Posted on 04/08/2012 12:32:29 PM PDT by FoxPro
So that means you have an answer for what shepherds were doing outside in the fields at night, with their flocks of sheep, at the end of December, in winter?
I’m not sure that there would be any strict prohibition against the priests asking Pilate to do something for them on the Sabbath. In fact, that might explain why they could not do it, themselves. On the other hand, neither would I be shocked if their behavior did violate the Sabbath; certainly, their demand to release an insurrectionist over an innocent already demonstrated that their religiosity was phoniness.
>> So that means you have an answer for what shepherds were doing outside in the fields at night, with their flocks of sheep, at the end of December, in winter? <<
I do. It’s called the Roman Warm Period.
>> So that means you have an answer for what shepherds were doing outside in the fields at night, with their flocks of sheep, at the end of December, in winter? <<
I do. It’s called the Roman Warm Period.
Look, the date of Christmas was inferred, but on a pretty decent basis, not the pagan In Sol Invictus, created centuries after Christmas to superecede it, and not Saturnalia, which simply wasn’t related and not at the same time.
The Book of Maccabees stated that God dwelt in his Temple again after the Feast of the Dedication, which was on the 25th of the month closest to December (albeit admittedly, tending to be a few days early.) Jesus identified himself with the Temple, so selecting the Feast of the Dedication to celebrate his birthday seems sound.
Also, however, there was an ancient tradition that great prophets were conceived into the afterlife on the day they were conceived into the world. Thus, since Jesus died on March 25th, according to tradition, that day is celebrated as the Feast of the Annunciation, celebrating his conception. Doubtlessly, then, the ancients counted forward nine months to December 25th.
Neither of these prove a birthdate of December 25th; they merely demonstrate that it was a reasonable supposition. The ancients who made that supposition would well have been familiar if weather issues argued against the plausibility.
Talisker replied:
“So that means you have an answer for what shepherds were doing outside in the fields at night, with their flocks of sheep, at the end of December, in winter?”
First, am I required to?
Second, was there a curfew for shepherds in December? Sheep too?
Chrysostom in the 4th century argued for adopting the Roman date for the feast of Christmas. One of his arguments was that the Romans derived the date from the census records.
We have no way of proving that was indeed the case, but it is certainly possible and cannot be discounted offhand.
In doing an electronic search of Russell’s works, I do not find any place that Russell ever said anything about the instrument of Jesus’ death being a “torture stake” rather than a cross.
Often many make the claim that Russell was the founder of the JWs, and confuse the JWs’ organization stance as the only true church with Russell. Russell did not believe an outward, earthly “Jehovah’s organization,” as Rutherford and the JWs speak of.
In truth Charles Taze Russell was not the founder of the JWs, nor did he believe in such an authoritative organization as the JWs. Russell believed that one can be saved by grace by faith in the blood of Jesus, regardless of denominational affiliation.
Russell stated: “the Lord in Heaven records as members of His true Church all the saintly — whether Roman Catholics, Anglican Catholics, Greek Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc. — and none others.... Do we not see that a part of our mistake was in calling the outward organization the Church of Christ, instead of remembering that the Lord alone writes the names of the Church, that He alone reads the hearts, that He alone is the Judge, and that He alone has the right to blot out the names of those who become reprobates? ... We must see that the Church is a comparatively small company of saintly footstep followers of Jesus, irrespective of sectarian lines.” — Bible Students Monthly, Volume 7, Number 9 (1915), Under the title, “The Catholic Church — St. Peter’s Kingdom Keys.”
And Russell stated: “all who are worshiping any church organization should be warned. See thou do it not.’ These are thy fellow servants. ‘Worship God.’ `Rev. 22:9`.” — “Dialogue Rev. 13”, The Watch Tower, January 1880, page 2.
He further stated: “the only authority in it is the Lord, the Head of the Church, and his Word, and the words of those whom he specially chose to be his mouth-pieces, the apostles.” — “Love As Brethren, Be Sympathetic, Be Courteous”, The Watch Tower, July 1, 1900, page 195.
And, “we believe that in every nation and denomination there are some true saints of God, members therefore of the true Church of God.” — “The Golden Age At Hand”, What Pastor Russell Wrote for the Overland Monthly, page 385.
It was Rutherford, who, after Russell died, brought forth a “new organization,” which he later called “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” along with a new set of teachings that form much of the basis for the JW organization to this day.
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