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Were those who assembled on the Day of Pentecost already believers (saved) before that Day arrived?
2/5/2013 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist

Posted on 02/05/2013 6:54:39 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist

Many saw Jesus ascend into heaven on the Mount. Before this, Jesus told them to tarry in Jerusalem where they would be endued with power. Not many days afterwards, on the Day of Pentecost, tongues of fire appeared above those who had assembled together, and they spake with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance.

Now, a question that I have asked more than one person is this: were those who spake with tongues saved (believers) before the Day of Pentecost or before the moment they spake with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance?

If these believers were already saved before they spake with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance, then this means that one does not have to speak in tongues in order to go to heaven.

Secondly, this means that their speaking in tongues was a separate, subsequent, distinct act from them becoming part of the body of Christ, as they were already saved - believers (and thus a part of and the formers of the body) - before the Day of Pentecost, and before they spake with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance.

Third, this means that the body of Christ (made up of believers) was already formed before the Day of Pentecost.

Again, were they already saved before the Day of Pentecost? It seems to boil down to that question...


TOPICS: Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; History; Mainline Protestant; Other Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: baptist; baptists; dayofpentecost; pentecost; religion
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1 posted on 02/05/2013 6:54:45 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: All

Or were they saved (believers) and thus the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12-13) was in some nebulous form - formed, but yet not formed. ???? Wouldn’t make sense...


2 posted on 02/05/2013 6:56:44 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; All

BTW, with all of the aforementioned in mind, I see no evidence that the Body of Christ (made up of believers) was somehow “born” on the Day of Pentecost.


3 posted on 02/05/2013 6:58:23 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Please let us experience Ash Wednesday, Lent, Holy Week, the Triduum and Easter before we get to Pentecost.

Read the account in Acts.......3000 were converted that day — they had not been believers.


4 posted on 02/05/2013 7:02:22 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Do you honestly believe anyone could know the answer to this?


5 posted on 02/05/2013 7:04:16 AM PST by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: Salvation

Ash Wednesday, etc, - they can all be discussed at any time. Any time is a good time to discuss the Word of God.

Secondly, I am speaking of Acts chapter 2:4 (what is recorded in Acts - that Jesus spake before Acts 2:4), and the events that occured before the Apostle Peter preached and 3000 were converted.

Again, were Peter and those who had assemebled together - were they saved before the Day of Pentecost? Were they already believers before they spake with other tongues, or did they all get saved (and thus form the body of Christ) 5 hours, 5 minutes or even 5 seconds before they spake with tongues?


6 posted on 02/05/2013 7:08:35 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Salvation

Ash Wednesday, etc, - they can all be discussed at any time. Any time is a good time to discuss the Word of God.

Secondly, I am speaking of Acts chapter 2:4 (what is recorded in Acts - that Jesus spake before Acts 2:4), and the events that occured before the Apostle Peter preached and 3000 were converted.

Again, were Peter and those who had assemebled together - were they saved before the Day of Pentecost? Were they already believers before they spake with other tongues, or did they all get saved (and thus form the body of Christ) 5 hours, 5 minutes or even 5 seconds before they spake with tongues?


7 posted on 02/05/2013 7:10:24 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

And the people who listened to the apostles preach were from many countries. Each heard the apostles in their own language. The people converted on Pentecost were not the same as the apostles and a few other believers in the Upper Room when tongues of fire came to rest over them, and people assembled outside of the building because they heard a mighty wind — the Holy Spirit.

PS. Keeping topics timely helps everyone, but of course, anything can be posted at anytime.


8 posted on 02/05/2013 7:12:38 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; Charles Henrickson

The sins of mankind (thus, all were “saved”) were forgiven on Good Friday.

Jesus, Himself made the pronouncement: “It is finished.”


9 posted on 02/05/2013 7:15:23 AM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (*Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alteration: The acronym explains the science.)
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To: stuartcr; All

Yes.

Jesus said that they (the believers) would be endued with power from on high, and told them to tarry in Jerusalem to await the promise of the Father. They saw Jesus ascend on the Mount... After this, they went to Jerusalem and met regularly in the temple and praised God.

Obviously, they were believers that Jesus was the risen savior. Ergo they were believers (and thus saved). Ergo Sum, the body of Christ was already formed before the Day of Pentecost arrived. They Body of Christ therefore was not born on the Day of Pentecost. This is the inescapable conclusion...


10 posted on 02/05/2013 7:15:39 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

You are trying to put the Protestant idea of being saved into Pentecost.

The Apostles, as are all Catholics, were saved with the Baptism. Whether it was of water and the spirit, a Baptism of Desire like the good thief on the Cross or a Baptism of Blood like the martyrs.

We must account for our deeds each day. Once saved/always saved is not sound doctrine in the Catholic Church. We are all sinners — so once saved/always saved doesn’t work.


11 posted on 02/05/2013 7:16:04 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; All

Straw Man on your part.

I am not putting “the Protestant idea” into anything. /roll eyes. You are the one divisively separating this into Protestant/Catholic.

Pentecost did not save them. They were already saved before the Day of Pentecost. Speaking with tongues did not save them. Being baptized in water did not save them (a Church of Christ belief). Believing in Jesus saved them.

Romans 10:9-10 “If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and shall believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Period.


12 posted on 02/05/2013 7:21:41 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
First since the book of Acts was not divided into chapters at the time of writing chapter two should not be considered as separate in some way from chapter one but simply as a continuation of it.
At the beginning of what we call chapter one the baptism with spirit was promised to the believers and at the beginning of chapter two 120 believers received holy spirit as visibly evidenced by the “tongues of fire” and the ability to speak in the foreign languages of those from outside Jerusalem as were named.

After Peter's speech explaining what was happening “about three thousand souls were added”, became believers also.

So obviously the ability to speak in tongues was a gift to serve a practical purpose at the moment and not a requirement of salvation.

13 posted on 02/05/2013 7:28:14 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; Salvation

The Body of Christ is comprised of all believers Yahweh has taken to Himself over all of the history of mankind. Thus, Abraham will be there, Moses, David, etc. and none of them were gifted with the ability to speak in foreign tongues. That particular gift served the purpose of shocking the public audience, but has no intrinsic value in itself.

But, as expected, you are getting those time-travel Catholics claiming the Apostles were themselves “Catholics”. Such nonsense is beyond absurd, but typical of that anthropocentric religious cult. The Apostles were believing Jews who recognized Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah of Israel. Rome was (and still is) stuck in paganism.


14 posted on 02/05/2013 7:28:51 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel; All

Thus, the body of Christ was already formed before the Day of Pentecost, as those who assembled together on the Day of Pentecost were already believers that Jesus was the messiah and the risen and ascended savior and had accepted Him for salvation of their souls. Thus, the body of Christ was already born before the Day of Pentecost. The body of Christ was already formed...

And thus, their speaking with other tongues on the Day of Pentecost was a distinct act, subsequent to their salvation.

The formation of the Body of Christ, then, took place and had taken place before they spake with other tongues.

Thus Baptists are incorrect that the Body of Christ was formed or born on the Day of Pentecost.

The Body of Christ was already in existence before they spake with tongues and before the Day of Pentecost even.


15 posted on 02/05/2013 7:29:18 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

No strawman. I speak the truth.


16 posted on 02/05/2013 7:31:09 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

“Unless you eat my Body and drink my Blood you shall not have life everlasting.”

Gospel of John: Discourse on the Bread of Life.


17 posted on 02/05/2013 7:32:22 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

If you knew, why did you ask?


18 posted on 02/05/2013 7:38:31 AM PST by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: count-your-change; All

And so it would seem that we are in agreement that Baptists (and some others) are incorrect when they say that the body of Christ was formed or born on the Day of Pentecost.

The church, the body of Christ is made up of believers. We know that at least 120 were believers as at least that many saw Jesus ascend into heaven, had accepted Him as messiah, Lord and risen savior days before the Day of Pentecost.

Thus even before the assembled believers spake with tongues on the Day of Pentecost, and even before the 3000 were saved, the body of Christ was already formed, already born and already in existence.

Thus, what occured to the Apstles, disciples and those assembled together in Acts 2:4 (at least 120) was a subsequent, distinct act to their salvation.

They were not baptized into the body of Christ on the day of Pentecost. The Body of Christ wasn’t formed or born on the Day of Pentecost. They were already baptized into the body of Christ, were believers, were saved, and formed the body of Christ BEFORE Acts 2:4.


19 posted on 02/05/2013 7:39:14 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Salvation

Baptism is commanded by Christ, as a public show of your faith, a symbolic ‘death’ and ‘burial’ (immersion) and subsequent resurrection of the ‘New Creation’.

The thief on the cross was not baptized, yet Jesus said he would be with Him in paradise - THAT DAY.

I can show you scripture supporting the idea/doctrine that once you are saved/born again, you are Saved, final answer.

‘No man can pluck you from my hand’. No one, even your self.

‘Depart from me, you worker of iniquity. I never knew you.’ Notice the NEVER. Jesus didn’t say, ‘I knew you once, but you went away.’ Nor did He say “Depart, I didn’t know you long enough.’

‘That whosoever believes on Him shall have ETERNAL life.’

No one, not even Mother Theresa, can EARN Heaven on being good enough, Not Possible. We are saved by faith and THAT a gift from God, not of ourselves.

So, if we can do NOTHING to EARN it, what can we possibly do to KEEP it? It is a gift, and as far as I can tell God is no ‘Indian Giver’.

And for the argument that once saved-always saved opens the door to sinful living, that is false. Paul addressed that - Shall we sin so that Grace can abound? Heaven forbid!

A saved person, truly saved, will not willfully sin without the Holy Spirit ‘eating your lunch’.

Can you show me scripture showing that the gift of salvation can be lost?

Just my 2 cents


20 posted on 02/05/2013 7:51:50 AM PST by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

You do realize God is outside of time? God knows the beginning, middle and the end. He knows who will eventually end up being “saved.”

From the human perspective this happens at some “time” in our lives.

That’s not the divine perspective.

You are trying to reconcile the two. You can’t.


21 posted on 02/05/2013 7:56:27 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: Salvation
Once saved/always saved is not sound doctrine in the Catholic Church.

But it is Biblical truth.

We are all sinners — so once saved/always saved doesn’t work.

Completely invalid conclusion ...

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have (present active indicative) eternal life.

If you could loose eternal life ... it wouldnt be eternal.

22 posted on 02/05/2013 7:56:48 AM PST by dartuser ("If you are ... what you were ... then you're not.")
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

What was distinctive here at Pentecost was the baptism with holy spirit as promised earlier. Thus that body of 120 souls became a spirit begotten body, the body of Christ according to 1 Cor. 12:12-27.


23 posted on 02/05/2013 8:00:10 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

It’s ludicrous to speak of someone as being ‘saved’ before they’re dead. They haven’t undergone Judgement.

Unless you are currently in heaven please do not claim to be ‘saved’. Presumption is one of the two sins against Hope (the other one being Despair).


24 posted on 02/05/2013 8:00:56 AM PST by agere_contra (I once saw a movie where only the police and military had guns. It was called 'Schindler's List'.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

They were saved the moment Jesus died on the cross to pay for their sins because they believed He was the Son of God. They didn’t even have to wait for Him to defeat death and rise again. His blood covered all sin.

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.”

Speaking in Tongues was a gift of the Spirit not a requirement for salvation.


25 posted on 02/05/2013 8:05:14 AM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
The church, the body of Christ is made up of believers.

You must preface that remark ... the church, the body of Christ is made up of New Testament believers ... why?

Because THE distinguishing mark of a believer in Jesus Christ, verses an OT believer, is the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

It is the sealing of the Spirit ... the permanent indwelling in the Christians life. The OT saints did not have the permanent indwelling of the Spirit. When did that permanent indwelling begin? Pentecost. Therefore ... the church began at Pentecost because the permanent indwelling began at Pentecost.

26 posted on 02/05/2013 8:08:03 AM PST by dartuser ("If you are ... what you were ... then you're not.")
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To: SoothingDave

He also knows what our free-will choices are, right?


27 posted on 02/05/2013 8:08:03 AM PST by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr

With omniscience, there’s not a lot He doesn’t know. ;-)


28 posted on 02/05/2013 8:18:51 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Bump for later


29 posted on 02/05/2013 8:21:50 AM PST by showme_the_Glory (ILLEGAL: prohibited by law. ALIEN: Owing political allegiance to another country or government)
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To: SoothingDave

Just to mix things up today, do you believe God cannot be wrong in His omniscience?


30 posted on 02/05/2013 8:29:26 AM PST by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr

I think omniscience precludes error.


31 posted on 02/05/2013 8:36:56 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave

So if right now (wrt our sense of time) God knows you’re going to do something in the future, which of course you don’t know, does that mean you will do that something?


32 posted on 02/05/2013 8:41:14 AM PST by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr

Perhaps from God’s perspective, you have already done it even though from our perspective it hasn’t happened yet.


33 posted on 02/05/2013 8:53:08 AM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: stuartcr

Apparently, I will choose to do so.


34 posted on 02/05/2013 9:01:24 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Again, were they already saved before the Day of Pentecost?

Nope...Prior to Romans chapter 3, faith plus works was required for salvation...

It was given to Paul to reveal to the church that faith without works by grace was the only way for salvation for the church from that point on...

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

35 posted on 02/05/2013 9:02:14 AM PST by Iscool (I love animals...barbequed, fried, grilled, stewed,,,,)
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To: dangerdoc

Does God’s omniscience work even before we are born?


36 posted on 02/05/2013 9:08:56 AM PST by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: agere_contra
It’s ludicrous to speak of someone as being ‘saved’ before they’re dead. They haven’t undergone Judgement.

No...What's really ludicrous is people preaching bible truth when it's clear those people don't even know what God says in his bible...

We Christians have already gone thru Judgment...

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We have already been raised up with Jesus Christ; we have already been saved and we are seated, right now, with Jesus Christ in heavenly places...

I realize that probably makes no sense whatsoever to you but that is not my fault nor God's fault...He wrote it...If you don't get it, you can only look to yourself and possibly your false teachers...

Unless you are currently in heaven please do not claim to be ‘saved’. Presumption is one of the two sins against Hope (the other one being Despair).

As you were just shown, we Christians ARE currently in heaven...

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

We are sealed with the Holy Spirit...And no one can break the seal...And just like when you buy a house and put earnest money on it (that can not be refunded), the Holy Spirit 'in us' is God's earnest money...He paid the down payment...The sale is complete...When our bodies are redeemed, the Closing takes place...

37 posted on 02/05/2013 9:31:21 AM PST by Iscool (I love animals...barbequed, fried, grilled, stewed,,,,)
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To: Iscool
Nope...Prior to Romans chapter 3, faith plus works was required for salvation...

Did it change as he was writing the letter, or did it change for each congregation as they read the letter?

38 posted on 02/05/2013 9:35:04 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave

Do you think God’s omniscience works even before we are born?


39 posted on 02/05/2013 9:35:29 AM PST by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr

What do you mean by “God’s omniscience works”? Are you asking if my birth changed the status of God’s ability to know everything?

It did not.


40 posted on 02/05/2013 9:39:46 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave

No, I’m asking if God knows what we will do even before we are born.


41 posted on 02/05/2013 9:42:15 AM PST by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr

God is unchanging and omniscient. My birth doesn’t change anything. He knew, He knows, He will know. It’s all the same to Him.


42 posted on 02/05/2013 9:55:04 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave

I’m sure you know what I’ll ask next;

If God knows, before you are even born, that you will make an evil decision that results in your going to hell, why does He breath life into you?


43 posted on 02/05/2013 10:08:25 AM PST by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr

I can’t begin to even pretend that a man can understand God’s plan.

He does what He does.

It must serve his purposes somehow.


44 posted on 02/05/2013 10:22:33 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave

OK, thanks


45 posted on 02/05/2013 10:26:43 AM PST by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr

Can’t quote the scripture, but the Bible does talk about God knowing us before we were in the womb, interpret that as you may.


46 posted on 02/05/2013 10:43:18 AM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: dangerdoc

OK, thanks


47 posted on 02/05/2013 10:57:45 AM PST by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr; SoothingDave

My thought is this. God oversees somewhat of a timeline of existence (of everything). We are a tiny point on that timeline. He can see ahead of us and behind us. During that point in time, we decide what we choose to do during that time. God KNOWS what we are going to choose and do, but He does not CHOOSE for us.


48 posted on 02/05/2013 11:02:03 AM PST by justice14 ("Christ is Victorious" // twitter; @rjustice21)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Question #1: "Now, a question that I have asked more than one person is this: were those who spake with tongues saved (believers) before the Day of Pentecost or before the moment they spake with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance?"

Answer: God's word is clear, Jesus said they were already saved BEFORE the day of Pentecost and before they spoke with tongues:

5Then He poured* water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples’ feet and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded. 6So He came* to Simon Peter. He said* to Him, “Lord, do You wash my feet?” 7Jesus answered and said to him, “What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter.” 8Peter said* to Him, “Never shall You wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.” 9Simon Peter said* to Him, “Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head.” 10Jesus said* to him, “He who HAS BATHED needs only to wash his feet, but IS COMPLETELY CLEAN; AND YOU ARE CLEAN, BUT NOT ALL OF YOU.” 11For He knew THE ONE who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, “Not all of you are clean.” (John 13:5-10 NASB, Emphasis added)

6“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word." 11“I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, KEEP THEM IN YOUR NAME, THE NAME WHICH YOU HAVE GIVEN ME, that they may be one even as We are. 12“While I was with them, I WAS KEEPING THE in Your name which You have given Me; and I GUARDED THEM AND NOT ONE OF THEM PERISHED BUT THE SON OF PERDITION, SO THAT SCRIPTURE WOULD BE FULFILLED (John 17:6, 11-12 NASB, Emphasis added)

Question #2: "If these believers were already saved before they spake with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance, then this means that one does not have to speak in tongues in order to go to heaven.

Answer: According to Jesus' statements above, your premise is true.. The Apostle Paul also makes it quite clear that speaking in tongues is not a prerequisite or required for salvation because he says that not all believers speak in tongues:

29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? ALL DO NOT SPEAK WITH TONGUES, DO THEY (*Note: The construction in the N.T. Greek requires a negative answer to Paul's question = NO, they do not ALL speak with tongues. This is also the case with all of the rest of the questions he asks in verses 29-30)? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31But earnestly desire the greater gifts. (1 Corinthians 12:29-30 NASB, Emphasis added)

IF speaking in tongues were an integral part of the salvation process and the Gospel of Jesus Christ the Apostle Paul would NEVER have been able to make the above statement because ALL believers would of necessity had to speak in tongues IF speaking in tongues were necessary in order to be saved and get to heaven. It is clear from the above statements and the fact that speaking in tongues in nowhere presented as a part of the Gospel message (cf. John 3:16; Acts 16:31) as a requirement in order to be saved

Question #3: this means that their speaking in tongues was a separate, subsequent, distinct act from them becoming part of the body of Christ, as they were already saved - believers

Answer: Yes, they were saved BEFORE they spoke in tongues and this act of speaking in tongues on the day of Pentecost was a separate, distinct and subsequent, and distinct act to their salvation, However you are incorrect in stating that these believers were ALREADY a part of the 'body of Christ' BEFORE the day of Pentecost."

The term: "body of Christ" is a clear reference to the church of Jesus Christ. Since the church of Jesus Christ was not formed, did not begin, nor was it established UNTIL the day of Pentecost, your conclusions above and below are incorrect: Your statements and conclusions are incorrect: "(and thus A PART OF and THE FORMERS OF THE BODY) - BEFORE the Day of Pentecost, and before they spake with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance." (Emphasis Added)

The church, the "body of Christ" did not exist, was not created UNTIL the day of Pentecost so your conclusions above and below are incorrect.

"this means that the body of Christ (made up of believers) was already formed before the Day of Pentecost. "

Wrong, because while these disciples were already saved because they had previously believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation, they were not yet a part of the body of Christ because it did not exist yet/until the day of Pentecost.

Final Question: "Again, were they already saved before the Day of Pentecost? It seems to boil down to that question..."

As previously shown from Scripture, the answer to your question is "YES", they were already saved BEFORE the Day of Pentecost, BUT they were not yet a part of the body of Christ because the church is not established until the Day of Pentecost when, for the first time the Holy Spirit permanently, bodily indwells all who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ from that day forward, uniting them in the newly created "body of Christ" and acting as the permanent seal of their salvation and down-payment of their inheritance:

13In Him, you also, AFTER LISTENING TO THE MESSAGE OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION—HAVING A L S O BELIEVED, YOU WERE SEALED I N H I M WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE, 14who is given as A PLEDGE of OUR INHERITANCE, with a view to the REDEMPTION OF GOD'S OWN POSSESSION, to the praise of His glory. ( Ephesians 1:13-14 NASB Emphasis Added)

49 posted on 02/05/2013 11:02:22 AM PST by Jmouse007 (Lord deliver us from evil, in Jesus name, amen.)
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To: justice14

Do you believe God has a plan for each of us?


50 posted on 02/05/2013 11:11:33 AM PST by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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