Posted on 11/30/2013 2:52:50 PM PST by Ripliancum
An ecumenical group of religious historians and other scholars will convene at the University of Notre Dame’s McKenna Hall on Dec. 5-6 (Thursday-Friday) for a conference titled “Catholics and Mormons: A New Dialogue.”
The conference will explore relationships among Catholics and Mormons as their churches are increasingly allied in common social, political and relief efforts. Its themes will include “The Lay of the Land: Contemporary Mormonism and Catholicism,” “Catholicism and Mormonism in Historical Context,” “Revelation: Scriptures, Traditions, and Authoritative Teachings” and “Theologies of Encounter, Unity, and Diversity.”
(Excerpt) Read more at news.nd.edu ...
Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie stated:
"The church of the devil is the world; it is all the carnality and evil to which fallen man is heir; it is every unholy and wicked practice; it is every false religion, every supposed system of salvation which does not actually save and exalt man in the highest heaven of the celestial world. It is EVERY CHURCH except the true church, whether parading under a Christian or a pagan banner." (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3:551)
Now I predict that Ripliancum and/or other Lds posters will attempt to say "this isn't official church-sanctioned" teaching.
If so, then why do we still have Lds.org -- the official Mormon Church Web site -- still sanctioning Volume 3 of McConkie's New Testament Doctrinal Commentary?
(They initially sanctioned it back in 1974 in its official New Era publication)...and still retain it as its official stance these almost 40 years later!)
If you want to see for youself, then go here:
“FYI: For Your Information,” New Era, Feb 1974, 44–46 -- published by the LDS Church: Sub-headline: 'Doctrinal New Testament Commentary Vol. 3 By Bruce R. McConkie Bookcraft, 595 pp., $7.50'
Volume 3 is precisely sanctioned -- the source of the above Lds "apostle" citation! )
The conference will begin at 5 p.m. Dec. 5 (Thursday) in the McKenna Hall auditorium with a keynote address by Terryl Givens, James A. Bostwick Professor of English at the University of Richmond. A scholar of 19th-century literature and literary theory, Givens also is the author of numerous books and articles on Mormon history, culture and theology.
Please note that even though Mormon Terryl Givens --
--in covering the topic of apostasy/restoration in a 10-page presentation @ BYU in March 2012 --
--totally glossed over passages like D&C 1:30; Joseph Smith History vv. 18-20; and numerous statements made by Lds general authorities in official Lds publications & at Lds General Conferences...
...Givens still made one small concession on page 4 of that BYU presentation:
"I note in this regard that Mormons have largely abandoned the equivalence of the Great and Abominable Church and Catholicism."
Source: "'We have only the Old Thing': Rethinking Mormon Restoration": Exploring Mormon Conceptions of the Apostasy Conference Brigham Young University, 1-2 March 2012
By using the word "abandoned" -- and Givens chooses his words quite carefully -- he concedes that what he speaking about was indeed the "official" Mormon church posture on the Roman Catholic church.
A position/posture, btw, that Mormon church leadership never recanted...just more oft' slinked away from showing the same vigor of labeling the Catholic church in this era of surface "tolerance."
MEGO!
But the world KNOWS what MormonISM thinks of Catholism!!
I am SHOCKED to find gambling going on at Rick's!!
Darned good advice!
HMMMmmm...
Interesting!
Do you have any data to prove what you've just asserted?
Orson Pratt sure did!
Got any quotes from any 'real' Mormon leaders that denounce his statement?
BY specifically called out HIS churches members here:
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
Official sites are sites supported by LDS officials unless said official sites are considered unofficial by said officials.At that point such sites are unofficial unless officially referenced for official purposes by officials who can do so officially.This should not be misconstrued as an indication that official sites can be unofficially recognized as official nor should it be implied that unofficial sites cannot contain official information, but are not officially allowed to be offical despite their official contents due the their unofficialness.Official sites will be official and recognized as official by officials of the LDS unless there is an official reason to mark them as unofficial either temporally or permanently, which would make the official content officially unofficial.This is also not to imply that recognized sites, often used on FR by haters and bigots cannot contain official information, it just means that content, despite its official status, is no longer official and should be consider unofficial despite the same information being official on an official site elsewhere.Even then the officialness my be amended due to the use of the unofficial information which may determine the officialness of anything be it official or unofficial depending on how and where it is used officially or unofficially.
The conference will begin at 5 p.m. Dec. 5 (Thursday) in the McKenna Hall auditorium with a keynote address by Terryl Givens, James A. Bostwick Professor of English at the University of Richmond. A scholar of 19th-century literature and literary theory, Givens also is the author of numerous books and articles on Mormon history, culture and theology.
A few other notes on Terryl Givens, who will lead off this Mormon-Catholic conference:
Givens is on record saying the following about early "apostle" Parley P. Pratt, a direct ancestor of Mitt Romney:
"One early LDS apostle, Parley P. Pratt, took a different public-relations approach, Givens said. In tracts and debates, Pratt unabashedly proclaimed the distinct doctrines of the church such as man’s deification and God’s embodiment, Givens said. Pratt was trying to get the critics to engage the new faith’s theological claims. “I’ve always admired his pluck,” said Givens, whose biography of Pratt, co-written with Matthew Grow, will be published next year. “Pratt’s attitude seemed to be Christendom was a ship about to sink and Mormonism had the lifeboats,” Givens said. Pratt resisted the impulse of most Mormons to head back to the foundering ship.
Source: LDS don’t get theological respect because they seek and shun mainstream acceptance, prof says
So...this supposed Mormon rep "frontal face" unto the Catholics has co-authored a book about Lds "apostle" Parley P. Pratt and conceded to a Utah newspaper that he "admired his pluck".
Let's cite Parley P. Pratt's comments about Catholicism, shall we?
Q. Is the Roman Catholic Church the Church of Christ?
A. No: for she has no inspired priesthood or officers…
Q. How long since the Roman Catholic Church lost the authority and ceased to be the Church of Christ?
A. She never had authority and never was the Church of Christ…
Q. Who founded the Roman Catholic Church?
A. The Devil, through the medium of Apostates… (The Seer, 1854, 205)
Parley Pratt again:
Want to see an online version of this book? The Seer
Yet, I'll betcha ya won't see Terryl Givens citing Parley P. Pratt on Dec. 5, right? Why not, Pratt admirer Givens?
If you'll be present that night -- be sure to raise Pratt questions with these quotes to Givens -- if only in private pre or post presentation.
Orson Pratt, Parley's brother, was also an Lds "apostle"...and also was a direct ancestor of Mitt Romney...as cousins eventually married in that family chain.
Orson Pratt proclaimed:
"This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now"
Source: Journal of Discourses, vol. 18, p. 44
And:
"But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance"
Source: Journal of Discourses, Volume 18, p. 172
Mitt Romney in his FIRST run said he "embraced" "the faith of his fathers"...And to think of all those Catholics who while not wanting to vote for Obama -- at least didn't add a concern about voting for a man whose G-G grandpas ragged on their faith in such a way...never apologizing but actually embracing that!
“'Catholics and Mormons: A New Dialogue'” is sponsored by..." -- and it lists three Catholic groups and two Mormon organizations -- one of which is the BYU Religious Education program.
Now when you click on the link provided for the BYU Religious Education program...it won't take but a few more clicks from that Web site until you come across this Religious Education book promo:
Exploring the First Vision
Now one of the many "First Vision" accounts is what Mormon leaders made into the "2" section I posted earlier (see post #39) -- referenced as Mormon "scripture" Joseph Smith - History:
After the heading row, Row #1 -- OFFICIAL Mormon "scripture" teaches that..."ALL sects...ALL wrong" (Joseph Smith - History, v. 18-19, Pearl of Great Price) This doesn't make ANY exception for Catholicism. Next row (same source): "ALL the sects...ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight…they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN…” This doesn't make ANY exception for Catholicism.
Ah, the irony...
On the one hand, you have the BYU Religious Education Program promoting so-called "civic dialogue" -- a mere show on the surface, mind you...
...yet behind the scenes, they promote a published book featuring/highlighting the very peculiar Mormon "scriptures" that label Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox as...
* "all...wrong"
* "all creeds were an abomination" in the Mormon gods' "sight"
* "they teach for doctrines the commandments of men"
* and "all" such "professors" (professing believers) are "corrupt"
pay attention....it's Mormon, not Muslim
I have problems with them also, but our #2 son graduated from there, got married in their chapel to a St Mary's student, in the 1980's, is still Married and Catholic, and is ULTRA conservative.....of course he had the advantage of having a father who made even Ronald Reagan sound liberal!!!!
“The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church is the great corrupt ecclesiastic power, represented by great Babylon which has made all nations drunk with her wickedness, and she must fall, after she has been warned with the sound of the everlasting gospel.
- Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, p.84 - p.85
1 Nephi 13:5-6:
And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity. And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it.
1 Nephi 13:8:
And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.
1 Nephi 22:13:
And the blood of that great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall turn upon their own heads; for they shall war among themselves, and the sword of their own hands shall fall upon their own heads, and they shall be drunken with their own blood.
“When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done.” Improvement Era message to [Mormon] Ward Teachers circa 1945. “When the [LdS] Prophet speaks the debate is over.” LdS Church First Counselor, Eldon Tanner 1979
pay attention....it's Mormon, not Muslim [terycarl]
You haven't been keeping up on all the Mormon "ecumenical" overtures toward Muslims, eh Tery?
Who is one of the two Mormon sponsors of this dialogue with the Catholics?
From the original thread source:
“Catholics and Mormons: A New Dialogue” is sponsored by...Brigham Young University’s Wheatley Institution...
When you click on that link they provide to BYU's Wheatley Institution, and then click on their video library --
--Wheatley Institution Library: Categorical Listing: International Affairs
...you get speakers like these!
* Seyyed Nasr Islam: Truth and Beauty September 6, 2012
* Khaled Abou El FadlKhaled Abou El Fadl Islam and the West Symposium April 6, 2011
* Islam and the West Symposium: Session 1 April 6, 2011
* Islam and the West Symposium: Session 2 April 6, 2011
* Abdul Aziz SaidAbdul Aziz Said Islamic-Western Peacemaking: Partnerships for a Better World February 8, 2011
* And several Symposiums on the Challenge of Afghanistan and Pakistan October 29, 2009
Well, who knows...??? Perhaps all this Mormon ecumenicalism with the Muslims could eventually prompt a merger by the next century...
After all, Joseph Smith & Muhammad both said...
...they had angels appear to them...
...while they were illiterate...
...who told them to recite certain things...
...over & against the Bible, which they both regarded as corrupt...
...Smith said Christians were "corrupt" apostates who embraced 100% abominable creeds -- like Muhammad who called Christians "infidels"...
...and both groups committed terrorist atrocities on Sept. 11 in American history (Mormons, 1857; Muslims, 2001)
The convergence goes on & on...including how Smith told his people that he would be "a Muhammad" to them!
My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong) – and which I should join. … I was answered by God that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” He again forbade me to join with any of them – Prophet Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith History 1:18-20
Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century. – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167
The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God. – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171
Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.” – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:176
Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127
Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225
What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing ... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225
The Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable … but with the Bible it was not and is not so … it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was. – Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13
In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints “do not believe in the traditional Christ.”No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. – Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7
Elcid, ALL: I partially addressed this in post #41...
Ripliancum CLAIMS that McConkie was "corrected by the leadership of the Church" -- but he is simply talking about the 1958 edition of McConkie's MORMON DOCTRINE book.
What Mormons like Ripliancum -- and other naive Mormons -- are seemingly unaware of -- is that the Lds church STILL sanctions the following McConkie quote in numerous places online!!
Exactly WHERE can you find CURRENT sanction by the Mormon Church (Lds.org) re: McConkie's Volume 3 of his Doctrinal New Testament Commentary???
(1) Its New Era February 1974 issue -- STILL disseminated worldwide via its Web site: “FYI: For Your Information,” New Era, Feb 1974, 44–46 -- published by the LDS Church: Sub-headline: 'Doctrinal New Testament Commentary Vol. 3 By Bruce R. McConkie Bookcraft, 595 pp., $7.50'
(2) Here: El Nuevo Testamento: Page 164
(3) And here: El Nuevo Testamento: Page 169
(4) And here: El Nuevo Testamento: Page 172
(5) And here: El Nuevo Testamento: Page 179
(6) And here: El Nuevo Testamento: Page 181
Note for those of you who don't speak Spanish re: sources 2-->6 above: "Tomo" = "Volume".
So the Mormon Church is consistently targeting the Hispanic communities in the U.S., Central America, South America, and elsewhere -- attempting to slide thru the side door claims that the Catholic and Protestant churches in their midst are within the umbrella of the "church of the devil."
For example, that one Spanish document alone cites McConkie 39 times!!!!
They want Spanish-speaking converts to become saturated with McConkie-isms...and, once introduced to gobs of McConkie indoctrinations, thereby get ahold of his books to read quotes like what I highlighted in my last post.
Your capturing & citing Ejonesie's classic Flying Inman assessment never fails to size up Mormonism with perfect clarity:
What's "funny" in Mormonism is that an employed "PR" rep of Lds, Inc....
...is more fully embraced by Mormon grassroots (who want to "look good" in the eyes of their "Gentile" neighbors)
...than the DIRECT words spoken by their 19th and 20th century "prophets" and apostles!
Utterly unbelievable!!!
We've noted how numerous FREEPER Mormons thru the years will quickly side with the "PR" rep as representing "official" Mormondom -- quoting them...
...all while casting Brigham Young, or Mitt Romney's GG Grandfathers, Orson and Parley Pratt (Lds "apostles"); or Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie, under the bus.
(It's all about surface image)
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