Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Deseret News Exclusive: ABC '20/20' special on 'Heaven' will include Mormon perspective [Surprises?]
Deseret News ^ | July 3, 2012 | Jeff Benedict

Posted on 07/04/2012 1:09:48 PM PDT by Colofornian

Mitt Romney's presidential bid has generated unprecedented interest in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, prompting the media to dub this the "Mormon moment."

This week, the church will open up on network television's biggest stage about the subject of heaven.

The church dispatched Elder William R. Walker, a general authority who oversees the temple department, to New York City for a historic sit-down interview with Barbara Walters near the Manhattan Temple last month. The interview will be part of a two-hour special titled "Heaven: Where is it? How do we get there?" that will air on ABC stations throughout the country Friday night at 8 p.m. MDT.

The "Heaven" special originally aired back in December 2005 and featured interviews with religious leaders from virtually all of the leading world religions. But the LDS Church was not among those featured.

With nine out of 10 Americans claiming to believe in heaven, the show was one of the most-watched programs in the history of network television.

"We felt the program was so good and so strong we wanted to rerun it," Walters said. "And with Gov. Romney running for president, we felt it was very important to include the Mormon point of view this time."

Elder Walker definitely delivered the Mormon point of view in a wide-ranging exchange with Walters that covered everything from what goes on in Mormon temples to the practice of baptizing for the dead to the concept of eternal marriage. The interview was groundbreaking and showcases the Mormon faith to millions of Americans through a mainstream television program. It also marks the first time that Walters has interviewed a Mormon about Mormonism.

(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Other non-Christian; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: abc; heaven; lds; mormon
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-30 next last
From the article: Mitt Romney's presidential bid has generated unprecedented interest in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, prompting the media to dub this the "Mormon moment." This week, the church will open up on network television's biggest stage about the subject of heaven...The interview will be part of a two-hour special titled "Heaven: Where is it? How do we get there?" that will air on ABC stations throughout the country Friday night at 8 p.m. MDT. The "Heaven" special originally aired back in December 2005 and featured interviews with religious leaders from virtually all of the leading world religions. But the LDS Church was not among those featured. With nine out of 10 Americans claiming to believe in heaven, the show was one of the most-watched programs in the history of network television. "We felt the program was so good and so strong we wanted to rerun it," Walters said. "And with Gov. Romney running for president, we felt it was very important to include the Mormon point of view this time."
1 posted on 07/04/2012 1:09:58 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

who cares? I don’t.


2 posted on 07/04/2012 1:10:57 PM PDT by Perdogg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Perdogg

Why didn’t media care about Harry Reid being a Mormon? Oh, because he is a Dem?


3 posted on 07/04/2012 1:13:42 PM PDT by shalom aleichem
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Up

By Jesus

No other way, no other One.

And it IS that simple.

4 posted on 07/04/2012 1:13:46 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

this is just objective journalism at work. Don’t you remember when they ran specials on Jeremiah Wright’s perspectives?


5 posted on 07/04/2012 1:15:12 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (A Dalmation was spotted wagging its tail.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All
From the article: Elder Walker definitely delivered the Mormon point of view in a wide-ranging exchange with Walters that covered everything from what goes on in Mormon temples to the practice of baptizing for the dead to the concept of eternal marriage. The interview was groundbreaking and showcases the Mormon faith to millions of Americans through a mainstream television program. It also marks the first time that Walters has interviewed a Mormon about Mormonism.

Sounds to me like "Elder Walker" soft-pedaled "baptism of the dead"...But Mormon "heaven" theology involves a LOT more intricacies than that!!!!

And, unfortunately, while Barbara Walters may be well-known for her interviewing skills, frankly when it comes to bizarre religions -- she and her ABC journalistic research team simply lacks competence.

Therefore, there won't be much -- if ANYTHING -- "surprising" in what you might see on the ABC show this week.

Therefore, I have brought to you...

THE TOP TEN MOST SURPRISING 'MORMON TEACHINGS' ABOUT MORMON HEAVEN and AFTER-LIFE (Most of which Barbara Walters would have flunked in covering for this week's special)!!!

RANK

SURPRISING MORMON AFTERLIFE BELIEF

EXPLANATION/SOURCE

10. Upon death, ALL -- Mormon and non-Mormon alike -- enter a godless intermediate place called the "spirit world." This Mormon "spirit world" is "the place of residence for all those who have died and are awaiting the resurrection and the inseparable connection of their spirits and bodies. Thus, it is not the place where God the Father, the resurrected Lord, and other resurrected beings dwell. Rather, it is an intermediate condition or state where people await the resurrection—a sphere where disembodied spirits live in one of several conditions according to what their mortal lives have merited." (Source: The Spirit World, Our Next Home -- official magazine of the Mormon church, published December of 1977 by Dale C. Mouritsen) Also: Note that where you live -- ghetto-wise in this "spirit world" -- depends upon mere merit. (See also #4 below for more on "merit" status)
9. This Mormon 'spirit world' is actually tied to this earth, where Mormon "missionaries" earthlings die and then become Mormon "spirit missionaries" on the other side of death The Mormon spirit world is "on this earth." Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson declared that “the spirit world is not far away. Sometimes the veil between this life and the life beyond becomes very thin." (Source: The Spirit World, Our Next Home -- official magazine of the Mormon church, published December of 1977 by Dale C. Mouritsen). This Mormon "spirit world" is no place of rest as the Bible describes heaven. Yup, for Mormons "...the spirit world is the place where disembodied spirits go. It is a tangible, substantial sphere incorporated with our earth, the focal point of a massive missionary effort in which we share." (Source: The Spirit World, Our Next Home -- official magazine of the Mormon church, published December of 1977 by Dale C. Mouritsen). Thus, Lds get to continue to earn their way to heaven by trying to bump up others along the way -- becoming "saviors" in the process! See #8 for more on this!
8. And where does Baptism of the dead intersect with the alleged activity of disembodied Mormon "spirit missionaries?" Those spirit missionaries are going to those in temporary spirit prison to tell them they've been proxy baptized, which, in turn fulfills the very purpose of EVERY Mormon coming to planet earth from the planet Kolob. And what was that purpose, per Lds third "prophet" John Taylor -- as repeated in an official LDS church book published in 2001? 'Twas simple: "We came here to be saviors. 'What, saviors?' 'Yes.' 'Why, we thought there was only one Savior.' 'Oh, yes, there a great many.'" Source of Taylor quote: Deseret News, Feb. 11, 1873, as quoted in 2001 in the official Lds church book, Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor, p. 187 (For similar such quotes that regard Mormons as competing "saviors" to Jesus Christ, see: Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others?)
7. Mormon leaders tell us hell's going to be cancelled like some bad Fall TV program. Hence, Mormon baptism of the dead then becomes a sort of 'get out of hell' card (into a low-degree of heaven) -- like Monopoly's 'Get out of jail card.' The wicked go to "spirit prison," which is not eternal hell. Mormon leaders tell us hell's going to "...hell...is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel and have the opportunity to repent and accept ordinances for them that are performed." (Official Lds publication, True to the Faith, 2004, p. 81) Boy is that getting out of hell free or what? Or how about Doctrine & Covenants 19:16-18, which says that hell/outer darkness is for the few? Yet they are still "saved": "After suffering in full for their sins they will be allowed to inherit the lowest degree of glory which is the telestial kingdom. The hell in the spirit world will not continue forever." (Official Lds publication, Gospel Principles, p. 280)
6. The Book of Mormon is actually closer to the Bible on describing the eternality of hell than current Mormon teachings!!! * Helaman 6:28 and Moroni 8:13 in the Book of Mormon describe hell as being "everlasting" and "endless." * Mormon leaders, why does Mosiah 2:38-39 in the Book of Mormon say hell is a never-ending torment? An unquenchable fire? * Why does the Mormon book within the Book of Mormon describe a condition as a “misery that NEVER dies”??? (Mormon 8:38) * Why does Alma 42:16 in the Book of Mormon say that eternal punishment is as eternal as the life of the soul? [Since the life of the soul is NOT temporary, what implications does that leave?] * Why does Alma 34:32-35 in the Book of Mormon say there's no second chance: For behold THIS LIFE is the time for men to prepare to meet God...do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life...then cometh the night of darkness wherein THERE CAN BE NO LABOR PERFORMED. Ye CANNOT say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will reprent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye CANNOT say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. (I cited parts of vv. 32-34) [Please see also Alma 12:24 that says that "life is a time to prepare for eternal state after resurrection" -- not the after life!!!] * Why does both Mosiah 16:11 & 1 Nephi 15:35 in the Book of Mormon say there's only TWO destinations post-death (not a third called "spirit prison"). And the BoM knows only heaven & hell -- no temporary spirit prison (Mormn 9:23; Ether 4:18; Hel. 14:18-19; Alma 3:26; Alma 40:26; 2 Nephi 2:28-29; 2 Nephi 9:16; Alma 41:4; 3 Nephi 27:11,17; 2 Nephi 28:21-22). * Very early in Joseph Smith's theology, Joseph did an "about face" on the eternality of hell and tried to claim that hell was described as "eternal" because God was eternal; that hell was described as "everlasting" because God was everlasting. IOW, he tried to change it to an adjective description of God -- of the type of punishment. But we have other verses in the Book of Mormon -- like Helaman 7:16 -- where it just doesn't "work" as an adjective: "Yea, how could you have given way to the enticing of him who is seeking to hurl away your souls down to everlasting misery and endless wo." Is "wo" just a "type" of wo because of who issued it? Sorry...'tis quite plain -- and you can't play with words...Anybody speaking plain English would interpret the above as "without end." Don’t you get the feeling that Mormon leader propaganda has the effect that even their BoM verses are subject to scissors – being cut out – if it doesn’t fit with what their leaders say?
5. "Eternal life" is redefined to be an exclusive term that applies to temple Mormons ONLY! "Eternal life" is thus reserved for legalistically abiding Mormons ONLY. "Eternal life" does NOT = ALL living forever with Heavenly Father; 'tis ONLY applies for those who EARN exaltation...and "exaltation" is a Mormon by-word for becoming a god!Hence, to the Mormon, resurrection alone does not = eternal life. Yes, Mormons believe that just about all people become immortal due to the resurrection. But "eternal life" is ONLY for those who live in the presence of Heavenly Father -- and become "gods" themselves (what Mormons call "exaltation"...To Mormons, "exaltation" and "eternal life" are interchangeable terms...but "eternal life" and heaven-as-a-residence for non-Mormons are not interchangeable terms..."eternal life" is ONLY for Mormons! * Eternal life is a term which always means ‘exaltation,’ when used in the Scriptures (John 3:15; Romans 6:23; 1 John 1:2; 2 Nephi 2:28; D&C 5:22; 18:8; 131:5; 138:51; Moses 1:39).” (David R. Ridges, Mormon Beliefs and Doctrines Made Easier, p. 88) Sub-title: “WHAT IS EXALTATION? Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life that God lives.” (Older 1970s version, p. 289) * ”Exaltation is a synonym for eternal life. Exaltation comes only to those who inherit the highest degree within the celestial kingdom…it consists in the continuation of the family unit throughout eternity; it is the type of life that is lived by our Heavenly Father.” (Daniel H. Ludlow, A Companion to Your Study of the Doctrines and Covenants, 2:85) * Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge, and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.” (Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 302) * “Eternal life…In fact…means exaltation. He who receives the greatest portion of eternal life becomes a God.” (Milton R. Hunter, an LDS Seventy, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 11) * Exaltation means godhood, creatorship. ‘As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 53) * “Exaltation is the greatest of all the gifts and attainments possible. It is available only in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom and is reserved for members of the Church of the Firstborn. This exalted status, called eternal life, is available to be received by a man and a wife. It means not only living in God’s presence, but receiving power to do as God does, including the power to bear children after the resurrection.” (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:479 Quote for resurrection alone not = 'eternal life': * “…resurrection alone does not qualify us for eternal life in the presence of God…we need His grace to purify and perfect us ‘after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23).” (Truth to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, Intellectual Reserve, 2004, p. 77)
4. Trusting in Jesus Christ and relating to Jesus Christ for the Mormon thereby only amounts to what your life MERITS. Yup. You're ONLY a cosmic Boy Scout! The final quote in the previous row was: “…resurrection alone does not qualify us for eternal life in the presence of God…we need His grace to purify and perfect us ‘after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23).” (Truth to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, Intellectual Reserve, 2004, p. 77) Hence -- for MORMONS -- heaven isn't a gift...it's based upon "all you can do" and merits: * Each of us has been sent to earth by our Heavenly Father to merit eternal life (Lds apostle Robert D. Hales, “Personal Revelation: The Teachings and Examples of the Prophets,” Ensign (Conference Edition), Nov. 1985, p. 20) * “…immortality is to live forever in the resurrected state, and by the grace of God all men will gain this unending continuance of life. But ONLY THOSE who obey the fullness of the gospel law will inherit eternal life. (D&C 29:43-44)…it is the kind, status, type, and quality of life that God himself enjoys. Thus those who gain eternal life receive exaltation; they are sons of God, joint-heirs with Christ…they overcome all things, have all power, and receive the fullness of the Father. THEY ARE GODS.” McConkie, p. 237, 1979 ed. [My note: Of course, McConkie cites D&C 29:43-44…but these verses say no such thing…v. 43 actually says that ”immortality unto eternal life” is given to ”as many as would BELIEVE”…’shifty’ McConkie…trying to pull a rabbit when no hat exists] * “The…gift of eternal life…is conditional. In order to qualify, one must deny oneself of ungodliness and honor the ordinance and covenants of the temple.” (Lds apostle Russell M. Nelson, “Divine Love,” Ensign, Feb. 2003, p. 24 * "Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on MERIT -- through the faithful performance of duty - ONLY those who are WORTHY shall receive it." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:5) These citations are outright heresy taught by heretics! If you don't believe Mormons teach you have to "work" for eternal life vs. Jesus giving it to us NOW in a relationship with Him that starts now, then may I suggest you first read John 17:3 -- and then compare to these above citations from Lds leaders! For another thread on this topic, please see: what qualifies people to live with heavenly father for all eternity? (MormonISM - open)
3. If you qualify for Mormon full grown-up godhood status, you will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. Yup...temple Lds believe they will have the SAME creative power their god, who was once a man, had; and that they will receive prayers as well as worship, glory, adoration, etc. Both the 2009 Lds Gospel Principles book -- see Exaltation (The Plan for Our Progression)-Mormon (OPEN)...and one who reaches out to Lds, Pastor Mark Cares, see “As man is God once was; as God is, man may become.” [Infamous couplet highlights Lds polytheism] ...highlight these five supposed "blessings" that temple Mormons ALONE are to receive: a. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76:62). (My note: And this is for TEMPLE Mormons only...which, right now, is only 15-20% of all Mormons!) b. They will become gods (see D&C 132:20–23). (My note: See McConkie quote above as well) c. They will be united eternally with their righteous family members and will be able to have eternal increase. (My note: "Elder Walker" does discuss this on Barbara Walters' upcoming special...as Lds think this is some sort of trump card of their 'gospel' that's attractive) d. They will receive a fulness of joy. e. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20).” (Yup...temple Lds believe they will have the SAME creative power their god, who was once a man, had; will receive prayers; worship, glory, adoration, etc.)
2. You -- if you're a tithing married Mormon in good standing ONLY with the Mormon church -- get to not only be a 'god' -- but a god of your own world!!!!! (This, of course, includes eternal physical sex with either your wife or wives in order to propagate that world with 'spirit children') Some Mormons deny that Lds teach that you "get your own world as a god." For the scoop, see Mormon Professors Confuse Doctrine and Rumor (especially note post #5 of that thread) Here is a sample quotation from a Mormon "prophet": “To become like him we must have ALL the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an EARTH LIKE THIS ONE WE ARE ON and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and HAVE JURISDICTION OVER WORLDS, AND THESE WORLDS WILL BE PEOPLED BY OUR OWN OFFSPRING. WE WILL HAVE AN ENDLESS ETERNITY FOR THIS." Source: Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:48, as cited by The Mormon Church’s annual Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1978-79, p. 131
1. Mormon theology about heaven says it's a place -- at least for the 99% of people who would live there -- where Christians don't get to live with Heavenly Father forever!!!!! When Mormons talk about eternal life & exaltation, they're not just talking about "heaven" What's the "rest of the story"? * Mormons believe that only their “Melchizedek priests” (D&C 76:57) are the ones eligible for “dwell[ing] in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.” (D&C 76:62) In the Mormon view of heaven, ONLY those entering into Mormon "covenants" and obeying fully Mormon laws get to live forever in God's presence: * Eternal life is living with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ in the celestial kingdom. This blessing--which is also called exaltation--comes only to those who keep the commandments and make the necessary covenants (Source: Preparing for Exaltation Teacher's Manual, p. 4, 1998) * ”Immortality is to live forever as a resurrected being. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will receive this gift. Eternal life, or exaltation, is to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, where we will live in God’s presence and continue as families.” (same source, p. 52) * “’Eternal life’ is a higher state than immortality alone and means to live forever in a resurrected condition in the presence of God, and to become like God…Eternal life is exaltation into the type and quality of life that God lives. Receiving eternal life is conditional, predicated upon obedience to the fullness of gospel law and ordinances (D&C 29:43-44; 130:20-21). It requires voluntary obedience to all of the ordinances and principles of the gospel…continuing through…the covenants of the Endowment and marriage in the temple…” (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:677-678)

6 posted on 07/04/2012 1:20:35 PM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All
In my previous (chart) post, I listed the #1 MOST SURPRISING 'MORMON TEACHINGS' ABOUT MORMON HEAVEN and AFTER-LIFE as being this:

Mormon theology about heaven says it's a place -- at least for the 99% of people who would live there -- where Christians don't get to live with Heavenly Father forever!!!!!

Hence, the "Mormon" view of heaven -- at least for the 99% of people who would live there -- means a Heavenly Fatherless "heaven."

Along these lines, here's a sample dialogue -- which you can utilize with a Mormon co-worker, relative, or acquaintance, to yield some clarification -- especially if they accuse you of "condemning them to hell":

JOE MORMON: "Why do you condemn me to hell?"

N. CHRISTIAN: "You believe in three degrees of glory, do you not?"

JOE MORMON: "You know I do."

N. CHRISTIAN: "And don't you therefore believe, that Jesus can reside in two of these three glories?"

JOE MORMON: "You know I do."

N. CHRISTIAN: "And how many of these glories does Heavenly Father reside in?"

JOE MORMON: "One. The celestial one."

N. CHRISTIAN: "Do Christians get to reside there?"

JOE MORMON. "No. Only members of the church of the Firstborn do."

N. CHRISTIAN: "And Christian churches. Do Mormon leaders regard them as part of the 'church of the firstborn?'"

JOE MORMON: "Uh, no. 'Fraid not. But, you'll still be saved. Just a different degree of glory."

N. CHRISTIAN: "And so you're telling me that 'salvation' in your eyes includes NEVER being reconciled to Heavenly Father? NEVER, EVER able to live in His Presence again = 'salvation'...equals 'heaven' to you??? REALLY???"

JOE MORMON (now looking for a place to hide, in a stumble-mumble): "Uh...Uh...Uh..."

N. CHRISTIAN: "Let me go 'on the record' here to make myself 'perfectly clear': Whatever you regard as part of the afterlife that excludes the Presence of Heavenly Father, you can take that Mormon ghettoized false-gospel of yours and you can shove it to hell where it belongs! If you consider a Heavenly Fatherless 'heaven' to be 'heaven,' I don't want it! If you consider a Heavenly Fatherless 'heaven' to be FUTURE ETERNAL 'salvation,' then that ain't it!"

N. CHRISTIAN (continuing): "You, Joe Mormon! You of all people! One who believes that EACH of us was spirit-born to Heavenly Father in the pre-existence. And who desires for us to be reconciled to Him. You, who puts such emphasis on the divine family! You actually deem it to be a 'family reunion' when the 'family reunion' excludes the ULTIMATE PATRIARCH of the Family! Wow! How offensive can your false gospel get???!!! After all, what's a 'Christian' who won't live with Heavenly Father eternally?" (See John 17:3)

7 posted on 07/04/2012 1:28:13 PM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: shalom aleichem

Why didn’t media care about Harry Reid being a Mormon? Oh, because he is a Dem?


Yeah, i was thinking the same thing, why is the media ( the Children of hell ) by their own doctrine wondering about heaven.

Harry reed being a Mormon probably don,t count in the eyes of the media because he is that unimportant.


8 posted on 07/04/2012 1:34:37 PM PDT by ravenwolf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

I remember that exclusive 20/20 ran on Obama’s church. Oh, wait...that never happened.


9 posted on 07/04/2012 1:38:10 PM PDT by The Iceman Cometh (Proud Teabagging Barbarian Terrorist Hobbit Son-of-a-Bitch!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
I advised way last Fall to be expecting this kind of attention from the whorehouse media this summer and Fall. I imagine this will be the opening chapter in a continuing campaign of hate against the Mormon Church.

In coming weeks we will be treated to the liberal view of Mormon marriage, temple secrets, history of racism, what ever other exotic minutiae they can exploit to make idiots think "Those Mormons--they're strange--not like us."

It will be instructive however to watch the liberal media, the bastions of "tolerance," play the politics of divisiveness and hate, and to use their own favorite drugstore paperback terminology, "fear of the other."

10 posted on 07/04/2012 1:40:48 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

What would ABC know about heaven? 99% of these religious shows are HIT PIECES. I never watch them anymore. I won’t be watching this one.


11 posted on 07/04/2012 1:40:48 PM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Oh good grief the THX 1138 march continues.


12 posted on 07/04/2012 1:46:10 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

I know next to nothing about Mormon’s or their religion but I do know Baba and ABC News - there is no way this will turn out well or, in Mitt’s favor.


13 posted on 07/04/2012 1:56:12 PM PDT by capydick (''Life's tough.......it's even tougher if you're stupid.'')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: capydick; All
I know next to nothing about Mormon’s or their religion but I do know Baba and ABC News - there is no way this will turn out well or, in Mitt’s favor.

Well, let's see. Barbara Walter's parents were refugees from the former Russian empire. And Mormons have baptized by proxy the ancestor of Jewish Holocaust victims and other European Jews.

What could go wrong when a Mormon rep talks about baptizing those (and other) who are deceased?

Since it was taped last month, I would have hoped that Barbara Walters could have somehow worked in the following analogy:

So if you were a Jewish mortician who got a network of worldwide morticians to circumcize dead people...to make them supposed afterlife Jews...why, they think they are doing a "good thing"...would they not? And who would know? (Therefore, in the book of those who claim "no-harm-no-foul" re: necro-baptism, what harm would they be doing?)

***************************

Discussing the "harm" of Mormons baptizing the dead:

Millions of Mormon man-hours -- Genealogy -- is rooted in baptizing dead people. Now, genealogy for "roots-searching" is fine, but when "genealogy as ultra time consuming religious obsession" takes over, wouldn't you say it might be good to consider what the apostle Paul has to say about this?

Or do some just want to ignore the New Testament?

...stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer nor to devote themselves to myths AND ENDLESS GENEALOGIES. THESE PROMOTE CONTROVERSIES RATHER THAN GOD'S WORK—which is by faith." (1 Timothy 1:3-4)

But AVOID FOOLISH CONTROVERSIES AND GENEALOGIES...because these are unprofitable and useless. (Titus 3:9)

(Paul says it's useless, provokes controversy, and is not faith-promoting. So even the controversy ignited by protagonist Mormons is distracting)

As for the question, "Does this 'hurt' anyone?" yes it does -- in two prominent ways...

(a) It hurts the living because over-focusing on the dead distracts what we can do in relating to & in caring for the living!.

We can all agree that Jesus talked much about serving the living -- the poor, the widow, the orphan, the lost sheep, right?

So what would happen in the world if all religions obsessed with the dead as much as Mormons do? Obviously, we're not going to "end poverty in our lifetime" (Jesus said, "the poor will always be with you")...but since countless LDS leaders have called the Mormon people self-saviors and saviors of the dead, it's not only a distraction from the poor but delusional.

(b) Since countless LDS leaders have called the Mormon people self-saviors and saviors of the dead, it's not only a distraction from the poor but delusional.

We already have a "Savior of the world" -- we don't need millions more trying to bump Jesus out of that limelight:
* And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14)
* They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is THE Savior of the world." (John 4:42)

Last time I looked in the Bible, Christians were supposed to object to idolatry in their culture. And if you don't think that Mormons make baptizers of the dead "saviors" who rival Jesus Christ, you haven't read their leaders' comments on baptism of the dead. For those citations, see: Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others? (The OTHER World Series: Vanity)

If you're a Christian or Jew and you conclude "this doesn't harm anyone," you're catering to idolatry -- substitute "saviors" pretending to act in his name.

14 posted on 07/04/2012 2:18:49 PM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
ABC '20/20' special on 'Heaven' will include Mormon perspective [Surprises?]

Why wait??

(Only about 15% of WORTHY Mormons will EVER get to the HIGHEST level of 'their' heaven, as they have NO TR card!)

15 posted on 07/04/2012 2:36:05 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Why wait??


HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):


16 posted on 07/04/2012 2:37:54 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian


 

Temple Recommend Questions



1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

17 posted on 07/04/2012 2:39:11 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
He will be a god, he will rule over a planet with his wives and spirit children.


The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 


 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.


18 posted on 07/04/2012 2:40:12 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: capydick
I know next to nothing about Mormon’s or their religion...

Then hang on tightly; as the facts will be coming fast and furious!!!

19 posted on 07/04/2012 2:43:25 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Since countless LDS leaders have called the Mormon people self-saviors and saviors of the dead, it's not only a distraction from the poor but delusional.


 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."
 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321
 
 
"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."
- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88
 
 
"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"
- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
 
 
There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
 
 
"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."
 - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
 
 
 
"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"
 - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670
 


They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Who has made this so?
Have I?
Have this people?
Have the world?
No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
Can you pass without his inspection?
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
 Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

20 posted on 07/04/2012 2:44:39 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-30 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson