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Substitutionary atonement debate sparked by editorial on 'In Christ Alone' lyrics
Baptist Press ^ | Aug 12, 2013 | Erin Roach

Posted on 08/12/2013 3:23:20 PM PDT by Graybeard58

NASHVILLE (BP) -- The centrality of the doctrine of substitutionary atonement is being emphasized by Southern Baptist leaders after a state newspaper editor wrote that he does not sing certain words of a popular hymn due to its mention of God's wrath.

Substitutionary atonement refers to the belief that Jesus died in the place of sinners, taking on Himself the wrath of God that they deserved.

Bob Terry, editor of The Alabama Baptist, in an Aug. 8 editorial, paralleled the angst expressed by a Presbyterian Church USA hymnal committee in rejecting the song "In Christ Alone" because of the line "Till on that cross as Jesus died/The wrath of God was satisfied."

"Some popular theologies do hold that Jesus' suffering appeased God's wrath," Terry wrote. "That is not how I understand the Bible and that is why I do not sing the phrase 'the wrath of God was satisfied' even though I love the song 'In Christ Alone.'"

Terry's editorial prompted numerous reactions on Twitter from concerned Southern Baptist leaders, including Daniel Akin, Hershael York, Chad Brand and Jason Duesing, as well as an official statement from Rick Lance, executive director of the Alabama Baptist State Board of Missions, and a clarification by Terry.

A clarification by Terry was issued to the media Aug. 12 in which he wrote that some of the controversy could relate to "different meanings of the word 'wrath.'"

In his editorial, Terry wrote that the Bible "speaks clearly about the wrath of God and warns that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God."

"Yet there remains a question about whether God was an angry God at Golgotha whose wrath had to be appeased by the suffering of the innocent Jesus," Terry wrote. "Sometimes Christians carelessly make God out to be some kind of ogre whose angry wrath overflowed until the innocent Jesus suffered enough to calm Him down."

Terry concluded, "God is not the enemy. He is our seeking Friend (Luke 15). That is why I prefer to focus on His love evidenced at Calvary rather than on His wrath."

In a clarification posted above the original column, Terry said the editorial was not about atonement but "about what has been called 'the mindset of God' at Calvary. Some emphasize God as angry and vengeful. To me this does not properly recognize God's love expressed in the incarnation...."

Lance, along with Alabama State Board of Missions President John Killian, released a statement Aug. 9 in response to the editorial, noting, "We share the expressed concerns of many who have disagreed with the article."

Lance and Killian, pastor of Maytown Baptist Church, affirmed the lyrics of the hymn In Christ Alone and wrote, "As Alabama Baptists seek to be true to Scripture, we affirm the essential and historic Christian doctrine of substitutionary atonement." They offered their prayer support to Terry and the newspaper's staff "and we call on all who have expressed concern to pray as well."

In a tweet Aug. 9, Lance wrote, "I love the Gettys! I love 'In Christ Alone.' I believe in the substitutionary atonement of Christ!" and he linked to a video performance of the song. Keith Getty co-wrote the song, and his wife Kristyn sings it. In a second tweet, Lance wrote, "I especially love the lyrics affirming substitutionary atonement."

Akin, president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, tweeted a link to Terry's column Aug. 8, adding, "Baptist[s] should be embarrassed by this!" In a subsequent tweet, Akin indicated that Terry was saying Jesus didn't satisfy the wrath of God "after misrepresenting what is meant."

"To deny the wrath of God was poured out on Jesus at the cross reveals a basic misunderstanding of God's holiness/love & sin's gravity/cost," Akin tweeted.

For Akin and others, it's not an either/or proposition; it's that God's love and His wrath both are vital elements of the cross.

York, professor of Christian preaching at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, tweeted a link to the editorial and wrote, "I am stunned at this." In subsequent tweets, York quoted Isaiah 53:10 and wrote, "To whom did He make an offering for guilt and why, if God were not angry at sin? Why was God pleased to crush Him if not for sin?"

York also tweeted, "Why did God forsake His own Son if not for the awfulness of my sin? ... God was always FOR me and always AGAINST my sin -- which is precisely why He sacrificed His own Son. ... Please @drbobterry, if you challenge satisfaction element of the atonement, have the intellectual honesty to not misrepresent it. An ogre?"

Chad Brand, professor of Christian theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, in a comment posted below Terry's editorial, said there are several flaws in the column, particularly, "that you leave out the entire issue of propitiation," which is the doctrine that the wrath of God was satisfied by Christ on the cross.

Brand noted that although Terry cites the Holman Bible Dictionary, he cites the old edition no longer published by LifeWay Christian Resources.

"The article on expiation in the Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary has a new article which specifically argues for a biblical understanding of propitiation," wrote Brand, one of three general editors of the newer version.

Jason Duesing, vice president for strategic initiatives and assistant professor of historical theology at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, tweeted, "The substitution of Christ's sacrifice is not the stuff of preference, but rather something vital to embrace."

Duesing, in a blog post Aug. 9, said a believer's hope is found in Christ's sufficient sacrifice, "and about this hope we should sing as if our lives depended on it, for they do."

In a post on the Baptist21 website Aug. 9, Nathan Akin, pastor for disciple-making at Imago Dei Church in Raleigh, N.C., wrote that when denominations that question the authority of Scripture reject In Christ Alone, "we should not be surprised."

"However, when SBC Convention leaders question the content of that song and say they will not sing the line in question ... this should be alarming for Alabama and Southern Baptists," Akin wrote.

Terry, Akin wrote, "seems to indicate we either need to emphasize [God's] love or his wrath," whereas both are on display at the cross and in the song. Akin added that Terry "seems to deny or at least minimize Penal Substitution," and the editorial "is a stinging reminder that the Conservative Resurgence is not over."

In his clarification, Terry referenced the line in his editorial which said, "... it is God's grace that initiated the sacrifice of Jesus to provide covering and forgiveness for our sin and that His sacrifice satisfied the holy demands of God's righteousness for sin to be punished." Terry said that line in his editorial "is an affirmation of the penal substitutionary atonement understanding of salvation."

R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, wrote in a blog post Aug. 12 that "the substitutionary nature of Christ's death on the cross was a major issue in the Conservative Resurgence" within the SBC in the last quarter of the 20th century.

"In its earliest phase, modern theological liberalism developed an antipathy to the substitutionary nature of the atonement," Mohler wrote at albertmohler.com.

Mohler recounted a debate in 1987 between Fisher Humphreys, a professor at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary at the time, and Paige Patterson, now president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. "The lengthy debate revealed a deeper divide over the nature of the atonement than many Southern Baptists had been prepared to acknowledge," Mohler wrote.

The Bible, in both the Old and New Testaments, Patterson said in the 1987 debate, reveals an atonement model that is central and essential, and that model was both penal and substitutionary.

"Looking at the debate, now more than a quarter century behind us, it appears that the main issue was the centrality of substitution and the fact, as Patterson rightly insisted, that all other understandings of the cross in the Bible are themselves dependent on penal substitution," Mohler wrote.

In his statement to the media Aug. 12, Terry pointed to previous editorials he has written on the atonement for clarification of his views.

Regarding the word "wrath," Terry wrote, "If the meaning is that on Calvary God's punishment for our sins was poured out on Jesus, then that is certainly biblical and something I would never question. That is my understanding of penal substitutionary atonement and is what I have written through the years.

"If the meaning of 'wrath' is that God is vindictive and took joy in punishing His Son then that is not how I find God described in the Bible," Terry wrote.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: baptists; christianity; hymnology; hymns; music

1 posted on 08/12/2013 3:23:20 PM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: WKB

Ping.


2 posted on 08/12/2013 3:23:52 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (_.. ._. .. _. _._ __ ___ ._. . ___ ..._ ._ ._.. _ .. _. .)
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To: Graybeard58

I wonder if this revisionist pagan (yes, that is really what he is) also wants to excise every “objectionable” portion concerning God’s wrath out of his Word as well.


3 posted on 08/12/2013 3:34:01 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Graybeard58

If there was no wrath of God, there would be no need for a Saviour. Man, do people ever read the Scripture anymore?

That lyric is biblical.


4 posted on 08/12/2013 3:49:22 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: Graybeard58

Isaiah 53:10

5 posted on 08/12/2013 3:53:06 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Graybeard58

True Christianity preaches the cross of Christ.

6 posted on 08/12/2013 3:54:09 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

No, no, no, Santa God would never stand up to us.


7 posted on 08/12/2013 3:54:43 PM PDT by AppyPappy (Obama: What did I not know and when did I not know it?)
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To: Graybeard58
I do not sing the phrase "the wrath of God is satisfied."

It's a safe bet that he's not a fan of the gospel song "Minuit, Chrétiens" (Christians, it's midnight), better known in the English-speaking world as "O Holy Night." The original version states that God came to Earth in the form of a man "to erase original sin and to stop the wrath of his father," a concept absent from the English version.

8 posted on 08/12/2013 4:07:30 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Graybeard58
"Till on that cross as Jesus died/The wrath of God was satisfied."

While the lyrics make for a good song, they are not doctrinally correct...God's wrath is visible all thruout the Old Testament...And it did not end with the Crucifixion of Jesus...There's still more wrath to come...

But those who know that should have no problem singing such a beautiful, albeit slightly inaccurate song...

9 posted on 08/12/2013 4:26:13 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Graybeard58

Dear Bob,

Consider, therefore, the kindness and the sternness of God.

sincerely,
Paul, an apostle


10 posted on 08/12/2013 4:27:14 PM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: fishtank

Good verse.

IMHO, I would probably try to communicate with those who fail to understand propitiation and atonement by going back over the elements of the Tabernacle and the protocol by which man was able to have fellowship with God.

The Cross was focused upon Judgment.

The Arc of the Covenant had the Mercy Seat upon it. The Mercy Seat had two Cherubim facing one another, representing God’s Perfect Holiness.

His Holiness is comprised of His Perfect Righteousness and His Perfect Justice. One Cherub represented His Perfect Justice. The other represented His Perfect Righteousness.

They would keep each other in check.

Whenever something was placed on the Mercy Seat, which was unrighteous, His Perfect Righteousness demanded Perfect Justice, hence a Perfect Judgment of that before them. In turn, His Perfect Justice demanded a Righteousness Judgment of that laid before them, by Perfect Righteousness.

God’s Integrity demands Judgment of those in His presence and their righteousness.

Without the judgment, there is no integrity in His Holiness.

Our sins have been judged when they were imputed to Jesus Christ and He was judged. Through faith in Christ in what He provided on the Cross in that judgment, we are able to confess our sins, and now God is able to Justly and Righteously forgive us of those sins.

Forgiveness comes after the Cross, but only possible for all mankind by a Holy God at the Perfect Judgment on the Cross. His blood propitiated the wrath of God on the sins of mankind.


11 posted on 08/12/2013 4:27:47 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Graybeard58
That is not how I understand the Bible...

That's because he doesn't understand the bible. I wonder if he's Rob Bell fan.

12 posted on 08/12/2013 4:40:48 PM PDT by tbpiper
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To: Iscool
not doctrinally correct

It is when you consider the context of the song.

13 posted on 08/12/2013 4:43:56 PM PDT by tbpiper
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To: Graybeard58
the controversy could relate to "different meanings of the word 'wrath.'"

I wonder if he also has that Clintonian confusion on the meaning of the word "is".

14 posted on 08/12/2013 4:46:54 PM PDT by tbpiper
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To: Iscool

I think in context of this song the lyric IS correct; until one is born again and receives the sacrifice of Jesus blood, and resurrection they are under God’s wrath personally, so in context as in individually to the person yes this line is CORRECT. If you take it to mean universally God’s wrath then it is not correct-but I don’t believe that is what the authors of the song meant (however I don’t know them personally so I cannot ask)!


15 posted on 08/12/2013 4:54:58 PM PDT by JSDude1 (Is John Boehner the Neville Chamberlain of American Politics?)
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To: Graybeard58; GiovannaNicoletta; F15Eagle; .45 Long Colt; Buddygirl; Former Fetus; Bockscar; JLLH; ..

ping


16 posted on 08/12/2013 5:05:30 PM PDT by WKB
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To: Iscool

I love this song- when it comes on the radio, I get goosebumps and tears in my eyes...just so moving, spiritually for me.


17 posted on 08/12/2013 5:31:04 PM PDT by Engedi
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To: JSDude1; Iscool

The song is sung from the perspective of a born-again believer: “MY hope is found.....etc...” For the believer, there is no wrath to come. It was dealt with and finished upon the cross. So said Christ and so it is. Amen and amen.


18 posted on 08/12/2013 6:10:22 PM PDT by JLLH
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To: Graybeard58

The Bible would be a very short book if you exclude all of the passages that speak to God’s wrath against sinners. What would be left - Song of Solomon?


19 posted on 08/12/2013 6:27:22 PM PDT by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Still bitterly clinging to rational thought despite it's unfashionability)
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To: Iscool
While the lyrics make for a good song, they are not doctrinally correct...

With respect to the sins of justified sinners, those lyrics are nothing but doctrinally correct.

20 posted on 08/12/2013 6:45:07 PM PDT by RansomOttawa (tm)
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To: JSDude1
I see what you are saying...I was and they certainly are (unsaved) under God's condemnation but still, I don't know that I'd call it wrath, as I understand wrath in the scriptures...

Regardless, I don't think songwise it's anything to get worked up over...Still a beautiful song and I get a blessing just singing it...

21 posted on 08/12/2013 7:31:19 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool

More accurately, the justice of God was satisfied.

I suppose I can see where they are coming from, but really, there’s too much ooey, gooey, nonsense out there.

Certainly at one time, God’s wrath was over emphasized, but it simply cannot be ignored. But to over emphasize the love and mercy to the exclusion of His justice and wrath is no better.


22 posted on 08/12/2013 7:32:39 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Engedi
I love this song- when it comes on the radio, I get goosebumps and tears in my eyes...just so moving, spiritually for me.

Amen to that...

23 posted on 08/12/2013 7:33:00 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: JLLH
The song is sung from the perspective of a born-again believer: “MY hope is found.....etc...” For the believer, there is no wrath to come. It was dealt with and finished upon the cross. So said Christ and so it is. Amen and amen.

In that context, so true...Praise God...

24 posted on 08/12/2013 7:34:18 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: RansomOttawa
With respect to the sins of justified sinners, those lyrics are nothing but doctrinally correct.

I don't disagree with that...

25 posted on 08/12/2013 7:35:30 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Graybeard58

Without wrath, there is no salvation. What’s the point of being saved if there was never any jeopardy for sin to begin with???

God’s love stands in stark contrast to His wrath, yet He would not be God without both. To deny His wrath is to deny His righteousness (for it’s in perfect righteousness that His wrath is justified). To deny His righteousness is to deny Him.

The “feel-gooders” want God the grandfather, not God the Father. Fortunately, He is beyond the reach of their feeble and foolish attempts to redefine Him.


26 posted on 08/12/2013 7:52:15 PM PDT by Stingray (Stand for the truth or you'll fall for anything.)
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To: Graybeard58

“Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!” Romans 5:9


27 posted on 08/12/2013 8:59:27 PM PDT by kaehurowing
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To: Iscool

Yes, there’s more of God’s wrath to come, but as others have already mentioned, His wrath will Passover those who are saved through Christ’s death on the cross.


28 posted on 08/12/2013 9:28:59 PM PDT by Vision Thing
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To: Stingray

Yes, that’s what irks me about this article: one group says God is wrathful, while the other group says He is all love.

None of them are saying He can be both.

So I’m glad you brought up what neither side seems willing to say.


29 posted on 08/12/2013 9:33:58 PM PDT by Vision Thing
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To: Iscool

Sure about that?

It is Bible correct that beautiful hymm, “In Christ Alone.”


30 posted on 08/13/2013 6:46:22 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Graybeard58
"If the meaning of 'wrath' is that God is vindictive and took joy in punishing His Son then that is not how I find God described in the Bible," Terry wrote.

I don't either.

Who is arguing that God enjoys inflicting pain and suffering?

The cross is an example of how much God loves us and wants us to return to Him as we were in the garden.

31 posted on 08/13/2013 6:51:37 AM PDT by wmfights
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To: Graybeard58
"Yet there remains a question about whether God was an angry God at Golgotha whose wrath had to be appeased by the suffering of the innocent Jesus," Terry wrote. "Sometimes Christians carelessly make God out to be some kind of ogre whose angry wrath overflowed until the innocent Jesus suffered enough to calm Him down."

There are several things here that have biblically incorrect foundation. To make such a statement, one would have to deny the divinity of Jesus, as well as the Trinity. He's making a statement with the assumption that Jesus and God are wholly separate entities, with one imposing punishment on the other.

32 posted on 08/13/2013 6:58:22 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Biggirl
Sure about that?

It is Bible correct that beautiful hymm, “In Christ Alone.”

Couldn't be more sure...

33 posted on 08/13/2013 7:19:11 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: MrB
He's making a statement with the assumption that Jesus and God are wholly separate entities, with one imposing punishment on the other.

Yes, that occurred to me too. The concept of the Trinity is difficult for some to grasp, never the less, it's sound theology.

34 posted on 08/13/2013 7:20:32 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (_.. ._. .. _. _._ __ ___ ._. . ___ ..._ ._ ._.. _ .. _. .)
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To: Graybeard58
Looking at the world around me, and yes, even myself, I can see why God who is holy, good and righteous, would be full of wrath.

At the same time, I am so thankful that He loved us enough to give His only Son, so that by faith in Him, we could have everlasting life.

35 posted on 08/14/2013 8:45:52 AM PDT by MEGoody (You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Cvengr

Cvengr, I am in full agreement as to how you describe God’s righteousness.

Do you believe Jesus’ blood was placed on the Mercy Seat?

If so, was it the blood of the sinless Man Jesus or the sinless God Jesus?

May God our Father lead us to His truth, BVB


36 posted on 08/15/2013 10:00:07 AM PDT by Bobsvainbabblings
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To: Bobsvainbabblings

The humanity of Jesus Christ was judged.


37 posted on 08/15/2013 7:31:43 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: metmom
Certainly at one time, God’s wrath was over emphasized,

Careful,...there are millions of fallen angels who would love that conclusion.

38 posted on 08/15/2013 7:34:53 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr

I agree Jesus’ humanity was judged. It is the only way God could say this in Romans 5 and have the Cherubim from your post @11 allow Jesus’ blood to be placed on the Mercy Seat.

Jesus had to be exactly the same as Adam and us. God could not punish us for something we could not do. God had to prove His creation, man, could live a sinless life. His Christ is that proof for God’s supreme court in heaven with the Cherubim as judges.

God is omnipresent. He knew “His Son, a type of Him who was to come”, could and would live a sinless life.

Romans 5:6-21
New King James Version (NKJV)

Christ in Our Place
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

May God our Father lead us to His truth, BVB


39 posted on 08/16/2013 1:54:39 PM PDT by Bobsvainbabblings
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