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The Dispensational and Kingdom Implications of the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6:9-13
Spirit and Truth ^ | N/A | Andy Woods

Posted on 05/27/2014 8:39:36 AM PDT by dartuser

The contemporary evangelical world is engulfed in the idea that the church is presently experiencing the messianic kingdom. The idea of the "kingdom" can be bewildering, especially considering how this term is loosely bandied about by today's evangelicals. Many ministries convey the notion that the kingdom is strictly a spiritual and present reality by indicating that they are "expanding the kingdom" through their evangelistic and missionary endeavors. Even Christian political activists sometimes argue that they are "bringing in the kingdom."

... when rightly understood, the "Disciples' Prayer" consists of three requests for the kingdom to come and three additional requests for provisions that are needed while the kingdom remains in abeyance. Thus, in light of a proper understanding of the so called "Lord's Prayer" in Matthew 6:9-13, the whole notion that Christ already established the kingdom in spiritual form at His First Advent becomes unlikely, if not impossible.

(Excerpt) Read more at spiritandtruth.org ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Theology
KEYWORDS: dispensationalism; kingdom; lordsprayer
A cogent discussion of the issues with the 'kingdom now' teaching.
1 posted on 05/27/2014 8:39:36 AM PDT by dartuser
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To: dartuser
Thus, in light of a proper understanding of the so called "Lord's Prayer" in Matthew 6:9-13, the whole notion that Christ already established the kingdom in spiritual form at His First Advent becomes unlikely, if not impossible.

OK, but explain this:

Luk_17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

2 posted on 05/27/2014 9:14:14 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: dartuser

Thanks. Will fully read before commenting. Just wanted ya to know people read your posts:)


3 posted on 05/27/2014 9:35:56 AM PDT by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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To: dartuser; daniel1212; metmom; boatbums
Read it good piece. Woods alludes to Acts 1 but did not use it much in his argument. That made me scratch my head. Acts 1:

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

And something else could have added to his argument as well (even though the Gospel according to Matthew is his focus). Where Jesus clearly delineates His First Advent Mission:

Luke 4:

17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Which was a partial reading of the following from Isaiah 61:

Isaiah 61:

The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

The bold above in Isaiah 61 is what Jesus read. He stopped there not reading "and the day of vengeance of our God." The following verses as you know depict the Kingdom on earth. Jesus did not preach that fulfillment in the hearing of all present in Luke chapter 4.

4 posted on 05/27/2014 10:42:32 AM PDT by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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To: Iscool
OK, but explain this:

Luk_17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Indeed ... this is an exercise ...

Do you have a good Bible search software with multiple versions? If not, use www.biblegateway.com and look up that same passage in all the other English versions and you will notice something. The translators of the various versions cannot really come to a definite conclusion of how the word ἐντὸς should be translated.

There is enough symantic range that there are several possibilities that emerge. If you use BibleWorks or Logos ... you can scan a dozen lexicons and see the various usages ...

Consider the most numerative possibilities ...

The kingdom of God is within you ...
The kingdom of God is among you ...
The kingdom of God is in your midst ...

How do we decide? Is there any background information that can help here? I believe there is ...

One key concept in the OT is the understanding of the relationship between a king and his kingdom. Consider the vision in Daniel 2. While giving him the interpretation of his dream, Daniel says to Nebachednezzar ... 'you oh king are that head of gold ... and after you will come another kingdom' ...

It was revealed to Daniel that the status represented the Gentile kingdoms that would arise after Babylon. He said that the head was representative of king Nebuchadnezzar ... and after him would come another kingdom. Daniel equates the king with the kingdom. You will find the concept of the kingdom all over the OT.

The Jews and disciples of Jesus' day understood what the kingdom was ... there was a king, a rulership, a kingdom.

An important point to remember is that none of these aspects was restored after coming back from the Babylonian exile. They didn't have a king, they didn't have a kingdom, they didn't rule over that kingdom. They returned from Babylon to be perpetually the subjects of Gentile kingdoms (Persia, Greece, and Rome) and the kingdom was not restored. Even today they still don't have a king ... or a kingdom ... it was never restored.

After Jesus rose from the dead, he taught the apostles for 40 days concerning the kingdom (Acts 1:3) ... and later in verse 6 they asked Him if He was going to restore the kingdom to Israel now. The apostles understood what the concept of the kingdom was ... they were not confused about the meaning of the restored kingdom.

So how do we put this together to understand the Luke passage? If the kingdom of God is viewed as the restoration of the earthly kingdom to Israel ... then the translation and understanding of 'kingdom in the heart' doesn't fit with both the background or the span of the rest of scripture; esp. Acts 1; i.e., I think we have to reject 'within you' as an adequate translation.

Does one of the other translations harmonize with all of this information to determine the sense of Luke 17:21? I believe so ... Since there is no distinction between the king and the kingdom in the Middle Eastern mind ... and the disciples understood the nature of the kingdom as earthly ... I view either of the other two translations as probable ... Therefore, Jesus was stating ... "the kingdom is among you; I am the king of that kingdom, I am in your midst, the kingdom is here, with Me." It harmonizes with all the other passages in the gospels (none of which infer a 'kingdom in the heart') which depict Jesus as the king of a coming kingdom.

And that was the point of the article ... we are to pray for that coming kingdom ... on earth as it is in heaven.

Hope this helps ...

If you are feeling industrious ... you could ponder what Matt 19:28 could possibly mean if the kingdom is merely spiritual.

28 And Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Questions to ponder concerning this passage:
What is the regeneration? What is it?
What throne is Jesus talking about that He will sit on in the future? He is currently sitting on His Father's throne now (Rev. 3:21) ... but He mentions HIS throne which he will (future active ... I will give him to sit ...) sit on the future. What throne is that?
The present participle 'judging' depicts continuous action not a one time event; so the thought that the apostles will simply judge Jews at the resurrection is not in view here ... its a continuous judging ... i.e. a ruling.
Matt 25:31 also depicts a future sitting on a throne by Christ ... and it occurs after His glorious appearing.

Lots to study ... its just a start.

5 posted on 05/27/2014 11:02:36 AM PDT by dartuser
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To: dartuser
If you are feeling industrious ... you could ponder what Matt 19:28 could possibly mean if the kingdom is merely spiritual.

I have been pondering it for years...

The Kingdom of Heaven is a physical kingdom where Jesus will sit on the throne of David in Jerusalem and will rule Israel as their Messiah, their King...

The kingdom 'within you' is the Kingdom of God which is the Holy Spirit in you...

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Two Kingdoms; one physical, one Spiritual...Two promises...

6 posted on 05/27/2014 12:56:41 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool
Two Kingdoms; one physical, one Spiritual...Two promises...

The Scripture is clear regarding what we need to understand about the two Kingdoms. Here is a diagram of the differences.

 photo kogkoh250_zps9e6c093c.jpg

A verbal description of this is found at Happy Heralds, Inc,:

"The Kingdom of Heaven and The Kingdom of God"

Have at it --

7 posted on 05/28/2014 7:07:35 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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