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Vatican recognizes 95 new martyrs of Spanish Civil War
Catholic World News ^ | June 04, 2013

Posted on 06/05/2013 9:59:54 AM PDT by Petrosius

The Vatican has proclaimed 95 more martyrs of the Spanish Civil War. On June 3, with the approval of Pope Francis, the Congregation for the Causes of Saints issued four separate decrees, recognizing the martyrdom of:

In other decrees, the Congregation acknowledged the “heroic virtue” of the following, who will now be qualified for beatification if a miracle is attributed to their influence:



TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; History; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: martyrs; spain; spanishcivilwar

1 posted on 06/05/2013 9:59:54 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius
This story without historical context appears as a fly speck on our computer screens.

The historical context is that the Spanish Civil War and the Catholic martyrs here listed should be seen as a whistle stop along the journey from the atrocities against religion of the French Revolution and the murderous repression of religion by the Soviets in their revolution.

It is sobering to contemplate the instinct toward bloody repression of religion contained deep within the left's DNA.


2 posted on 06/05/2013 10:09:16 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: Petrosius

Good. I used to be neutral on the SCW, thinking both sides villains. After doing some in-depth reading, I understand much more why the right rebelled in Spain. The “Republicans”... Communists, really... were hunting down and killing priests and nuns.


3 posted on 06/05/2013 10:13:18 AM PDT by DesScorp
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To: DesScorp

While reading your comment, Chile flashed in my mind. The Catholic Church in South America is a real aberration and its ties to communists defy all common sense. Pinochet saw his country be “communized” but the Church refused to support him. It is extremely difficult to find anything objective about events in Chile but if Allende got his way, it is likely Catholicism would have been stamped out by now. The left hates Pinochet as much as they hate Franco. They just wouldn’t stand aside and let the communists take over.


4 posted on 06/05/2013 10:30:29 AM PDT by trubolotta
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To: nathanbedford

Repression of some religions, that should be. Well, all of them, except for Islam. For some reason, perhaps because it is the perfect theocratic “religion” for a communist state, the left adores Islam.


5 posted on 06/05/2013 10:32:07 AM PDT by livius
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To: DesScorp

Same here. On close examination it turns out that the Nationalists were actually defending their country. I hesitate to call them the “good guys” but they were morally superior to the “Republican” Soviet handpuppets. The prevaling belief that the Nationalists were bloodthirsty killers little better than Nazis is the result of 75 years of leftist propaganda.


6 posted on 06/05/2013 10:39:22 AM PDT by jboot (It can happen here because it IS happening here.)
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To: DesScorp

Unfortunately, we have been fed a bill of goods re: the SCW.

Our culture has been inundated with Hemingway, The Lincoln Brigade, Hollywood’s interpretation, etc, ad nauseum.


7 posted on 06/05/2013 10:45:41 AM PDT by left that other site (You Shall Know the Truth, and the Truth Shall Set You Free...John 8:32)
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To: livius
I agree with you and I think that is because the impulse of Islam is toward the collective whereas the salvation offered by Christianity is essentially an individual affair, a liberating but intensely personal event.

Communism if nothing else is a collectivist mentality and its temporal salvation comes from acceptance by the group and immersion into it. Communism claims that Christianity is an opiate which enslaves which, of course, is contrary to the reality. Communism offers the siren of equality but delivers enslavement.

Islam is cultist and utterly subordinates the individual to the cult. Small wonder Communism is so comfortable in its presence.


8 posted on 06/05/2013 10:56:04 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: nathanbedford

That’s an excellent analysis and it really makes clear how the two differ (in a way that I think most people don’t understand).


9 posted on 06/05/2013 11:14:49 AM PDT by livius
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To: Petrosius

The communists in Spain did what the communists did in the Russian Empire - kill clerics.


10 posted on 06/05/2013 12:16:39 PM PDT by popdonnelly (The right to self-defense is older than the Constitution.)
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To: trubolotta

You wrote:

“Pinochet saw his country be “communized” but the Church refused to support him.”

No, actually the Catholic Church supported the coup. The Church over time came to believe Pinochet was too brutal (which was true), was corrupt (which was true), and could have left power sooner (which also was true).

Read here starting at page 36: http://wesscholar.wesleyan.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1256&context=etd_hon_theses (yes, I know it’s just a BA thesis, but the kid got his facts right on that point).


11 posted on 06/05/2013 3:41:54 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: DesScorp
After doing some in-depth reading, I understand much more why the right rebelled in Spain. The “Republicans”... Communists, really... were hunting down and killing priests and nuns.

It would be a good deal more accurate to say the hunting down and killing of priests and nuns was primarily a consequence of the rightist coup, not its cause.

<50 priests were killed before the war started, over a several year period. During the war, and especially in the first few months, something over 5000 clergy were murdered.

To be fair, the other side was doing pretty much the same thing, killing members of groups it saw as opponents, such as union members and leaders, schoolteachers, etc.

To be even more fair, both sides were "right" to do so in a sense. Most of the members of the clergy were opponents of the government, and most schoolteachers were opposed to the rightists.

The Red Terror death toll has been estimated at 40k to 110k. The White Terror killed somewhere between 200k and 400k, but then they won, and they had a lot longer to do their killing in.

Of course, not all of those killed by either side were innocent victims.

12 posted on 06/05/2013 4:36:28 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: All; DesScorp
There Be Dragons (2011)

A film that you or others may be interested in. I highly recommend it.

13 posted on 06/05/2013 7:03:22 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: Sherman Logan

The church- and convent-burnings were started before the war (they convinced the generals they had to fight); the leftist government outlawed the Jesuits as well. Read “The Last Crusade” and you’ll understand how it happened; understanding the Spanish Civil War is key to understanding many Europeans’ tolerance/support of fascism (as opposed to Stalinism, which they witnessed in Spain and of which they were terrified). The arrest of the Falange leader months before the war was important as well; imagine Obama’s first executive order was to arrest Mitt Romney.

There is no comparison between the wrongs committed by the generals and the communists in Spain between 1936 and 1939; in 1937 the communists had murdered many of their own allies (the anarchists) in their own civil war. Once they were exposed for what they were, the “Republic” could never garner enough public support to win. In fact, they steadily lost ground from the first days of the war, and murdered as many people as possible until the army (assisted by Hitler & Mussolini) stopped them.


14 posted on 06/06/2013 3:30:15 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: Sherman Logan

“The Red Terror death toll has been estimated at 40k to 110k.”

40K is an absurd figure when you realize they have the names of 7K priests alone that were murdered.


15 posted on 06/06/2013 3:33:36 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2; Sherman Logan

>> in 1937 the communists had murdered many of their own allies (the anarchists) in their own civil war.

George Orwell was nearly killed by the Communists as he had fought with the Anarchists. He had to leave the country incognito and barely escaped with his life. Homage to Catalonia, his book about this time, is a short and highly worthwhile read. Those events certainly helped color 1984.


16 posted on 06/06/2013 3:54:02 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda Est)
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To: kearnyirish2

Rummel puts the mid-level estimate of Democides for both sides at about 100k each during the war years. Then he has another 275K for Franco 1939-1975, most of which I would guess would be in post-war purges.

I’ve always though Rummel reasonably unbiased by politics.

20th Century Democide page
http://hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

Big ugly chart from which the above numbers originate
http://hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF

Detail for the above
http://hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB14.1D.GIF


17 posted on 06/06/2013 4:11:07 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda Est)
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To: kearnyirish2
There is no comparison between the wrongs committed by the generals and the communists in Spain between 1936 and 1939

True, the generals killed some multiple of those killed by the commies.

This was mostly because they won and had the leisure to slaughter their opponents without the drudgery of having to fight them. And I'm sure the numbers would have been reversed had the commies won.

in 1937 the communists had murdered many of their own allies (the anarchists) in their own civil war.

Also true. However, it should be pointed out that the anarchists were not themselves nice people. Had they won, which for anarchists is pretty nearly inconceivable by definition, there is no reason to think they would have been any less murderous than the commies or the Francoists.

18 posted on 06/06/2013 5:49:33 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: kearnyirish2

I was reporting the estimates, not making my own.


19 posted on 06/06/2013 5:51:47 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: FreedomPoster

Rummel is a great resource.

Not always politically unbiased, though. He fairly recently raised his democide number for European colonization to 50M.

I emailed him and pointed out that this number was misleading, since it was based on the assumption that the previous and alternative native rulers would have committed no democide. Which given the history of pre-British India, for example, is not a reasonable assumption.

He emailed back and agreed I was right, but did not change his numbers.


20 posted on 06/06/2013 5:57:10 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: FreedomPoster

Orwell left Spain a very disillusioned man; he realized how much propaganda they’d been fed (told of great victories where there had been no batlle at all, and the complete cover-up of disastrous defeats); he’s lucky he got out alive. People like Orwell & Hemingway must have felt like fools as they aged; they’d certainly been played for fools.


21 posted on 06/06/2013 5:09:23 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: FreedomPoster

Many of those on the left that took part in the murders of 1936 were never prosecuted for them (there was an exodus into France late in the war), and once the war was over many that had fled actually returned. There was an orderly process after the war for dealing with such things, and it involved trials and such; there was no mass retribution.

The terror carried out by civilians was almost exclusively by the left; the Falange itself was actually a small party. Once the war started I don’t count most people killed as “civilian deaths”; the left relied on civilians for its army (since most of the army & police sided with the right).


22 posted on 06/06/2013 5:14:58 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

Orwell I think did. Hemingway I’m not so sure.


23 posted on 06/06/2013 5:19:25 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda Est)
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To: Sherman Logan

“True, the generals killed some multiple of those killed by the commies. This was mostly because they won and had the leisure to slaughter their opponents without the drudgery of having to fight them.”

This is a myth which is easily spread about the Spanish Civil War because Americans were deliberately kept in the dark about it (they wouldn’t have fought in Europe in WWII if they understood what happened in Spain, and they certainly would have understood why French troops fought Americans in North Africa in 1942 if they knew what happened in Spain). If you ever have a chance to read Franco’s speech when he agreed to host American bases in Spain during the Cold War, it is very telling; the US reached out to him in the 1950s when they realized what he knew in 1936.

The best thing about the last few Popes naming these martyrs is that they can give names, dates, manner of death, etc. for each one; the commies and their useful idiots in the West have no such lists of Franco’s alledged civilian victims after the war.


24 posted on 06/06/2013 5:21:22 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: Sherman Logan

See # 24; estimates are created by those with an agenda. Spain didn’t close its borders after the war like the Soviet Union; people freely came and went. If there was a list of victims of Franco, we’d be seeing it; the Church has been constantly adding names and faces to the list of the anarchists and communist during 1936, and they should be able to keep going for decades to come.


25 posted on 06/06/2013 5:24:52 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: FreedomPoster

“Orwell I think did. Hemingway I’m not so sure.”

Hemingway did the right thing when he saw what the other leftists he shilled for ravage Cuba; maybe that regret was what got to him.


26 posted on 06/06/2013 5:26:02 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2
the commies and their useful idiots in the West have no such lists of Franco’s alledged civilian victims after the war.

Nor do we have lists of the tens of millions killed by the commies. But like Generalissimo Franco, they're still dead.

27 posted on 06/06/2013 6:00:04 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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