Posted on 08/16/2012 7:46:17 PM PDT by RnMomof7
"Well, it's taken 2,000 years but it looks like have finally found someone without sin who is qualified to cast the first stone."
I'll keep my stones. Care to comment on why the special sacramental grace had no effect?
More proof that OSAS is hogwash and that Grace requires cooperation.
Since you deny that even the Blessed Virgin was preserved free from would you care to explain why you expect that a mere parish priest would be?
Peace be with you
You ignored the question.
Which denomination has “a lot more sexual abuse”?
If that was a fake Priest, then that should be reported to the media. There is no reason that one denomination, (Catholics), should be smeared because of Priests faking that they are serving under the Catholic Pope.
Other folks can and do refrain from such behavior w/o any sacramental grace whatsoever. They do so by virtue of their own free will.
"Since you deny that even the Blessed Virgin was preserved free from would you care to explain why you expect that a mere parish priest would be?"
Preserved free from what?
As Dirty Harry might say:
Harry Callahan: Well, when an adult male is chasing a boy with intent to commit rape, I shoot the bastard. That’s my policy.
The Mayor: Intent? How did you establish that?
Harry Callahan: When a naked man is chasing a boy through a neighborhood with a speedo and a hard-on, I figure he isn’t out collecting for the Red Cross!
[walks out of the room]
The Mayor: He’s got a point.
He's not masquerading as the parish priest, he is the parish priest. Here's the Church...
Caption: "St. Luke Catholic Church in Woodburn, where the Rev. Angel Armando Perez is the parish priest."
Note the school in the background. That's probably the rectory to the right, where the priest/perp lives.
2) Somehow, I don't think that this is quite what Christ had in mind when he said, "Let the little children come unto me."
NO Cheers, unfortunately.
I don’t get the “1” thing.
There can be corrupt institutions, but 1 doesn’t mean squat.
There may be a problem in the Catholic church, or not, but “1”, or five, or 20 humans that are criminals or deviants in an organization of many thousands, is unavoidable.
In 2010,
seven credible cases of abuse were reported in a church that numbers over 65 million adherents.
~ ~ ~
Wow, notice the date of the message. It is a homosexual scandal not pedophile. Homosexuals have many perversions. The scandal doesn’t make every priest a predator or homosexual. Thanks for the numbers Salvation.
Who knows the means by which the greatest graces from God are received? He believes...Satan.
Should we discuss the approval of sodomy by both Presidential candidates? Absolutely blinded...crazy times.
~~ ~~ ~~
To Mother Marianna
January 21, 1610
“The Sacrament of Holy Orders will be ridiculed, oppressed, and despised… The Devil will try to persecute the ministers of the Lord in every possible way; he will labor with cruel and subtle astuteness to deviate them from the spirit of their vocation and will corrupt many of them. These depraved priests, who will scandalize the Christian people, will make the hatred of bad Catholics and the enemies of the Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church fall upon ALL priests”…
Maybe 15 years ago, but that ain't happening now.
I'm glad he's 'caught', so he can't fool around with any more boys.
I had a molester in my parish. I knew he was a homo the second I met him. So did every man I knew in my church.
He was gone in three months.
The parish IS responsible.
The parents are responsible.
The bishop is responsible.
People have to step up and stop this crap. It has ruined the American Church.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.
“And what about all the sex abuse that goes on in Protestant churches?”
Team Sandusky makes the first score!
When have I ever been dismissive. I have only state it is not a “priestly” problem but a “gay” problem and that the BSA were right to keep their policy on banning homosexuals. That in no way dismisses the problem but says it is a problem no matter where it happens and who commits the crime.
Oh and I was the one who suggested that it was too bad somebody did not have a gun when the priest ran up to them in his underwear while they were comforting his victim. Yet I dismiss abuse?
The problem is that certain people are focused only on sexual abuse that happens in the Catholic Church and imply that it is a “Catholic” problem. This is more dismissive of abuse then any of us writing that abuse is evil no matter where it happens and we point out rightly that percentage wise other institutions have a much bigger problem with predators among their ranks. Oh and some of those places are actually teaching our children that sexual immorality is a good thing.
They are grooming our children to be future victims by telling them homosexual behavior is not wrong and should even be celebrated.
It is without question that the priest has fallen and committed a grave sin. He is in need of our prayers and forgiveness, but the Church did not commit the sin.
Are you saying you are free from sin or only that your sins are less than those of the fallen priest? Is any sin, save blasphemy, worse than any other sin in God's eyes? Are you prepared to confess your sins to us here?
"If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us." - 1 John 1:10
"Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.” - Mark 3:28-29
Peace be with you
"the Church did not commit the sin.
I never said it did. The topic is sacramental grace, which appears to have no effect.
"Are you saying you are free from sin or only that your sins are less than those of the fallen priest?"
No. This is completely irrelevant. The topic is sacramental grace, which can be seen to have absolutely no effect, because it is indistinguishable from nothing and violates the concept of free will.
"Is any sin, save blasphemy, worse than any other sin in God's eyes?"
What is blasphemy and how does it apply in this case?
""Since you deny that even the Blessed Virgin was preserved free from would you care to explain why you expect that a mere parish priest would be?"
I asked before what it was that she was preserved from, because it was left out of the claim. It's original sin of course, which is no more than an ad hominum applied by those that chose to believe Augustine over Ezekiel 18. This priest chose to do what other folks reject and refuse outright by virtue of their own uncoerced free will.
In the parable about the wheat and the weeds, Jesus didn't seem to view the work of the Enemy as spoiling the whole crop. He also had a few things to say about judging others, didn't he?
When I worked in health care, I frequently had occasion to work with sex abuse victims (perps too sometimes). In my opinion, sexual exploitation of children (and adults too, by the way) is a societal problem, not a problem specific to any institution. At the moment, I can't think of any segment of society that's immune to the problem. Catholic bashing may help some folks feel superior, but it doesn't do much to make our society a safer place for kids.
That is, unless Jesus allowed one of the 12 disciples to frolic naked with little boys just because "there's always going to be one".......except he didn't allow that.
What did Jesus allow? He let one of his inner circle betray him. Although you may not agree with our perception, a lot of us Catholics view this type of priest as a Judas, not as an indictment on the Church or its heirarchy. That doesn't make us enablers of abuse.
Whether you want to admit it or not, it is the Church's problem and until there is no abuse it will continue being the whole church's problem.
Here I agree with you, although perhaps not with the meaning you intended. The Catholic Church and all people of faith and morals should be leading the way. Every time a clergy (of any faith) or a person who is expected to adhere to higher standards offends, it's an especially painful black eye. Not just on the institution the offender represents, but on society as a whole. And of course, the victim. The Church has been rightly criticized for its errors in protecting children and for enabling abusing clergy. In response, the Church has developed programs to protect minors and train staff/volunteers to watch for warning signs that potential abuse is a possibility. But it's not enough. The Church needs to be humble about its past, remain vigilant at present, and be forceful in its advocacy for children in our current society, which is a very dangerous place for kids.
We've become a culture that doesn't appreciate, respect, or defend our children. We have laws that permit their killing before birth. We have social movements pushing to permit legal killing after birth. We are no longer shocked when we read about a parent horrifically abusing or killing a child or step child. We're no longer surprised to hear about abuse happening at a school. Or just about any place you can imagine. Heck, even our government now claims the right to sterilize a minor without parental consent, a move that further enables certain types of offenders.
If you ask me, we should ALL be more vigilant and active. It's easy to look down our nose at whatever group has the latest perp in the news cycle. What's more difficult is to take specific action to change the culture that emboldens predation of our kids and encourages adults to objectify children and accord them less than full human dignity.
Stop and think about the messages our culture broadcasts every day. Children have become commodities that everyone's entitled to (think homosexual advocates). Kids are encouraged to become sexually active at ages even younger than the victim in this story (think Planned Parenthood). And they're encouraged to look outside the family for answers and advice on matters of sex. Just look at some of the hypersexualized messages being sent pictorially on some back-to-school ads.
IMHO, it isn't just the Church, but all of us should be trying to repair our culture, not just reclaim our institutions from those who would mistreat children. It's easy to cast stones, isn't it? It's harder to fight Planned Parenthood's infiltration into our schools, kids' groups (Girl Scouts), etc. Harder to take a stand against some of the filth being promoted in our schools. Harder to insist on decent TV programming for kids (and adults).
What am I willing to do to make this culture a better/safer/more decent place for kids? That's the question that will ultimately help reduce abuse of children. IMHO throwing stones only obscures the real issues.
Better you examined your notion and experience of grace.
Couple that with an honest assessment of your failure to always walk with the Lord
and I’m sure you would find the answer you seek.
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