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To: vladimir998

Well from the Copts perspective, the Latins are the heretics. The Latin church may be bigger, but the Copts are older, and there are some things about the Eastern I like much better than the Western church, from the Protestant perspective.


12 posted on 01/18/2013 9:45:23 PM PST by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! [You can vote Democrat when you're dead]...)
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To: Free Vulcan

You wrote:

“Well from the Copts perspective, the Latins are the heretics.”

Copts have no authority to judge the Church as heretical. The very idea is absurd.

“The Latin church may be bigger, but the Copts are older, and there are some things about the Eastern I like much better than the Western church, from the Protestant perspective.”

The Coptic Church is not older - it dates back to the 5th or 6th century at most. What a Protestant likes or dislikes is inconsequential in regard to truth. Truth is truth. It has nothing to do with being likable or dislikable.


13 posted on 01/18/2013 10:10:34 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: Free Vulcan
The split goes back to 451, the Council of Chalcedon, which the Copts and other so-called Monophysites refused to accept. The Greek Orthodox Church and the Latins were on the same side in this dispute. From that time until the Muslim conquest of Egypt and Syria, trying to reconcile the two sides was one of the main obsessions of the Byzantine Emperors but nothing worked.

Christianity spread to all of these areas in the first 20 or 30 years and the Greeks, Latins, and Copts had mostly been on the same side in the earlier doctrinal controversies so it doesn't make sense to say that one church is older than another.

15 posted on 01/19/2013 10:19:53 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: Free Vulcan; vladimir998
The Latin church may be bigger, but the Copts are older, and there are some things about the Eastern I like much better than the Western church, from the Protestant perspective.

A few years ago, I purchased this book to read during Lent. Normally, reading is tedious for me but I could not put this book down and recommended it to one of our well known freepers, Kolokotronis. He loved it so much that he began recommending it to his Orthodox friends. I did the same with my Catholic friends. The book is a veritable gem and a MUST READ!

DESCRIPTION: - Written as a journal, Journey Back to Eden recounts Mark Gruber's year of spiritual discovery among the austere desert monasteries of Egypt. His journey began almost accidentally as part of his doctoral research, but it became more, much more. His account - entertaining, poignant, and spiritually challenging - takes us back to the times of St. Anthony and the ancient Desert Fathers.

MOST HELPFUL CUSTOMER REVIEW
Father Gruber's journal of his year with the Copts cannot be called a travelogue of the trials and tribulations of a young American student in Egypt. Throughout his day-to-day activities and frustrations lies a deeper insight into the people of a world in which all things are influenced by the spiritual. In the early days of his journey, for example, he tells of building a sand castle on a beach. Father Gruber is accosted by some young Muslim boys who accuse him of spreading Christianity in Egypt, mistaking his sand castle for a church. Egypt is truly a place of discovery, Gruber says, " ... seeing the character of these people and how deeply their religious concerns and issues preoccupy them and how they tend to interpret everything they experience through the prism of their faith. In seconds, the boys kicked down the towers of my castles and ran away ... triumphant or afraid?"

He also learns with some amazement of the Copts' respect for monks and priests, and he marvels at finding himself standing in churches using a handcross on lines of pilgrims who approach for blessings. On another occasion, he is baffled by an encounter with two Muslim brothers who, thinking there is a bad spirit in their house after their father's death, ask Father Gruber to bless the house. When he expresses his puzzlement, they respond that this is perfectly acceptable, and he should not fear any problems would persist. He is told not to interpret this as a secret vote of confidence from the Moslems. A friend tells him Moslems rationalize that the Muslim sheik is dealing with God directly and "if you want to resolve a problem with evil spirits, you need someone whose religion is of a lesser sort."

While the book can easily be read as a journal from beginning to end, its daily entries lend themselves to being read individually as spiritual and cultural reflections on an ancient people who can offer insights to modern Western man. Father Gruber's conversations with the monks lead to his understanding of the sense of humility and charity of the desert monks. His travels to 12 Coptic monasteries in the Egyptian desert describe monastic lifestyles steeped in silence, prayer and an austere existence devoid of any modern conveniences. At the same time, the monasteries, defined in many ways by climate and geography, are built on a deep sense of community. How is it that in a world of every modern convenience, where geography and climate play little role in movement and lifestyle, most Westerners remain isolated? As Father Gruber prepared to leave Egypt, he realized how intensely he was affected by the Copts of Egypt. Thus, this is essentially a book about a deeply spiritual pilgrimage and the profound impact it had on one man's life. The afterword strikes a note of longing to remain in Egypt tempered with a desire to return to America. "I shall only manage to return to the world from which I came if I consider myself a bearer of the desert harvest.... My eyes will be turning backward, even as I had once looked forward to a future horizon before I came here."


Personally, being Roman Catholic and practicing my faith in an Eastern Catholic Church, I was drawn into the deep spirituality of the Coptic monks and intrigued by Fr. Gruber's reactions. I truly treasure this small book and those with whom I have shared it, have felt the same way. They now "gift" it to friends and relatives. You can read through portions of the book on the AMAZON.COM web site.

16 posted on 01/19/2013 2:42:52 PM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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