Posted on 09/14/2012 6:04:54 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Caca
Nice try but no cigar.
The willardites have an infinite ability to rationalize. The facts are plain. Willard embraces abortion. He has done so as recently as two weeks ago. I would love to compromise for a marginal candidate. But willard doesn’t even rise to that standard. And innocent lives aren’t mine to bargain with in the first place.
What sort of LEGITIMATE government forces citizens to go against their conscience?
It is odd to come to a site where the site founder and many other stripes of conservative have posted at one time or another that it would be a cold day in hell before they pull the lever for Romney, and then post some blarney to single Catholics out. Called Goebbels for work?
In this election, it is impossible to sit it out. If you do, you vote for Obama. I’m not Romney’s greatest fan, but Obama is an Anti-Christ. This should be a no brainier for a person of faith, Christian or Jew. And I think everyone knows this. One ‘holdout’ makes the news... Typical lib hype.
... matter of basic Christian obedience to clear apostolic teaching re giving aid and comfort to antichrist missionaries and has nothing to do with weighing relative political evils. While I agree that abstention is not good practice in general, for some of us, in this cycle, there appears to be no alternative compatible with the exercise of Christian faith.
So Catholics are contemplating "sitting it out"? They'd rather have a muslim in the oval office? I suppose a burka is similar to a nun's habit, so they won't mind when 0bama demands that Sharia law be enforced.
I believe many Catholics "sat it out" once before and our friend Adolph became Fuhrer for life.
instead we should be focussed on the Catholics, Presbyterians, Mormons, Baptists, Evangelicals, Methodists, Lutherans, Jews, Anglicans etc. who vote conservative and those who can be brought from the dim side.
From now on, I refuse even to post responses to Catholic freepers who encourage people to sit this election out. I hold them in lower contempt than I hold “Catholic” Obama supporters, who are at least honest frauds.
Vote for the AMERICAN (Romney).
Get rid of the un-American non-American America-hater terrorist-loving 0bummer.
Anyone with brains can see this. But then ...
What temperature is it in your world, Puddleglum?
It is odd to...post some blarney to single Catholics out.
Would you like FR to censor articles, so that every Catholic reference smells like roses?
Called Goebbels for work?
When did your desk come up for grabs?
Thumbs up!
You would THINK that, by now, people would understand that there is a GREAT difference between “Catholics in-name-only” and PRACTICING Catholics!!!
Catholics who practice their Faith will be overwhelmingly voting for Romney against the most PRO-ABORT, ANTI-RELIGIOUS LIBERTY inhabitant of the White House in our history.
Speaking as a Catholic, I have nothing but contempt for any Catholic who quibbles that Romney/Ryan is inadequately conservative, but fails to denounce Democrat-voting Catholics in the strongest possible terms.
___
Sadly, God disagrees.
"Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it."
- Isaiah 28:14-20
The lesser of two evils is still evil. God's word is crystal clear.
The willardites have an infinite ability to rationalize. The facts are plain. Willard embraces abortion. He has done so as recently as two weeks ago. I would love to compromise for a marginal candidate. . . . . .
___________________________________________________________
When I was about to be born, my father took me and my mother to a good Catholic hospital. My mother was very ill and I was coming VERY early. I was unlikely to survive outside the womb in those days early births didn't end well.
A priest at the hospital explained how grave the situation was for both my mother and me. He also explained that if there was a choice that had to be made of either saving my mother or me it would be me. He didn't want to take a chance of my being born dead and not having a chance to be baptized. While it was a kind policy my father would have none of it. My father scooped my mother up into his arms and carried her to his car and went to another hospital where he made them understand that whatever happened they would save his wife first and me second.
We both survived well although I lived in an incubator for a couple of months.
What has all this to do with anything? Mitt Romney says he believes that abortions are OK in certain circumstances. One is to save the life of the mother, so he believes like my father and as I too am inclined to believe. The next two categories are not so simple. Mitt Romney also believes that the option of abortion should also be allowed in rape and incest. He says the OPTION should be allowed. Interestingly as a bishop and stake president in the LDS church he had to council young women in both situations. He ALWAYS counciled the girls to carry the baby and give it up for adoption.
Should a rape victim be forced to carry the baby of the rapist? I'm not sure I have made up my mind on this issue. I would like Mitt Romney council one of my daughters to carry the baby and then give it up for adoption. Pregnancy is difficult and for some dangerous. I'm still not sure how to resolve this but, victims should not be punished. I would hope that we get to a place in this country where abortion never occurs except in extremely rare cases where the life of the mother can not be saved in any other way. But Romney is not pro abortion like Obama is pro abortion.
I am not ratioalizing. History is history. Romney has history on this subject. Obama has history on this subject. Obams is much worse.
Abortion is not the only subject on the platter of ideals on the ballot this election. It is big but not alone. If the USA as we know it is destroyed then your thoughts and mine on abortion won't make any difference. Obama would destroy this country, he may still. If you stay at home and don't vote for Romney then you will be complicit in it's destruction.
Goodness like evil is won in increments. At least with Mitt Romney we are going in the right direction. You will never get enough votes in this country to elect Jesus Christ or any of His Apostles, they would seem to conservative to the masses. We can only do a little at a time.
I would rather go slowly in the right direction than continue down the path we are on at breakneck speed.
I am not a Mitt Romney supporter, just a pragmatist.
I think a deeper analysis is in order.
To start with, Catholics need to recognize that America still represents a new paradigm to Earthly government, and that the church will be most satisfied by embracing this paradigm instead of trying to hold onto a old, failed order.
That is, in European history, the church adapted to the feudal concept, that there is an elite, hereditary nobility that rules over a much larger peasantry. Unfortunately, the nobility, to assure its power, adopted a philosophy:
“The hereditary nobility is the nobility because they are predetermined by heaven to be nobles; just as the peasants were predetermined to be peasants. And since the nobility is sanctioned by heaven, their laws are *also* sanctioned by heaven. So if you disagree with their laws, you are opposing heaven as well.”
And thus many kingdoms prefaced their laws by stating that the king was anointed by God, so everyone else has to do what he says. (In her youth, even Queen Elizabeth was approached to use the magical “healing power of kings” on sick people. She declined.)
However, by the 17th Century, the idea of the heavenly investiture had fallen out of fashion, so there arose a need for a new kind of legitimacy for government. This was found in republican-democracy, and it solved the problem.
In American terms, the idea that the legitimacy of government is derived by the people, not heaven, so that the laws of man are not sacred, and can be changed.
Importantly, this does not disrespect heaven, in fact it does the opposite, by permitting that while people might be inspired by heaven, our laws are not written in heaven, so may be changed without *offending* heaven, as long as they conform to important religious doctrines.
For this reason, while this is not the dictionary definition, Americans distinguish between “ethics”, which they see as obeying the laws of men, and “morality”, which they see as obeying the laws of heaven. In the latter case, morality based on a person’s religion.
This matters a lot, because religions and sects vary tremendously in what they consider “moral” acts to be; so voters tend to be dubious of politicians who embrace “morality”, because someone like Nancy Pelosi can claim to be “moral”, in agreement with her beliefs in the church of Baal-Moloch.
“Ethics”, on the other hand, is easier for voters to figure out, because it is up to a grand jury to decide if a politician is ethical or not. And if they are not, it is not left up to heaven to punish them, either.
In any event, the Catholic church in many ways is still hung up with the idea of embracing the Catholic nobility, which in the US are absolute scum, like the Kennedy family.
Those “real” Catholics in power, who are ethical, are careful not to create the impression that they are beholden to the church, or will grant the church special favors, but only that they will behave in a “moral” manner, to the teachings of the church.
This clearly works more to the advantage of the church, as far as its important doctrines are concerned, as these good Catholics will be strongly opposed to things like abortion and euthanasia.
However, it also moderates what the church wants when some in the church decide to embrace foolish ideas, like “liberation theology” or socialism.
So in the final analysis, in future the church should embrace good Catholics, who as men want to write the laws of other men; as opposed to “social Catholics”, who cling to wealth and power by virtue of heredity and assumed elitism, despising the important values of the church, yet parading their Catholicism like harlots on street corners.
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