Little man; you are to remain SILENT! in my presence.
Posted on 01/27/2013 12:31:22 PM PST by marshmallow
I think you are WRONG in your assertion here.
You've FORGOTTEN already?
Has LUTHER been 'forgiven' by your wonderful and glorious CHURCH?
Little man; you are to remain SILENT! in my presence.
It knows NOT this verse??
1 Timothy 5:14
So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander.
(unless your name is MARY and you've given carried the SAVIOR of the world around for 9 months.)
I agree; they should not be announcing this. I would imagine they’ve already received a “talking to” in this regard.
...still waiting for you to back up your truth claim terycarl.
That statement is completely 100% false unless you can provide documentation of the parties involved repenting and asking forgiveness for what they did from God.
Sure, they have been forgiven by the "Church" and Catholics like you.
But that is only for the person forgiving, it does NOT grant them forgiveness from God.
So show the proof or again be caught posting false information.
When I posted the word savior spelled saviour, which is a correct way to spell it, you said it was an error and that I should "be ashamed!!!!."
Yes I forgave you for that in my heart.
Of course the shame never got to me, it was blocked by the Blood of Jesus which protects EVERY born again Christian from the hate that is thrown at them.
But are you forgiven by God?
Only if you repent and ask Him.
Otherwise you carry that sin of "accusation of the brethren" around in your soul. (Of the brethern of course only if you are a born again Christian with a personal relationship with God throught Jesus.)
Let's take an example of one of the horrible sins embedded in Popes to see if he has been forgiven by God.
This one: Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.
The only way he could be forgiven by God is if, when he heard the gunshot and before the bullet hit him and killed him, he repented and asked God for His forgiveness.
I highly think that is what happened, as he was obviously in the midst of enjoying ill-gotten sexual pleasures and did not even know the husband of the woman he was committing adultery with was in the room about to shoot him.
Likewise he would have had to, in that split second, asked for forgiveness for the murders he committed, as well as the lessor sins of giving property to his mistress.
Documentation please, if you wish your words to have ANY credibility at all.
Including these words of yours on this thread:
The Catholic church teaches it, the Catholic church is infallible, therefore I believe it.You there stated that the "Catholic church is infallible," not their teachings, but The Catholic Church
That would make all the actions of the Bad Popes infallible, therefore making all their crimes Godly actions.
*Sigh*, such is Catholicism.
Yup....
OK, terycarl, I'm set up to watch and wait for your presentation......
Of course. The popcorn is just the carrier for the butter and salt.
EXCElllennnntttt!
“Christians from the beginning of the Church have had Scriptural Truth”
I just have to respectfully disagree. The Gospel of Luke, for instance, was not written until about 63, more than 30 years after Jesus’ Death. The Bible was still being composed for decades after Jesus’ Death. The Book of Revelation was probably composed from 100 to 120, moving close to 100 years after Jesus’ Death. These Christians heard Scriptural Truths but they obeyed the Church obedient to Rome. In the days of 3 hour sermons lacking air conditioning, I think you overestimate how much Scriptural Truth the flock retained. They, many of them uneducated, didn’t look only to their limited knowledge of Scripture they heard for truth, but they looked to the Church. Why would they obey those teaching Scriptural Truth, if those teaching it had no authority?
2/3 of the Holy Scriptures were already written - the very same that Christ fulfilled. The Church was born into a world God had already prepared.
“I think you overestimate how much Scriptural Truth the flock retained.”
This is your opinion-you are entitled to hold it. It could be equally argued that aural tradition/teaching societies retain more. I have see this reported on before we had the Internet.
God set Teachers in His Church as a gift of the Spirit. They have always been there and are today. They don’t, however teach what they invent. They teach the Scriptures.
“how else would Catholics agree to things ... (like) torturing and killing merely theological dissidents, if it were not because Rome has usurped the supernaturally established Scriptures as the supreme authority?”
Who decided which Scriptures were supernatural? Rome through a Council guided by the Holy Spirit. There were 300 or 400 books floating around. It was the Church guided by the Holy Spirit who threw out 300 or so books as merely human, though many of them were good as lesser spiritual reading. Rome decided upon the 72 books.(It’s not a coincidence that Jesus sent out 72 disciples.) How did Rome usurp that which She, guided by the Holy Spirit, decided upon in the first place? Also, the torturing and killing was a two way street. Catholics believe that the Pope is infallible when teaching on faith and morals. There are other decisions the Popes have made which the Church does not claim are infallible.
“And when did Rome provide an infallible, indisputable canon of Scripture?”
At a council where guided by the Holy Spirit, the Bishops and Cardinals whose authority can be traced directly to the Apostles agreed upon these books. You wouldn’t even have a Bible to read if not for this Council. Peter was the Prince of the Apostles. His name is always listed first in any list of the Apostles because he is the Rock, the Pope. Why did John wait at the entrance of the tomb for Peter to go in when he beat him there? Because Peter was and is the chief Shepherd. If they were equals, John would have just went in, but he didn’t. When Christians had a major divisive dispute around the year 100, they didn’t ask the final living Apostle John to settle the dispute. They didn’t search the Scriptures to settle the dispute. They appealed to Pope Clement in Rome and he ruled on and settled the dispute.
“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it (Matthew 16).” Jesus founded one visible Church. Not 40,000 and counting. So-called spiritual unity is not enough. There must be a visible, recognizable Final authority.
“Do you really think organizational structure and paper unity (and unity in error), and which requires implicit assent of faith is superior in quality to the unity of the Spirit resulting from a shared conversion and relationship with the Lord Jesus?”
Where is this “shared unity” as Christians keep dividing themselves more and more? Without a Final Authority, even Christians are on the road to relativism. The relativism of I’ll decide what I like and what I don’t like. I’m sorry you think unity is so unimportant. We now have tons of Christians who defend incredible moral evils based on the idea that they and not Peter established by Jesus are the Final Authority. I’m tired of running into Christians who say in-vitro fertlization is okay because the words do not appear in the Bible. Those words do not appear in the Bible but the Pope teaches the principles from the Bible whereby in-vitro fertilization is condemned. Revelation 9:21 says the end time society will not repent of their “magic potions”. The Popes have taught from early on that these “magic potions” are early forms of contraceptives and abortifacients. But now most Catholics and Christians use abortifacient-contraceptives because they say I’m the final authority on what’s right and wrong and not the Pope. But they’re ignorant and may pay with their immortal souls. In my opinion the deification of one’s own opinion as the final authority has set the ground for the relativism destroying society.
if you decide, in court for example, that the defendant is not telling the truth, it is up to you to prove that he/she is not doing so. "I didn't commit the crime because I was with my girlfriend and she will testify to that...."
I will, however give some possibilities as to the truth of infallability.
Didn't Jesus say something along the line of "if you bind it on earth, it will be bound in heaven and if you loose it on earth it will be loosed in heaven?"
do you think that He would give the church the authority to DETERMINE what the truth was, and then be stuck with His promise to make it so in heaven....I don't think so. He also PROMISED to guide the church until the end of time.....close enough for me!!
“2/3 of the Holy Scriptures were already written”
Exactly. The Bible wasn’t complete. And so they looked to the Church for guidance.
“They teach the Scriptures.”
They, and many if not most of the priests in the Catholic Church, usually don’t teach that birth control is wrong. But it is condemned as the sin of Onan in the Old Testament, and it is the “magic potions” referred to in Revelation 9:21.
“They don’t, however teach what they invent.”
They do in my opinion. They have pulled out the scandal of widespread divorce among Christians as scriptural, when it isn’t there. They say Jesus permitted divorce in cases of “adultery”. This is incorrect. Jesus was talking about marriages which were not valid in the first place because they were taking place among close blood relatives and therefore weren’t permissible. Jesus was using a very narrow term which has been blown up into divorce for almost any reason. And what about the Christians who say divorce is permissible when there has been no adultery? Isn’t this what basically happened with Amy Grant? Many walked away from Jesus because they clearly understood that he wasn’t talking spiritually when He gave the teaching on the Holy Eucharist, but was talking literally. Why do so many fundamentalists suddenly say Jesus was only talking spiritually when that doesn’t make common sense? Why would so many disciples walk away if he were only talking spiritually? The only 6:66 in the New Testament is John 6:66 where many of the disciples walked away because of the teaching of Jesus on the Holy Eucharist. Will many Christians walk away from Jesus during the time of 666, the time of Anti-Christ, because they don’t find the strength to persevere without the Holy Eucharist? This teaching was assented to by virtually all Christians until after Martin Luther. Martin Luther himself accepted it. The Holy Eucharist as only symbolic is a very recent invention within Christendom. The Rapture was largely unheard of among Christians until a Scottish minister made it popular a couple of centuries ago. I admit some of the Church fathers disagreed on this teaching, but their influence on the teaching wasn’t widespread. Rome has always taught against it.
I'll say a prayer for you...remember that our church, like all others, is made up of sinners. Remember that Jesus said "forgive them for they know not what they do"...so forgive them and get on with life....don't let the actions of other people determine what is important in YOUR life...only you are responsible for what you do, and don't get to the gates of Heaven and try to convince St Peter that it was someone elses fault....won't fly!!
two come to mind at once...The Immaculate Conception" which states that Mary was concieved without original sin, and the "assumption" which states that Mary was bodily assumed into Heaven by the power of God. (didn't ascend on her own)
no they don't....they do say that once it was written, they COPIED it by hand and were solely responsible for preserving and protecting it and making it available to YOU....say thanks!
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