SEVEN WAYS CNN GETS IT WRONG ON BISHOPS’ RESIDENCES

Catholic Vote ^ | August 5, 2014 | JOSHUA BOWMAN

[vladimir998]

I called you “bud” not “Bud”. I know why, but I find it more amusing to see you struggle at having no explanation. I shall, therefore, not tell you. Enjoy.

[boatbums]

“Nothing in the New Testament requires abolition of priestly vestments.”

This is another false argument that makes silence a justification for action - and this used to justify doing things as the pagans did and still do.

“Our Lord attacked the Jewish leaders for a number of sins, but he never condemned their priestly garb.”

Actually, Jesus DID:

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others. “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. (Matthew 23:1-12)

[Fantasywriter]

Okay; go ahead and act like a little child about it. I asked a polite, civil question and all you can do is dishonestly dance around like an ill-mannered grade-schooler. Suit yourself.

[Alex Murphy]

Maybe we should do a quick review of the definition of those three terms, which, without question, apply to all those individuals:

• Prominent: Widely known; famous, stands out.
• Protestant: A Western Christian who is not an adherent of the Catholic or Orthodox Church.
• Leader: A person who guides or directs a group.

A most helpful review. I don't know which is sadder - that you would define "Protestant" by what it is not, or that your definition declares Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Creflo Dollar, and Jeremiah Wright to be fellow "Christians".

Related thread:
History Lesson: Positively Protestant

[metmom]

A most helpful review. I don't know which is sadder - that you would define "Protestant" by what it is not, or that your definition declares Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Creflo Dollar, and Jeremiah Wright to be fellow "Christians".

That's pretty ironic considering that Catholics are constantly accusing us of identifying ourselves based on what we oppose, or what we are not.

But broad brushing is so much more fun and Catholics just love their labels, even when they get it wrong.

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Sometimes you can’t pick your friends. You don’t have to like Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, Dollar, and Wright, but there is no point trying to pretend they are not Protestants, and leaders at that to a certain segment of the population.

[Karl Spooner]

FWIW, I don’t trust a single televangelist, I despise prosperity gospel teaching, would never give a nickel to the shysters, and think that they’ve done more damage to the name of Christ than any *benefit* they claim.

And they all preach the Rapture, too. Can't be nothing wrong with that!

[Karl Spooner]

Sometimes you can’t pick your friends. You don’t have to like Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, Dollar, and Wright, but there is no point trying to pretend they are not Protestants, and leaders at that to a certain segment of the population.

Are you feeling okay?

[Gamecock]

You don't believe in guilt by association, do you? Were Peter, James, John, and the other apostles blamed and condemned for the sins of Judas Iscariot, just because they were in the same group of disciples of Jesus that Judas was in?

I see some faulty logic here. I am NOT in the same group as the above mentioned shysters. Calling all none Roman Catholic Christians Protestants is just lazy bookkeeping. As much detail as the home office in Rome puts into categorizing all sorts of minutiae you would think they would be able to make a distinction between Protestant churches and others.

Regarding how many denominations we are up to now, heaven only knows. (That's kind of like asking how many babies have been born this year -- it is a fluid number that constantly keeps going up and up and up...)

You can make the claim that the number is going up and up and up but you can't even provide a baseline? Sorry. Your point now has has no credibility.

By the way, Gamecock, may I ask what denomination you belong to?

Sure!

Also, seriously, how many denominations do you believe there ought to be?

As long as they preach the Gospel the more the merrier. Those that have fallen into apostasy need to go away. Which some of them are actually doing.

You FRoman Catholics make me wonder why the fascination with what we real Prods are up to.

Mark 9:38 Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.” 39“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.

[metmom]

So what gives Catholics the right to label who is a Protestant and who is not?

Do you all want non-Catholics to start making determinations of who’s Catholic and who’s not?

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

"So what gives Catholics the right to label who is a Protestant and who is not?"

Well they sure aren't Catholics. See, thats the problem with starting a movement whose main premise is based on making up your own rules -- every Tom Dick and Harry who cares to skip along can do so. And they can create whatever wacky offshoots they wish without violating the main premise.

"Do you all want non-Catholics to start making determinations of who’s Catholic and who’s not?"

I would like to answer that with a slightly ironic chuckle. Feel free to imagine this chuckle in your mind's ear *now*.

[Heart-Rest]

"So what gives Catholics the right to label who is a Protestant and who is not? Do you all want non-Catholics to start making determinations of who’s Catholic and who’s not?"

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

For the people I posted about, Billy Graham, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton are Baptists, Creflo Dollar is in the World Changers Church International, Joyce Meyer, T. D. Jakes, and Joel Osteen are in Non-Denominational protestant churches, Jeremiah Wright is in the United Church of Christ, and Kenneth Copeland is in the "Word of Faith" denomination.

They all believe in and use "Sola Scriptura", just like you do, even though you all might believe something completely and incompatibly different from each other.

Are you saying they are not protestants?

[Heart-Rest]

Compare:

Gamecock:   (In response to my question,"Also, seriously, how many denominations do you believe there ought to be?", replied) "... the more the merrier".

Jesus:   "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. "
John 17:20-21

You are seeking the very opposite of what Jesus prayed for.    You might want to reassess the wisdom of doing that.

[BlueDragon]

You are seeking the very opposite of what Jesus prayed for. You might want to reassess the wisdom of doing that.

Really now? You are the one who may need to reassess the wisdom of putting it all in Romanist basket.

What of all other fellowships, including the Church of the East who made it all the way to China many centuries before any Jesuit went there?

What are they? Chopped liver?

What of Thomas in India? Thomas was not of the church of Rome, nor sent by any pope of Rome that we know of.

They can still all be one, all attached to the same vine, that vine being Christ, not necessarily any particular church ecclesiastical body being "the true vine" unless one is indeed making their own church out to be God.

Let He who is the true vine and vintner both chose His own grapes, not the sour or jealous grapes be stomping upon the others, flicking at them with near to themselves twig & leaf, for all grapes whom are chosen shall be pressed. Just you wait, and see...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papias_of_Hierapolis#Fragments

Irenaeus indeed quotes the fourth book of Papias for an otherwise-unknown saying of Jesus, recounted by John the Evangelist, which Eusebius doubtless has in mind:[32][33]

The Lord used to teach about those times and say: "The days will come when vines will grow, each having ten thousand shoots, and on each shoot ten thousand branches, and on each branch ten thousand twigs, and on each twig ten thousand clusters, and in each cluster ten thousand grapes, and each grape when crushed will yield twenty-five measures of wine. And when one of the saints takes hold of a cluster, another cluster will cry out, "I am better, take me, bless the Lord through me." Similarly a grain of wheat will produce ten thousand heads, and every head will have ten thousand grains, and every grain ten pounds of fine flour, white and clean. And the other fruits, seeds, and grass will produce in similar proportions, and all the animals feeding on these fruits produced by the soil will in turn become peaceful and harmonious toward one another, and fully subject to humankind.… These things are believable to those who believe." And when Judas the traitor did not believe and asked, "How, then, will such growth be accomplished by the Lord?", the Lord said, "Those who live until those times will see."

Not exactly "the grape as spoken of in later centuries by Omar Khayyam, but they do both come to mind.

Don't be such a Sufi..? lol

[Gamecock]

I would tell you that churches like the PCA and the SBC are more like one than our FRoman Catholic friends imagine.

What binds them is their trust in Jesus as their savior, not organizational beaurocracy.

[metmom]

Amen!

[Alex Murphy]

So what gives Catholics the right to label who is a Protestant and who is not?

You'd think that we would have gotten at least three-fifths of a vote on that subject!

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Oh boohoo. Where do you want your reparation entitlements sent?

[Heart-Rest]

"I would tell you that churches like the PCA and the SBC are more like one than our FRoman Catholic friends imagine. What binds them is their trust in Jesus as their savior, not organizational beaurocracy."

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Well, how does the PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) match up with the PC(USA) (Presbyterian Church - USA)?

As I understand it, the "Presbyterian Church - USA" used to hold the same basic positions and teachings as the "Presbyterian Church in America" against active homosexual behaviors, homosexual marriage, homosexual ordination, etc., right up until the last several years, when the "Presbyterian Church - USA" began to change their beliefs and teachings, and began to accept all those perverted depravities.

While they are both still Presbyterian denominations, it is my understanding that the "Presbyterian Church in America" has not yet accepted active homosexual behaviors, homosexual marriage, or homosexual ordination, as being morally acceptable choices like the "Presbyterian Church - USA" now believes and teaches.

Would you say that the "Presbyterian Church in America" and the "Presbyterian Church - USA" are more like "one" than they might seem at present?

Both of those types of Presbyterians profess trust in Jesus as their Savior, and only God can read their hearts (and if anyone tells you that they can read another person's heart just like God can, that person is a liar), so, does that trust they profess in Jesus as their Savior bind the PCA and PCUSA together like you say it binds the PCA and the SBC together?

[Gamecock]

Nope. The PC(USA) was hijacked by liberals over 100 years ago.

Today they are Presbyterian in name only.