[Craftmore]

ok,why?

[ansel12]

A lot of us look forward to this discussion, I hope it brings a lot of high quality posts.

Many of us would like to learn about this history and relationship.

[TigerClaws]

They weren’t chosen by God to accept Jesus. They relied on circumcision of the flesh. Christians are the true sons of Abraham. By faith are ye saved.

[Mortrey]

I am interested in this, as well.

I had always heard that the Jews ached for a savior; they got one, but he was a teacher and very humble.
They wanted a fighter; a warrior on a white horse to extinguish their enemies.
Patience will bring them the savior they wanted very soon-and the One we want, as well.

[krb]

How recently has it been that Evangelical Christians took up the cause of modern day Israel being a land for Jewish people? I have some acquaintances who claim that it’s actually a modern phenomenon, and not something that goes back more than 25 years or so. I found that hard to believe, as I thought evangelicals had always thought that way.

[hosepipe]

Answer; Because... not all Jews are Jews....

Just the same as not all christians are christians
nor catholics, catholics.. or Baptists, Baptists..

Not all muslims are muslims either..
Heck today not all women are women nor men, men...

[varmintman]

Israel had been a great nation. The idea of forgetting about this world or relegating earthly concerns to secondary importance and simply accepting Roman dominion was alien to them.

[Moose Burger]

There may be thousands of reasons, but I often refer to one: Egypt. Kings of Egypt were supposed to be half-man half-divinity walking deities. Jews weren’t having none of that, not again, not after “that incident”.

[Kevmo]

Interesting. I just posted this on an overheated political thread.

Ryan is a good man, but does not redeem the abortionist/homosexualist statist Romney

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2917406/posts?page=2223#2223

Sunday, August 12, 2012 7:59:19 PM · 2,223 of 2,390
Kevmo to sf4dubya
You got it half right. Jews believe he was a false messiah because he didn’t meet the requirements. We take the “no man shall come before me” stuff pretty seriously. When a Jew says he is the son of G-d, we kinda get puzzled because we believe we ALL are G-d’s children.
***He didn’t just claim to be the son of God, he claimed equality with God. He was God Himself. Even his enemies acknowledge the claim, and they put him to death for it. If he was NOT God Himself then he deserved his death sentence according to his crime of blasphemy. Ethelbert Stauffer points out that there were others in history who claimed to be Messiah and were not put to death.

And all of our stuff was sort of “canonized” before then, so he is not mentioned in our holy books. (Sounds like a familiar argument some use here against Mormonism.)
***And in your Canon there is Genesis 49:12, which states that the Messiah would come before Judah lost its own sovereignty (which happened when the Romans took over Jerusalem). If you want to watch a jew backtrack real fast on his own scriptures, see what he does with that one.

We don’t believe in hell or any of that either.
***News to me. I’ve met several jews who acknowledge hell. I see you’re starting to sidetrack into issues that the original poster did not even question.

Life is the most precious gift; enjoy it now instead of worrying about the hereafter.
***Now you’re contorting Judaism into what you want it to be. Your own scriptures do not support your viewpoint. But that’s a problem between you and God.

G-d doesn’t punish His children for all of eternity.
***You’re right, He punishes those who choose not to be His children. But even then, it’s probably not God doing such choosing, it is probably going to be those people loudly proclaiming that they want nothing to do with God for eternity.

No souls to save or any of that in the Reform/Conservative movements — we think of Christians as lost sheep that will return to the flock anyway.
***Whatever, it appears that most of your post immediately sidetracked into issues that the original poster didn’t even ask about.

Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2141 | View Replies

---

To: nicmarlo
What is the consensus of Who Jesus is, generally, among Jews. Do they consider Him a prophet,
***From the many jews that I have discussed this with, the consensus is that Jesus was a “great man”, a lot like what most Americans believe. Some even consider him a prophet, but when confronted with his prophecies they relent and go back to the ‘great man’ hypothesis. Most jews do not want to stir up a religious hornet’s nest. They have heard there are some issues with this Jesus character and they don’t want trouble. The VERY LAST thing they will entertain is that Jesus was the Messiah.

or is He looked at as Someone heretical?
***Not until they are confronted with the historical fact that Jesus claimed to be God Himself. At that point, every jew I have spoken with has doubted the historicity of the claim, even though the enemies of Christ acknowledged (and used) it at the time of His death.

(I am sincere in the question. I can only go by my understanding of how He was looked at by the Jewish leaders in His day, according to New Testament Scriptures, and many did not approve of Him.)
*** When confronted with the historical FACT that Jesus claimed equality with God, jews today will fold into their own belief system, just like modern gentiles. In Jesus’s time, he was looked at as a prophet who was widely discredited due to his claim of equality with God, therefore being put to death for blasphemy.

Recommended reading
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Ghost-Christian-university-curriculum/dp/0310357616/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344820180&sr=1-2&keywords=jesus+god+ghost+or+guru

2,103 posted on Sunday, August 12, 2012 6:12:22 PM by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It’s A Socon Site.)
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[TigerClaws]

Answers the objections that Jesus violated the law:

http://www.tektonics.org/gk/jesusignorelaw.html

[TigerClaws]

List of messianic prophecies and if Jesus fulfilled them:

http://judiasm.kodingen.com/14.html

Of course, early Christians were all Jews and Saul/Paul was the most notable of converts.

[SkyDancer]

We were looking for a conquering Messiah to rid Israel of the Roman oppression. There were Jews that accepted Yashua. Peter, Paul and the rest of the disciples. Paul came along later but there were groups of Jews who believed. Read Acts. Remember it was Jewish women who spread the word that Yashua had risen. Then later, Dorcas, who held the first services in her home - sang some psalms then read letters that Paul wrote. There were many Jews who accepted Yashua. But as a whole, the people didn't, just small groups.

I classify myself as a Messianic Jew.

[zencycler]

Here's my question:

Don't some hassidic views believe that their rabbi is the messiah? And while most other Jews would disagree with them, they are not "rejected" in the sense that they are still considered Jews. So why shouldn't the same apply to Christians?

I actually had a long debate over this issue with a mohel because I was planning a bris and a baptism for my son - on the same day (yes, an interfaith marriage). I suggested that the early Christians considered themselves Jews (who just happened to believe that their rabbi was the messiah), that historical events had somehow created an artificial divide between the two religions, and that his act of participating in this event could be a first step toward re-affirming Christianity as a sect of Judaism.

I must say that, in the true spirit of rabbinical debate, he indulged me by spending quite some time on the phone debating this. Ultimately, he declined, and we went on with our interfaith ceremony by using a (non-Jew) Navy doctor for the bris and had a family member perform the other Mohel duties.

[Revolting cat!]

Is this a trick question?

[GOP Poet]

Bookmark

[GeorgianRepublican]

Perhaps this is one reason why. From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

On the Jews and Their Lies (German: Von den Jüden und jren Lügen; in modern spelling Von den Juden und ihren Lügen) is a 65,000-word antisemitic treatise written in 1543 by the German Reformation leader Martin Luther.
In the treatise, Luther describes Jews as a “base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth.”[1] Luther wrote that they are “full of the devil’s feces ... which they wallow in like swine,”[2] and the synagogue is an “incorrigible whore and an evil slut”.[3]
In the first ten sections of the treatise, Luther expounds, at considerable length, upon his views concerning Jews and Judaism and how these compare against Christians and Christianity. Following this exposition, Section XI of the treatise advises Christians to carry out seven remedial actions. These are
for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
for their religious writings to be taken away;
for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and “put aside for safekeeping”; and
for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave labor.[4]

[TaraP]

The Scripture reveals your question:

Romans 11:25

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

In addition today- Many Jews do believe Jesus Christ to be the Messiah of Israel...

Most of what is written in the Gospels about the Last Days the end of the Age has now come to fruition..

Even the Famous Rabbi Kaduri revealed the name of Jesus as Messiah.
Rabbi Kaduri reveals name of Moshiach before death..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xCUnDuycPQ

[pallis]

When you consider that Christianity began in Israel, and that the first evangelism was to synagogs in other countries, it seems that some Jews believed Jesus to be their Messiah. I’m married to one who does. There are actually quite a few Jews who believe Jesus is their Messiah. It would be interesting to compare the percentage of Jews who believe in Christ to the percentage of other racial and ethnic groups who believe in Christ. Maybe from a percentage standpoint, there is nothing exceptional about the Jews who reject Christ.

[blasater1960]

“Why do the Jews reject Jesus?”

It is simple, really.

A) He didnt perform any of the messianic tasks that would be exhaustive and conclusive to him. Example: Rebuilding the Temple, World Peace, Restoration of the Priesthood, Restoring the Jewish people to Torah Worship, Universal Knowledge of G-d, Restoring the lost tribes, Restoration of sacrifices.

B) Not one verse in all of Tanakh (OT) does it say the Law will end and be replaced by a “law of christ”

C) Not one verse in all of Tanakh does it say that messiah will fulfill the law on our behalf (thus ending the law)

D) Not one verse in all of Tanakh does it say that Human Sacrifice or Human vicarious atonement is acceptable to G-d, on the contrary, G-d says he hates it and it is an abomination to him, something that never entered His mind.

E) Not one verse in all of Tanakh does it say that G-d will come in the flesh as a human being. On the contrary, G-d says twice, in Deut 4, that the Jews at Sinai, saw no form, only a voice, so dont give Him a form.

F) The Christian versions of the Tanakh, the LXX (Jews only translated the first 5 books) and modern translations do not accurately render the Hebrew Masoretic texts. Example: Ps 22, does not say “pierced his hands and feet” Ka’ari, in the hebrew means, “like a Lion” they surround my hands and feet (same language as other parts of 22) Likewise Is 53 has many errors, Is 7:14, does not say “virgin”.

G) The book of Hebrews incorrectly states that “Only” through the shedding of blood, is there forgiveness. That is an incorrect rendering of Lev 17:11. Lev 17 is specifically stating that blood is not a food source, dont eat it. (also acts 15) bloods sole function other than keeping animals alive, is to be a sacrificial tool. It does not say that ONLY through blood is atonement. Lev 5:11 makes it clear that even flour atones. Also, prayer, repentance, charity, fasting also atone.

So there is a small sample....there is much, much more.

[mnehring]

bookmark for later reading