Posted on 11/05/2013 7:28:14 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
The Book of Job, in my humble opinion, is perhaps one of the most spiritually enlightening books of the Bible. Within it, Job and his "comforters" engage in a long and lengthy dialogue; The Book is punctuated and peppered with the if/then, after this therefore because of this, and empircal evidence and so-called "revelation knowledge" from Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar.
Were one to boil it down to its most essential part(s), the book would fall on these lines:
Job is spoken of as being spiritually right and good in the eyes of God, and that he did nothing to deserve what befell him - yet God allowed satan to test him nonetheless. Job is told at the end of the book that he had spoken what was right concerning God, although his teachings weren't infinitely perfect. Job's three comforters, and a fourth - a young man - are chided by God, with the fourth actually totally ignored by God.
Job relates the following in the book:
1.) There are times in this life when the righteous receive what the wicked deserve.
2.) There are times in this life when the wicked receive what the righteous deserve.
3.) There are wicked people whose lives are cut short.
4.) There are wicked people who live long, prosperous lives and go down to the grave surrounded by loved ones, smiling and happy.
5.) There are wicked people who have nothing but heartache and misery their whole lives.
6.) There are righteous people who get the same as #5.
7.) Satan can "bless" people, too. Who else was it that led the Sabaeans and the Chaldeans to raid Job's property and steal away his goods?
Job says to Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar, who are reduced to saying that God will punish the children of the wicked: "why should God punish the children of the wicked?" Why not punish the wicked man himself in this life, or punish the children in front of the wicked man "that he may see it."
Better yet, why should God allow the wicked man to come into existence at all, Job asks. Why not let him be stillborn?
Some might say that God wants to give the wicked man a chance to be saved.
But, in the end, why would God let any person be born if He knows that they will be born, turn wicked at some point, and die and go to hell? Would it be better then for all the wicked to be stillborn - as Job postulated - even though Job may or may not have had any concept of hell?
Job's question at the end is still a relevant one. Why let the wicked be born at all?
Why create Lucifer in the first place?
What is interesting to note is that man repeatedly attempts to create order out of chaos, but - in the end - the attempt(s) to create order and symmetry eventually fall to ruin, replaced by yet another attempt and so on.
Tower of Babel, the head of gold...the legs of iron, the feat and toes of iron and clay...
I was hoping the conclusion of the article was going to be insightful rather than another mystery
Terrible hermeneutics, my FRiend. You may wish to re-read Job and look for the real story.
Yea, what a let down! God is like a suitor looking for true love. He is an inscrutable God - we can’t totally figure him out and we chaff against that idea. He allows other things in life that our heart’s can go after instead of him - all in the pursuit of real love and devotion. He say, “Trust me, obey me, pursue me, show me the reality of your faith in me and your love for me now amidst the confusion and unfairness of life.” We want a world that we can control and understand. One where x amount of work produces x amount of output. Where what we think is fair equals the results we expect. We want God to love us on our terms. What we get is a world that tends to not make sense and seems harsh. We forget easily that our very next breath depends upon him. All that is good comes from him. Life comes from him. To know him is to know life, meaning, fulness. Even in this life we only get a little taste of what is to come even if we chose to serve him now - but it’s enough to sustain us till the Kingdom is revealed. The one big event that defines history is the coming of God’s Son into this world to die for our sins and make a way back to the Father and to restoration. God the Father didn’t change the circumstances for his son. He experienced the world exactly as we do. God the Father didn’t remove the cross for his son. He didn’t make the nails, the thorns, the spear not hurt. He turned his face away when the sin of the whole world was placed on his son and his son cried out in pain, “My God, my God why have you forsaken me?” Jesus still asks the question, “Lovest thou me more than these?” Remember, he said we would find him if we seek for him with all of our hearts. To know him you have to come his way not your way. He promised that his yoke is easy and his burden is light. He promised to never leave you or forsake you. He promised that if you trust him you will be an overcomer - defeating all the lies of the enemy. You will have his peace, his love, his assurance and you will reign in life right now. That doesn’t mean no difficulties or “riches” now. It does mean fellowship with Jesus and God the Father. When you have that - nothing else will matter and you will realize that that is enough. The self-life is just too tempting for most. Like Franky said, most of us would rather do it, “M-y w-a-y!” Some day every knee will bowl and every tongue will confess that Christ is Lord. I would encourage all to do it now - before this age of grace is over.
God is certainly capable of doing what He wants and controlling what He wishes. But I see little evidence that he micromanages everything. He allows free will and operates at a higher level. At the mundane day to day level He seems to generally let it go and then intervenes as He chooses.
I found CS Lewis book on the problem of pain instructive - to a point. The usual expanation is that we live in a fallen world because of Satan and Adam. I find that insufficient an explanation for me intellectually. However I don’t worry about it because we are not supposed to understand all these things now anyway
God didn’t create Lucifer. Lucifer created himself, remember he was an archangel who decided to rebel against God thus becoming Satan.
http://www.markbeast.com/satan/history-of-satan.htm
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/made_satan
THE BOOK OF JOB
The Book of Job, named after its protagonist (apparently not an Israelite; cf. Ez 14:14, 20), is an exquisite dramatic treatment of the problem of the suffering of the innocent. The contents of the book, together with its artistic structure and elegant style, place it among the literary masterpieces of all time. This is a literary composition, and not a transcript of historical events and conversations.
The prologue (chaps. 1–2) provides the setting for Job’s testing. When challenged by the satan’s questioning of Job’s sincerity, the Lord gives leave for a series of catastrophes to afflict Job. Three friends come to console him. Job breaks out in complaint (chap. 3), and a cycle of speeches begins. Job’s friends insist that his plight can only be a punishment for personal wrongdoing and an invitation from God to repent. Job rejects their inadequate explanation and challenges God to respond (chaps. 3–31). A young bystander, Elihu, now delivers four speeches in support of the views of the three friends (chaps. 32–37). In response to Job’s plea that he be allowed to see God and hear directly the reason for his suffering, the Lord answers (38:1–42:6), not by explaining divine justice, but by cataloguing the wonders of creation. Job is apparently content with this, and, in an epilogue (42:7–17), the Lord restores Job’s fortune.
The author or authors of the book are unknown; it was probably composed some time between the seventh and fifth centuries B.C. Its literary pattern, with speeches, prologue and epilogue disposed according to a studied plan, indicates that the purpose of the writing is didactic. But the lessons that the book teaches are not transparent, and different interpretations of the divine speeches and of the final chapter are possible. The Book of Job does not definitively answer the problem of the suffering of the innocent, but challenges readers to come to their own understanding.
The Book of Job can be divided as follows:
II. First Cycle of Speeches (3:1–14:22)
III. Second Cycle of Speeches (15:1–21:34)
IV. Third Cycle of Speeches (22:1–27:21)
V. The Poem on Wisdom (28:1–28)
VI. Job’s Final Summary of His Cause (29:1–31:37)
VII. Elihu’s Speeches (32:1–37:24)
VIII. The Lord and Job Meet (38:1–42:6)
IX. Epilogue (42:7–
Job is one of the most underutilized books in Christian ministry. It contains one of the three direct testimonies of satan contained in the Bible. It also tells a story of a man who stubbornly sought discourse with God. God eventually showed up in a big way.
You got that right. When God makes an assignment, He does not take it back. God gave us dominion in the Garden, which we promptly handed over to satan. God never came back and said, "Give me that back." No, He had already made his decision to give it to us to do with it as we wished. Yet through Christ, He gives us the power and authority to take back what is rightfully ours. He doesn't do it for us.
I had questions about this, myself; but your negative commentary would actually be informative if you would share whatever insightful thoughts you may have on Laissez-faire capitalist’s opinions.
He said much about this Book, and you seem to be dismissive of everything he’s written...but without specifics. I’m sure others feel as I do in this regard.
He said much about this Book, and you seem to be dismissive of everything he’s written...but without specifics. I’m sure others feel as I do in this regard."
My apologies for seeming to be "dismissive". That is not a useful personna to have. LF- cap's view is incorrect and it takes a reader down a road that is long and difficult. But, it began with an incorrect hermeneutic, a reading of the text without regard to whom is was addressed, nor the time frame of the letter.
I ping you to # 26 for more on this issue.
Your remarks, however, are noted and I am smarting a bit from appearing obtuse or dismissive. This topic has come up before and I have elsewhere dealt with this at length in an attempt to present the Gospel of grace as the Bible actually delivers it. Evidently, I have fallen short of my ambition.
If you would like to engage in a broader discussion about the message of the letter to the Hebrews, let me know. The letter is so full of encouragement and value when taken "in context" that even as we Gentiles read "over their shoulders", the remarks of Paul are just jaw-droppingly powerful. However, as I note in #26, they cannot be read piecemeal or in parts/pieces. The argument is long and drawn out, but will give any believer goose-bumps of encouragement.
Thank you for that humble response, and I sincerely apologize for the tone of my post. Since I am, as what might best be described as an “occasional” reader and contributor to this site, I have obviously and completely misjudged your comments. I shall not make that error in the future.
As to the issue itself, I will follow up with your suggestions and, again, I apologize for the unnecessary abruptness in my post.
I was away from FR for most of yesterday so did not get an opportunity to respond to your remarks. Certainly, no apologies were necessary. But, of course, accepted as extended. Actually, I appreciated being brought up a bit short, since the intent is to counter many of the mistaken claims regarding the Bible...and that was not what you noticed. So, I have you to thank for pointing out the "tonal" errors.
And, you certainly are welcome to chime in whenever you have thoughts on these interchanges. No one has a lock on all the right perspectives, another reason grace is so very needed.
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