Posted on 08/05/2014 11:54:37 AM PDT by NYer
Your quote translated:
But but but but, The Protestants do it!
Cardinal Francis Xavier Nguyen Van Thuan lived in a very comfortable residence as Bishop of Nha Trang, Vietnam ... and then he lived in a tiny, filthy prison cell for over a decade. Plenty of other bishops have followed the same trajectory, and many didn’t survive to be released.
St. Paul said he had learned the secret of contentment in all circumstances: Christ.
(I’m just reflecting here, not aiming anything at you in particular ;-).
“costumes”? These are priestly rituals dating back to the time of Christ and carried on by His disciples.
The liturgical vestments worn at Mass have evolved over time. Nevertheless, since the earliest days of the Church, liturgical vestments have been worn by priests for the celebration of the Mass. Even though priests of the Old Testament wore vestments in their liturgical rites, the “Christian” vestments are not really adaptations of them; rather, the vestments of the Christians developed from the dress of the Graeco-Roman world, including the religious culture.
Nevertheless, the Old Testament idea of wearing a special kind of clothing in the performance of liturgical rites did influence the Church. St. Jerome asserted, “The Divine religion has one dress in the service of sacred things, another in ordinary intercourse and life.”
After the legalization of Christianity in A.D. 313, the Church continued to refine “who wore what when and how” until about the year 800 when liturgical norms for vesting were basically standardized and would remain so until the renewal following the Second Vatican Council.
Yes, they were great. I think they were mostly Irish from Ireland. My husband was stationed some place (I never knew exactly where, since he was in Army Intelligence) where he knew a lot of them.
My mother befriended a little French priest from that rectory (she typed for them). He came to our home in his beautiful white cassock and we fed him American food. When my mother and he spoke about finding a proper spouse, he told her: “Every mop finds its handle.” Father LeBlanc, that was his name. Dear Father LeBlanc. 1965.
“The Protestants” have always had luxurious residences. In my town, the biggest and best houses are the former Presbyterian manse and several other former Protestant ministers’ residences. Since the mainstream Protestant churches are down to a handful of elderly people here, many of these have had to be sold off.
Meanwhile, the Catholic church has over a hundred people at daily mass, while the clergy lives in rooms (or, the case of the bishop, a couple of rooms with a reception room) in a 1960’s building where the offices are also housed.
LOL! “Every pot has its lid,” we used to say!
Yes, perhaps some priest lived comfortably in Mosul (thank God) but now he is on the run - into poverty and exile. God bless all Christians in these hellholes.
A variation on a theme!
“Costumes” is an interesting choice of word, and to someone without much exposure to the everyday lives of Catholic priests and deacons, I can see why it is used.
The “vestments” are only worn during the hour or so that Mass is celebrated, and for the most part, are not owned by the bishop or priest. Outside of mass, a bishop looks like other bishops, and a priest looks like any other priest (often all black with a Roman or Oxford collar). Not very showy, eh?
Each part of the “costume” is actually associated with a prayer and a reminder. See info:
http://whycatholicsdothat.com/why-do-catholic-priest-wear-vestments/
Note that even Capuchin Franciscans who wear a plain brown habit and take a vow of poverty will wear the same vestments that other priests do when celebrating Mass. They are not worn for their own aggrandizement.
for later reading and venting my spleen
That thought gave me a chill.
Yes, and it’s true, too. These old priests were very practical and they really loved their parishioners.
It enrages me that Christians have been exiled out of this country - after all the blood and treasure spent. And our rotten president says nothing about them. As they say, there’s a special place consigned to him...
They were marvelous! BTW, I googled the White Fathers and it turns out they were French originally - founded in 1868, approximately. They were originally in Northern Africa and their cassocks imitate the white robes of Arabs.
When I knew them, they were in the Congo. Just like Audrey Hepburn in “The Nun’s Story.”
“If you were in full-time ministry, would you have to live as a primitive mendicant?”
No. Why do you have to go to an extreme to try to justify this behavior by bishops?
Living above the level of those you purport to serve is the issue.
“Nevertheless, since the earliest days of the Church, liturgical vestments have been worn by priests for the celebration of the Mass.”
Don’t kid yourself. There are no first century references in Scripture or out to costumes for Christian elders or deacons or Apostles.
“Each part of the “costume” is actually associated with a prayer and a reminder.”
All made up out of whole cloth and pagan rituals.
Scripture did not record either all what was said, done, or practiced. Catholics believe also in sacred tradition and revelation. The books in Scripture did not fall from the skies. They were written some 60 years after the death of Christ and these books were authenticated by the early Church fathers.
Thank you. That was an interesting and informative response.
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