Posted on 02/24/2014 2:10:01 PM PST by SeekAndFind
You say you like Jesus, basically, and would enjoy getting to know him, but I wonder of you consider that Jesus is either who he claims to be or he is the worst kind of con man, thief, liar, false prophet and lunatic. There really isn't a middle ground here - if we are being honest. There is no "fence riding" where your eternity is concerned - it may come in a blink of an eye. Please think about that.
Paul.....Saul before that fateful road trip.......became a follower of the Nazarene
after Christ had died and rose again and subsequently ascended for good from his earthly existence
There is a few years span before Paul’s supernatural vision conversion and Christ’s “death”
The Paul versus Peter thing is often a Catholic Protestant beef
Just ask Luther
Strike that last post....I see you don’t mean physical real life time ...like the disciples..
“Paul.....Saul before that fateful road trip.......became a follower of the Nazarene”
Follower yes, for the purpose of persecution of Jesus’ followers. Otherwise his heart would not have needed the words and experience the Risen Jesus gave to him.
After reading this entire thread, a few very important sets of scriptures comes to mind…….
Matthew 12
25 And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 and if Satan casteth out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
28 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
29 Or how can one enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me, and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
If this thread is any indication, Christianity does not have a chance. So much division… I’m even seeing personal attacks… Ouch.
Mark 3:
24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.
26 And if Satan hath rise up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
OR
Luke 11
17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18 And if Satan also is divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out demons by Beelzebub.
19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20 But if I by the finger of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
Could Christianity be more divided than it is right now?
I believe that Maccoby’s work lays out the general Jewish position, which I endorse and support.
Thank you. God Bless....
Fortunately, Christianity doesn't rely on humans to exist or to be effective.
I'm still interested in your definition of 'same level of spirituality', and what lies beyond trusting God.
“Fortunately, Christianity doesn’t rely on humans to exist or to be effective.
I’m still interested in your definition of ‘same level of spirituality’, and what lies beyond trusting God.”
Sorry, I did not reply earlier. Had a family emergency and have been traveling, with very limited internet access.
The statement, “Christianity doesn’t rely on humans to exist or to be effective” is not a logical comment.... Think about it..
“What lies beyond trusting God?” That’s an easy one. Experiencing God. That is the treasure buried in the field Jesus spoke of. Trusting or knowing you can do something is just a thought. Actually doing it experientially is what creates the real experience. If you don’t believe me, try just thinking about food for a few months rather than experiencing it.
“There is a few years span before Paul’s supernatural vision conversion and Christ’s “death””
Per Wiki: The Conversion of Paul the Apostle, was, according to the New Testament, an event that took place in the life of Paul the Apostle which led him to cease persecuting early Christians and to become a follower of Jesus. It is normally dated by researchers to AD 33–36. The phrases Pauline conversion, Damascene conversion and Damascus Christophany, and road to Damascus allude to this event.
Paul’s conversion occurred after Jesus’ crucifixion.
Author and theologian John Stott is of the opinion that Paul’s conversion was gradual, and that the Damascus Road experience was the climax of his conversion. Stott bases this theory on Acts 26:14: “...it is hard for you to kick against the goads”. The inference is that God had pricked Paul’s conscience at the stoning of Stephen—protomartyr of Christianity—and possibly Stephen’s trial. He believes Paul additionally was aware of and troubled by Jesus Christ’s death, and that his subsequent resurrection was attested to by hundreds, fulfilling Old Testament scripture.
Estimating the year of Paul’s conversion relies on working backwards from his trial before Junius Gallio in Achaea Greece (Acts 18:12-17) around 51-52 AD, a date which gained historical credibility early in the 20th century following the discovery of four stone fragments as part of the Delphi Inscriptions, at Delphi across the Gulf from Corinth.
Most historians estimate that Gallio (brother of Seneca the Younger) became proconsul between the spring of 51 AD and the summer of 52 AD, and that his position ended no later than 53 AD. However, the trial of Paul is generally assumed to be in the earlier part of Gallio’s tenure, based on the reference (Acts 18:2) to his meeting in Corinth with Priscilla and Aquila, who had been recently expelled from Rome based on Emperor Claudius’ expulsion of some Jews from Rome, which is dated to 49-50 AD.
According to the New Testament, Paul spent eighteen months in Corinth, approximately seventeen years after his conversion. Galatians 2:1-10 states that Paul went back to Jerusalem fourteen years after his conversion, and various missions (at times with Barnabas) such as those in Acts 11:25-26 and 2 Corinthians 11:23-33 appear in the Book of Acts. The generally accepted scholarly estimate for the date of conversion of Paul is 33-36 AD, placing the death of Jesus before this date range.
I have, that is why I trust His promises.
“Christianity doesn’t rely on humans to exist or to be effective” is not a logical comment
And yet it is true. God runs the church, He provisions His own. Outside of Him there is no real life. The 'logic' of Christ's redemptive work is beyond human understanding and isn't apprehended without faith, a gift from God. Is 58:8-9. Yet, even through faith the works of God on our behalf are inestimable to human reason. We know and believe these things because of the love of God for us. By faith we inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, by faith we are saved. Faith isn't logical, but it is sufficient and it is the way God presents His promises to the believer.
That was my point even if poorly worded in response to OP
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