation and at the same time cooperated in saving their brothers in the unity of the Mystical Body.”89 (969)(emphasis added)

    Obtaining indulgence from God through the Church

    1478 An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins. Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity.90 (981)

    1479 Since the faithful departed now being purified are also members of the same communion of saints, one way we can help them is to obtain indulgences for them, so that the temporal punishments due for their sins may be remitted. (1032)


56 posted on 11/17/2014 11:22:04 AM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies ]

To: metmom

I repeat, you are free to believe what your particular denomination proclaims.

And I will continue to hold to my Catholic beliefs.


61 posted on 11/17/2014 1:34:40 PM PST by Bigg Red (Congress, do your duty and repo his pen and his phone.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies ]

To: metmom; boatbums; BiggRedd; NYer
"It can't be an *interpretation* from Scripture because Scripture does not teach it. The Catholic church is teaching as truth, something with no basis, with no Scriptural support."

=============================================================

Here are some links I've collected which help to give a broad biblical basis for "purgatory", for anyone interested in checking them out.    (Freeper "boatbums" also made a point about "purgatory" in her post #56 saying, "I think many Catholics would be surprised to learn that there really is no consensus within their religion about Purgatory" (since it is not exhaustively described or documented) -- as, of course, "heaven" and "hell" also are not exhaustively described or documented -- but three of these links which I'm providing here (which contain the name "Jerry Walls", a Protestant scholar) illustrate that there is also not a real unanimous consensus among Protestants about "purgatory" either.)

Some Helpful Links About "Purgatory"




(Song -- "Whiter Than Snow")    
"Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow."   (Psalm 51:7)



"If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.    If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.    Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?"   (1 Corinthians 3:14-16)



70 posted on 11/17/2014 6:44:51 PM PST by Heart-Rest ("Our hearts are restless, Lord, until they rest in Thee." - St. Augustine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson