Skip to comments.Full text of speech with which Pope Francis won Papacy
Posted on 03/26/2013 5:53:10 PM PDT by Gillibrand
Hours before his election, Cardinal Bergoglio, now Pope Francis made a strong criticism of the Church and urged his colleagues to draw cardinals from reverie and work with the Gospel in the geographical peripheries of the world as well as with those in existential pain, sin and ignorance .
Cardinal Jaime Ortega, archbishop of Havana, revealed the contents of a document containing the intervention delivered by his counterpart Jorge Bergoglio, before being elected Pontiff.
(Excerpt) Read more at cathcon.blogspot.com ...
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.
Cardinal Jaime Ortega of Havana is a notorious swish and colloborator with the Castro tyranny.
Until I read all of the garbage comments at the bottom of the blog page, I was taking this seriously.
Looks like nonsense to me.
Pretty sure they took vows to keep the proceedings secret.
“won the Papacy”?
Did the speech convince the Holy Spirit to vote for him? Or is the author implying the Holy Spirit had nothing to do with the voting and it was all about influencing human cardinals?
This was a talk given as part of the General Congregation, the assembly of all the cardinals BEFORE the conclave began. There was no requirement of secrecy. Bergoglio authorized dissemination of this speech.
But self-referential Church””is not some dramatically new idea—John Paul II certainly was speaking radically to the entire modern project, evangelizing . . .
Applied to the curia, yes, self-referential for sure. Worth criticizing, yes, but utterly new and breathtaking, well, not so much.
The author knows it was a combination of both. The headline simply means that this talk got a lot of attention among the cardinals. Which may well be true. It has nothing to do with negating the Holy Spirit.
Catholicism is usually both/and, not either/or.
“The author knows it was a combination of both. The headline simply means that this talk got a lot of attention among”
Got it. The candidates do things, say stuff, and the cardinals react, showing the Holy Spirit who He should choose... Which somehow then convinces them that he is the one they convinced the Holy Spirit to choose. Both/and.
Yeah vent your bile.
The same logic can be applied to the secular Cult of Obama.
Hey, you explained it.
By his history and by his acts since becoming Pope Francis I, our new Holy Father in Rome seems to be a good and blessed man.
I do hope he stops riding in that open jeep as some bad person may try to take his life. In today’s wicked world, he needs to be behind bullet and bomb resistant glass. God may love him and the Church, but some precautions are prudent.
God ordinarily works through ordinary means. Evangelicals claim all the time that they know their interpretation of Scripture is correct because they ask the Holy Spirit to guide them, and he does. Okay, so the Cardinals prayed (repeatedly) for the Holy Spirit’s guidance in their deliberations and their balloting. Are you telling us it only works when Evangelicals do it?
As a non-evangelical, I can’t comment on you question. I was trying to understand how a speech could “win” the papacy, if it is indeed the Holy Spirit who chooses. The answer was nonsense. I reflected it back to the poster.
Are you making the argument that the evangelical positions are correct because the same spirit guides them that chooses the pope? If so, I’d like to see how that works!
That's easy enough, even if you believe the assertions of the article nonsense. One could explain it as: the Holy Spirit moved Bergoglio to make the speech, which was the vehicle God choose to move the hearts of the cardinals to affirm His choice as Pope. A;though I would say that "winning" the Papacy is a poor choice of words; "attaining" would probably be better.
I'm making the argument that it's hypocritical to claim, on the one hand, that the Holy Spirit guides Marty Average Protestant when Marty does his Bible study, but on the other hand that the Holy Spirit is not active and not guiding cardinals while they talk about the next Pope or listen to a speech from someone they're evaluating. Rule out the second and you rule out the first.
As I said, God ordinarily works through ordinary means.
Bump for weekend reading
Bottom line..God determines what leaders are in Power...both the good, bad and in between..regardless of the means of men to determine that. And He uses all men to accomplish his purposes....good and bad.
So far I rather like what this Pope is doing....he’s shaking things up and that’s a good thing.....He’s going to have to dodge many who will oppose this shaking...but so far he’s got them ‘off balance’... as we can see by reponses here on the threads and in the press.
What the end result..remains to be seen...but he’s certainly a man with a mind, so far, to do it the way he determines.