Posted on 05/05/2013 10:16:01 AM PDT by NYer
Yup; some things are VERY clear!
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
1 John 3:21-24
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
Catholics who do the will of the Father will be saved. That's pretty clear. I'll try to DO my best.
Please show us the will of the Father in the scriptures...Don't keep it a Catholic secret...We'd all like to know...
St. Paul spoke Elizabethan English! Whoda thunk?
"That's why your religion took this verse out of the bible:"
Actually, it is in my religions' Bible, because we put it there. In plain and properly translated English it states:
"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15
Ironically, it is preceded by:
Remind them of this, and charge them before the Lord[a] to avoid disputing about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. - 2 Timothy 2:14
Peace and Blessings
Yeah not so much. What He actually said was "This is the body of me" As opposed to this is my car. He was clearly indicating that it was his literal body.
BTW the (unmet) challenge was to show a case of "Estin" being used figuratively.
Wrong...MY is a simplified form of OF ME which is a completely different word which is not used in the text...Who's Greek are you reading from and what makes it authoritative??? And who translated it???
You are not reading from the Catholic Douay Rheims either...What manuscripts does your translation come out of???
Read what I wrote. you are agreeing with ME. Nice Job proving the Catholics correct.
well my God created the entire universe out of nothing, so I have no trouble believing that if he says something is His body than it is His body. It is a shame that your God is not all powerful.
It's no secret. Catholics can be informed by the Catechism of the Catholic Church. If you don't go for that, I'd suggest the Beatitudes in Scripture. If you don't go for that, I can't help you.
John 3
New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. He came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do apart from the presence of God.” Jesus answered him, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be astonished that I said to you, ‘You must be born from above.’ The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered him, “Are you a teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things?
“Very truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen; yet you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.
“Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. For all who do evil hate the light and do not come to the light, so that their deeds may not be exposed. But those who do what is true come to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that their deeds have been done in God.”
After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he spent some time there with them and baptized. John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim because water was abundant there; and people kept coming and were being baptized— John, of course, had not yet been thrown into prison.
Now a discussion about purification arose between John’s disciples and a Jew. They came to John and said to him, ‘Rabbi, the one who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you testified, here he is baptizing, and all are going to him.’ John answered, ‘No one can receive anything except what has been given from heaven. You yourselves are my witnesses that I said, “I am not the Messiah, but I have been sent ahead of him.” He who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom’s voice. For this reason my joy has been fulfilled. He must increase, but I must decrease.’
The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly things. The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard, yet no one accepts his testimony. Whoever has accepted his testimony has certified this, that God is true. He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. The Father loves the Son and has placed all things in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God’s wrath.
__________
John 3
King James Version (KJV)
There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
For John was not yet cast into prison.
Then there arose a question between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purifying.
And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
He must increase, but I must decrease.
He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
I am Saved by the Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ shed on Calvary. I am Saved by The Lamb of God. I am Saved by God’s Eternal Mercy and I am Saved daily by His Holy Spirit. Yes, I am Saved. Glory be to God!
I did and no I'm not...
Whatever you reckon mate.
“As a former Catholic and now a Christian,...”
If you didn’t know as a Catholic that you were in fact a Christian, you were terribly catechized.
I am a CATHOLIC and you can bet your bottom dollar that I am also a CHRISTIAN.
I’m just luckier than you in that I know what the Church teaches and that I know that I am a Christian.
If you didn’t believe in Jesus when you were a practicing Catholic then perhaps you should actually read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and learn a few things about what you actually gave up.
Jesus used a lot of material objects to describe Himself—He said, “I am the Light.” “I am the Door.” “I am the Shepherd.”
But He never said, “That light is Me.” “That door is Me.” “That shepherd is Me.”
However, He did say, “That Bread is Me. That Wine is Me.”
You either believe Christ or you think he is a liar.
Your choice.
And yes those are your choices.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%206:%2035-71&version=NRSVCE
Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
41 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread [3] the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 Jesus [4] said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.
The Words of Eternal Life
60 When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. 67
So Jesus said to the Twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” 71 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the Twelve, was going to betray him.
So, how much do you believe of what Jesus said? 36 verses just here to tell you to eat His flesh and drink His blood or you have no life in you.
Tell me, is he nuts, is he a liar? Or is He God?, and He is telling you the Truth.
**I remember very well catholic members of my community and my own family members being asked to pay for special mass to get thier family members out of purgatory.**
THIS is not true.
Statues and icons are reminders of the REAL saints who pray for us if we ask them to. Catholics do NOT pray TO these items.
Where are you getting this mistaken information?
Have you ever asked anyone to pray for you?
When I was a Catholic, I believed in what I was told about Jesus. I believed he was the Son of God. I believed he died for our sins and that he rose again from the dead. What I didn't know - because I was not taught it - was that believing IN Jesus Christ meant I believed that he died for ME and, that by believing, I had eternal life and would never perish nor be plucked from his hands. When I read John 10:27-30 for the very first time I finally understood this precious promise was mine. For the first time the Holy Spirit open my eyes and heart to receive the gospel of the grace of God. Before then, I did not imagine anyone could know they were saved. Like this thread points out, I was one of those who had a "head" knowledge about Jesus and not a heart knowledge. When the truth of the gospel sunk in, I knew that what I had been told all my life about going to heaven was not the truth.
I am a CATHOLIC and you can bet your bottom dollar that I am also a CHRISTIAN.
Well, do you also know you are saved? Do you believe that it is by faith in Christ that you are saved and not your own merit or works that save you? Do you believe Jesus died on the cross for ALL your sins and that you are going to heaven because of God's grace and not because you are good enough? If yes, then praise the Lord!
I’m just luckier than you in that I know what the Church teaches and that I know that I am a Christian.
I don't think luck has anything to do with it. Either we grasp what the gift of God is or we go through our lives in ignorance of this truth. The Catholic Church did not teach me I could have assurance of my salvation, that I could KNOW I have everlasting life. Instead, I was taught that no one could know they were saved until they died and faced judgment. And at that judgment, God would decide if I had resolved all my sins through confession and penance and I had lived a good life and did enough good works to make me worthy of getting into heaven. Though I recited the Apostles' Creed that I believe "Jesus died for our sins", I never understood that this meant he paid the penalty for my sins by his death on the cross - only that his death "open the gates of heaven".
If you didn’t believe in Jesus when you were a practicing Catholic then perhaps you should actually read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and learn a few things about what you actually gave up.
I know exactly what I "gave up". I gave up worrying that if I had died suddenly and still had sin on my soul that I would spend eternity in hell with no end, suffering forever. I gave up the idea that my efforts in any way compared to the sacrifice Christ made on my behalf or that I could ever deserve to be in heaven. I gave up the false gospel that kept me and millions of others in perpetual fear of God instead of knowing him as my Heavenly Father who desires that ALL come to repentance and the knowledge of the truth. I now know about the loving Savior who lives within me and who purifies me, sanctifies me and justifies me all through his grace and mercy. The Holy Spirit within me, who God gave as the guarantee, the down payment, of what lies ahead for me in heaven. His presence within me gives me a desire to serve him and honor him with my life not in order to BE saved but out of gratitude and love for what he has done for me.
If your church teaches you this assurance and you can rest in the Lord knowing that you have eternal life by his grace through faith, then you really ARE a Christian. You see, I know now what it means to be a real Christian - one that knows deep in her heart that she is a child of God because of Christ. One that loves and lives for him because she wants to, not because she has to. One who loves him because he first loved us. God bless you as you learn Christ.
Beautifully said.
Amen!
"If your church teaches you this assurance and you can rest in the Lord knowing that you have eternal life by his grace through faith, then you really ARE a Christian"
Hebrews 4:10 "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works..."
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