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Joseph Smith Is Tarred and Feathered [LDS lesson in children's class ages 8-11]
LDS.org Primary ^ | 1977

Posted on 04/03/2011 8:11:07 AM PDT by greyfoxx39

Primary 5: Doctrine and Covenants: Church History  

“Lesson 21: Joseph Smith Is Tarred and Feathered,” Primary 5: Doctrine and Covenants: Church History, (1997),110

Purpose

To help each child desire to develop a forgiving attitude.

Preparation

  • 1. Prayerfully study Doctrine and Covenants 64:8–11, 15–16 and the historical account given in this lesson. Then study the lesson and decide how you want to teach the children the historical account. (See “Preparing Your Lessons,” pp. vi–vii, and “Teaching the Scriptural and Historical Accounts,” pp. vii–ix.)

  • 2. Select the discussion questions and enrichment activities that will involve the children and best help them achieve the purpose of the lesson.

  • 3. Materials needed:

    • a. A Doctrine and Covenants for each child.

    • b. A pencil and two pieces of paper for each child.

    • c. Picture 5-1, The Prophet Joseph Smith (Gospel Art Picture Kit 401; 62002), or 5-2, Joseph Smith (Gospel Art Picture Kit 400; 62449); picture 5-23, Man Being Tarred and Feathered.

Suggested Lesson Development

Invite a child to give the opening prayer.

Attention Activity

Give each child two pieces of paper and a pencil. On the first piece of paper, have each child write several blessings he or she has received. On the second piece of paper, have each child write something unkind that someone has done to him or her.

Have the children place the papers on which they have written their blessings on their laps and hold the papers that describe the unkind acts right in front of their eyes, touching their noses.

  • • Can you see the paper on which you listed your blessings?

Explain that sometimes when someone hurts our feelings, we think about our hurt feelings so much that we can no longer see or enjoy our blessings. Ask the children to crumple up the papers listing the unkind acts. Collect these papers or have the children put them in the wastebasket. Explain that we can feel happier when we forgive and forget about the unkind things others do and concentrate on our blessings.

Explain that Joseph Smith suffered persecution from many people. Ministers of other religions, strangers, and even some of his friends were unkind to him. He had to decide whether to let this unfair treatment make him angry and unhappy or to be forgiving to these people.

Historical Account

Teach the children about Joseph Smith’s reaction to those who persecuted him, as illustrated by the following historical account. Display the pictures at appropriate times.

Soon after the Church was organized, some of the members began to apostatize, or leave the Church. They quit attending Church meetings, opposed the Prophet, and persecuted the Saints. People apostatized for various reasons. For example, one man left the Church because his horse died while he was traveling to join the Saints in Missouri. Another man apostatized after he saw Joseph Smith playing with children. He thought a prophet should be too serious to play with children. One man saw that his name was misspelled on a Church document and thought that meant Joseph Smith was not inspired by God. Other people left the Church because they did not receive the help they expected with their financial problems. Some members left the Church because they could not forgive other members for actions that had offended them. After leaving the Church, these offended people often became the Church’s worst enemies.

Ezra Booth joined the Church in 1831 after seeing the Prophet heal Elsa Johnson’s arm (see lesson 19). Several months later he was called on a mission to Missouri. He was angry because he had to walk the entire journey and because missionary life was not what he had expected. He was disappointed because he did not see any more miracles like the healing of Elsa Johnson. He began to think and say bad things about the leaders of the Church. Because of his improper behavior during his mission, Ezra Booth was excommunicated when he returned to Ohio. This meant that he was no longer a member of the Church. Instead of repenting, Booth began writing letters to a local newspaper, telling lies about Joseph Smith and the Church. These letters influenced many people in Ohio to become suspicious of Church members and to persecute them.

One winter night a group of men who believed Ezra Booth’s letters got drunk and attacked the homes of Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon in Hiram, Ohio. Joseph had been up late caring for his adopted son, who had the measles, and had just fallen asleep when the angry mob broke into the house. The men dragged Joseph outside, swearing and threatening to kill him. They choked him, tore off his clothes, and tried to push a paddle of hot tar and a bottle of acid into his mouth. The bottle of acid broke, chipping one of Joseph’s teeth and causing him to speak with a whistle for the rest of his life. The men in the mob also dragged Sidney Rigdon from his home. When Joseph saw Sidney lying on the ground, he thought Sidney was dead. The mob decided not to kill Joseph, but they scratched him severely, spread hot tar all over his body, and covered him with feathers.

When Joseph finally got home, Emma saw him and fainted, because she thought the tar covering Joseph was blood. Joseph’s friends helped him clean off the tar, a long and painful process. Sidney Rigdon had been knocked unconscious from the severe cuts and bruises to his head, and he was delirious for several days. Following this terrible experience, the baby that Joseph had been caring for that night caught a severe cold and died.

The next day was Sunday, and Joseph went at the usual time to worship with the Saints. The group of people he preached to included some members of the mob who had covered him with tar and feathers the night before. Even with his skin scraped and sore, Joseph preached as usual and never mentioned the violence of the night before.

Discussion and Application Questions

Study the following questions and the scripture references as you prepare your lesson. Use the questions you feel will best help the children understand the scriptures and apply the principles in their lives. Reading and discussing the scriptures with the children in class will help them gain personal insights.

  • • Why did some of the early Church members apostatize from the Church? How could a forgiving attitude have helped them? What does the Lord say we should do when others offend us? (D&C 64:8–11.)

  • • What did the Lord say Ezra Booth had done wrong? (D&C 64:15–16.) What do we lose if we desire what is wrong? (D&C 64:16.)

  • • What unkind things did the mob do to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon? Why do you think they did these things?

  • • What did Joseph Smith do the morning after he was tarred and feathered? Who was in the congregation? How did Joseph Smith’s actions show that he was a forgiving person? (Joseph Smith did not seek revenge on those who had been cruel to him. He knew that Satan influenced them to oppose the important work of teaching the restored gospel and establishing Jesus’ church on the earth.)

  • • What did Joseph Smith do when he was faced with trials and persecution? (He continued to do the Lord’s work. He understood that Satan would do all he could to destroy the work of the Lord. When bad things happened, Joseph Smith made the best of the situation and continued serving the Lord.)

  • • How do you feel when someone is unkind to you? How do feelings of anger affect us? Help the children understand that being angry or unkind does not help us feel better. If we remain angry or act unkindly in return, we cause ourselves even more unhappiness. What could you do when someone is unkind to you? (See enrichment activities 1 and 3.) What might happen if you are unkind to the person who was unkind to you? What might happen if you are kind to that person?

  • • How can we follow Joseph Smith’s example and develop a forgiving attitude toward those who have hurt or offended us?

  • • How does having a bitter and unforgiving attitude affect us? How does having a forgiving attitude affect us?

  • • Whom are we required to forgive? (D&C 64:10–11.) Why is it important for us to forgive others? (D&C 64:9.) How do we feel when we forgive someone who has hurt our feelings?

Enrichment Activities

You may use one or more of the following activities any time during the lesson or as a review, summary, or challenge.

  • 1. Read statements such as the following ones to the children. Ask them to put their thumbs up if the statement reflects a forgiving attitude and put their thumbs down if it reflects an unforgiving attitude. Discuss how each action described shows forgiveness or a lack of forgiveness.

    • • She hasn’t been friendly to me so I’m not going to be friendly to her.

    • • Every time I see him, he pushes me around. He must have a problem or he wouldn’t treat others so unkindly.

    • • I hit him because he made fun of my little sister.

    • • My little brother scribbled on my schoolwork, so I had to do it over again. I wasn’t angry with him because he is too young to understand how important that paper was.

    • • I’ll forgive her, but I’ll never speak to her again.

    • • My best friend was rude to me today. Maybe she is worried about something.

  • 2. Read or have a child read aloud Proverbs 15:1, and discuss its meaning with the children. Then tell the following story in your own words:

    • In the summer of 1838, when Joseph Smith and his family were living in Far West, Missouri, a false story was spread that Joseph had killed seven men and was going to organize a group to kill everyone who was not a member of the Church. A large group of armed men led by eight officers came looking for Joseph at the house of his parents, where he was visiting. The officers told Lucy Smith, Joseph’s mother, that they had come to kill Joseph Smith and all the other members of the Church. Lucy responded calmly and introduced Joseph to the men. Joseph shook hands with the men in a friendly manner while they stared in disbelief. After all the stories they had heard, it was hard for them to believe this kind and sincere man was Joseph Smith.

    • The Prophet talked with the men for a long time, explaining the views of the Church and the persecution the members had received. He told the men that if any of the members of the Church had broken the law, they ought to be tried by the law in a courtroom, before anyone else was hurt. Then Joseph prepared to leave, explaining to his mother that he needed to get home as Emma was expecting him. Two of the officers jumped to their feet and insisted that they accompany him home, as it was not safe for him to travel alone. The armed men no longer had a desire to harm Joseph, and they returned to their homes with a great respect for him. (See Lucy Mack Smith, History of Joseph Smith, ed. Preston Nibley [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1958], pp. 254–56.)

    • • How did Lucy and Joseph Smith follow Proverbs 15:1 in dealing with these men?

    • • What was the result of Joseph’s “soft answer”?

  • 3. Have the children act out situations in which they can choose to have a forgiving attitude or an unforgiving one. Help them understand that even when they have been hurt, they are free to choose what their attitude will be. Also help them understand that hurt feelings often come because of a misunderstanding rather than an intent to hurt. Use the following situations or those used in enrichment activity 1:

    • • You cleaned your room before you went to school, but after you left, your younger sister messed it up. When you get home from school, your mother will not let you play with your friends because your room is not clean.

    • • You are always chosen last for sports teams at school, which makes you feel hurt. On the way home from school one day you see one of the team captains fall off his bike. His school books and papers scatter all over.

    • • Your friend has a party but does not invite you.

  • 4. Share and allow the children to share appropriate personal experiences in forgiving others or being forgiven.

  • 5. Sing or say the words to “Help Me, Dear Father” (Children’s Songbook, p. 99) with the children.

Conclusion

Testimony

Share your testimony about the peace we can feel when we have a forgiving attitude. Encourage the children to strive to be understanding and kind even when others are unkind to them.

Suggested Home Reading

Suggest that the children study Doctrine and Covenants 64:9–11 at home as a review of this lesson.

Suggested Family Sharing

Encourage the children to share with their families a specific part of the lesson, such as a story, question, or activity, or to read with their families the “Suggested Home Reading.”

Invite a child to give the closing prayer.



TOPICS: General Discusssion; History; Ministry/Outreach; Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: antimormonhatred; antimormonmanifesto; children; flamebait; flamewar; forgivenessnot; inman; lds; mormoaner; mormoaning; mormonhatered; propaganda; religiousintolerance; zot
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This thread is in response to a thread comment "Do you think they (mormons) have a Sunday School class that teaches them that everything is an attack on lds?"

So, I searched the official LDS site, and saw this being taught to children 8 to 11 years old.

This is indoctrination via propaganda, plain and simple from the Family Church!

1 posted on 04/03/2011 8:11:12 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; Tennessee Nana; ...
Disclaimer: I am former LDS and "anti" mormonism. I post articles from official mormon sources that often relate to current discussions taking place on the forum to provide a means for open discussion in the Religion forum.
 
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2 posted on 04/03/2011 8:13:04 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (White House war strategy 2011: Sun Tzu meets Barney Fife..H/T Iowahawk)
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To: greyfoxx39

Smith deserved worse than he got


3 posted on 04/03/2011 8:20:22 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: greyfoxx39

Lived in SLC for four years during the late 80’s. The congregation of our Lutheran church was 25% former LDS.


4 posted on 04/03/2011 8:21:49 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: greyfoxx39
JS invented and BY established his generally benevolent cult that thankfully stresses Christian values.

I like to leave it at that but some want to compare the well intentioned if wholly contrived LDS with The Satanically directed so-called “ROP” and that just goes too far.

5 posted on 04/03/2011 8:22:37 AM PDT by Happy Rain ("WARNING" -Sarah Palin is a very dangerous woman--she defends herself when attacked.)
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To: bcsco

I left my Lutheran church. Aren’t they now allowing homo pastors?


6 posted on 04/03/2011 8:26:12 AM PDT by NoGrayZone (“Too often, Republicans have the fighting instinct of sheep"...RUN SARAH RUN!!)
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To: bcsco

ELCA, that’s it. They have decided everything is a okay, anything goes, no judgment, including homo pastors.

NOT what my Bible states.


7 posted on 04/03/2011 8:30:37 AM PDT by NoGrayZone (“Too often, Republicans have the fighting instinct of sheep"...RUN SARAH RUN!!)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Smith had his “whatever” near me. I have an old local history book circa that says Mormanism will soon be gone.


8 posted on 04/03/2011 8:30:40 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: NoGrayZone

The Southern Lutheran Churches just recently banned by plebiscite actively homosexual pastors and are damn proud of it!


9 posted on 04/03/2011 8:32:24 AM PDT by Happy Rain ("WARNING" -Sarah Palin is a very dangerous woman--she defends herself when attacked.)
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To: NoGrayZone

The church in SLC was ELCA. We’re now back with LCMS which is a confessional, doctrinal synod.


10 posted on 04/03/2011 8:33:30 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: greyfoxx39

Religious hate is unamerican.


11 posted on 04/03/2011 8:35:56 AM PDT by Tread EZ (God bless you and yours)
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To: greyfoxx39
So, I searched the official LDS site, and saw this being taught to children 8 to 11 years old. This is indoctrination via propaganda, plain and simple from the Family Church!

Not saying I believe any of this (LDS teaching), but they do and have the freedom to believe it. Just on the merit of religious freedom in theory, how is this different than us teaching about Job or Jesus' suffering? From the outside of Christianity, the exact same charges could be made. What about Buddhists teaching about all the trials and suffering Siddhartha Gautama went through on his path to enlightenment? Would you consider a Hindu teaching about Durga indoctrination via propaganda?

12 posted on 04/03/2011 8:36:18 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: Happy Rain

I have heard some of the Lutheran churches removed themselves from the ELCA, but I didn’t know some were banned!!

God Bless them!


13 posted on 04/03/2011 8:39:33 AM PDT by NoGrayZone (“Too often, Republicans have the fighting instinct of sheep"...RUN SARAH RUN!!)
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To: greyfoxx39

If this is the event I’m thinking of - the sunday school story is grossly misrepresented. Smith was tarred and feathered by a group who believed Smith was trying to bed a local girl. Her brother and his friends did the service to smith that night.


14 posted on 04/03/2011 8:40:19 AM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: bcsco

My old church is still listed with the ELCA. When I went back and couldn’t feel Him there, I thought it was me.

Years later, after I left again, I realized it wasn’t me.


15 posted on 04/03/2011 8:41:36 AM PDT by NoGrayZone (“Too often, Republicans have the fighting instinct of sheep"...RUN SARAH RUN!!)
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To: greyfoxx39
#
 
She hasn’t been friendly to me so I’m not going to be friendly to her.  That's right.  I'm busy and have better things to do than to be everyones psychologist.  They can figure out their own problem or have a drink to deal with it.
#
 
• Every time I see him, he pushes me around. He must have a problem or he wouldn’t treat others so unkindly.  Time for an attitude adjustment and the only way to deal with bullies is a swift response greater than the one received.  Guaranteed to work 99% of the time and they can go prey on someone else.
#
 
• I hit him because he made fun of my little sister.  Shouldn't mess with my sister.  If I tell you leave her alone, be done with it or don't be surprised by the consequence.  You don't pick on my sister.  My brother on the other hand should know better than to allow that behavior to continue.
#
 
• My little brother scribbled on my schoolwork, so I had to do it over again. I wasn’t angry with him because he is too young to understand how important that paper was.  Bottom line is he getting a few choice words.  He will quickly understand why he shouldn't mess with my stuff and he will understand what his action cost me.  I will still love him and protect him and we won't have that conversation again.  Why?  We love each other and would never want to do anything that has an adverse affect on each other.
#
 
• I’ll forgive her, but I’ll never speak to her again.  That's about it.  We forgive our trespassers but we don't forget their names.  If they have a pattern of aborrent behavior it is their responsibility to grow beyond it and act appropriately.
#
 
• My best friend was rude to me today. Maybe she is worried about something.   She probably was worried about something and I am sensitive to those feelings and will ask if we can talk.  As a friend I would want to know "What's going on?"  "Is there something I can do to help you with today?"  "Listen, that wasn't cool what you did today but I am here for you"
 
#
 
You cleaned your room before you went to school, but after you left, your younger sister messed it up. When you get home from school, your mother will not let you play with your friends because your room is not clean.  Guess what?  We are both going to clean it and that's the way it is.  Only one person is going to complain about this in the end.  It ain't me and she won't do it again as I am sure she didn't mean to.
#
 
• You are always chosen last for sports teams at school, which makes you feel hurt. On the way home from school one day you see one of the team captains fall off his bike. His school books and papers scatter all over.  I'm a pragmatist.  If I am chosen last for sports there must be a perception that I am not very good.  I will take my position and show them and failing that, work on that sport in private, with a friend or my family.
 
Next time the other team will see I excel and will be sure to horse trade hoping to get me in the deal.  No one wants to lose and kids are competitive.  You need to be as well.
 
As for the kid that fell off his bike I would help him get back on it and chase his papers down so he wouldn't lose anything.  Makes for better neighbors and is the right thing to do.
 

#
 
• Your friend has a party but does not invite you.   Maybe there was a theme or a person that I don't get along with or it had a specific use that I didn't fit into.  I ain't complaining.  I got plenty of other things to do and my friend wouldn't go out of her way to hurt me by not inviting me.

16 posted on 04/03/2011 8:45:40 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: NoGrayZone; Happy Rain
I have heard some of the Lutheran churches removed themselves from the ELCA, but I didn’t know some were banned!!

I don't believe that's what Happy Rain wrote. "The Southern Lutheran Churches just recently banned by plebiscite actively homosexual pastors and are damn proud of it!"

This states some 'Southern Lutheran Churches' themselves banned actively homosexual pastors. It doesn't state some churches were banned from the ELCA. Note that 'Southern Lutheran Churches' doesn't refer to a specific synod (ELCA, LCMS, WELS...) so its unclear as to who Happy Rain was referring to.

17 posted on 04/03/2011 8:46:09 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: bcsco

I can’t believe the Lutherans were poaching Mormons! /S


18 posted on 04/03/2011 8:46:32 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: greyfoxx39

So I must have missed the part of this lesson that teaches about Jesus Christ. It seems all this lesson does is praise, as in worship, Joseph Smith.
Are you sure you posted the whole lesson? /s/


19 posted on 04/03/2011 8:46:48 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Happy Rain

I had something funny to say and then I read your “About” page.

Pretty cool story of your family.


20 posted on 04/03/2011 8:48:13 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: bcsco

Oooooh, if that’s the case then I did read it wrong. But, are they still part of the ELCA?


21 posted on 04/03/2011 8:49:31 AM PDT by NoGrayZone (“Too often, Republicans have the fighting instinct of sheep"...RUN SARAH RUN!!)
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To: Happy Rain
Which Christian values?
The created christ or the eternal Christ?
Which Christian values?
Baptism for the dead, celestial marriage, gods of their own planets, eternal pregnancy for women, protective underwear, a progressed god, secret temple ceremonies, Jesus not sufficient to save "after all we can do", Jesus paying the price in the garden not on the Cross.........none of these are Christian values.
22 posted on 04/03/2011 8:51:46 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Happy Rain
JS invented and BY established his generally benevolent cult that thankfully stresses Christian values.

Far West History-Evidence given before the Hon. Austin A. King, Judge of the Fifth Judicial Circuit of the State of Missouri

Please provide links to evidence that "some want to compare the well intentioned if wholly contrived LDS with The Satanically directed so-called “ROP”.

There is certainly nothing in this post that makes that comparison, unless you yourself want to compare indoctrination of youth by both cults. As stated, I am former mormon and well acquainted with the "intentions" of LDS. Inc.

23 posted on 04/03/2011 8:52:57 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (White House war strategy 2011: Sun Tzu meets Barney Fife..H/T Iowahawk)
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To: Tread EZ

Show me the hate.
This post is from lds Sunday School lessons, you got that right?


24 posted on 04/03/2011 8:53:29 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Tread EZ

Show me the hate.
This post is from lds Sunday School lessons, you got that right?


25 posted on 04/03/2011 8:53:29 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Vendome

There were a lot of Mormons who’d left the church (in their opinion...the church continued to carry them on their rolls). They found homes in the various Christian churches in the area. Being strongly outnumbered, these Christian churches worked together on some issues to get things done, sharing schools was the biggest issue. Our ELCA church was allowed a member to sit on the LCMS schools board (my wife). We had our son in an LCMS high school. Nothing really surprising about that.

But this was: One of our son’s class members (there were 17 in all...) was the grandson of Ezra Taft Benson, then president of the LDS church.


26 posted on 04/03/2011 8:55:42 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: mnehring

Really? If you are in a Christian church and the lessons are about a Biblical figure, the lessons are all brought back to Christ.
This lesson posted here is about the praise of Joseph Smith and Smith alone.


27 posted on 04/03/2011 8:56:45 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Tread EZ

We are the Apostates and Whores of Babylon.

What are you talking about?


28 posted on 04/03/2011 8:57:16 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: NoGrayZone
But, are they still part of the ELCA?

I don't know. All it states is 'Southern Lutheran Churches'. That could mean any of the synods I listed.

29 posted on 04/03/2011 8:58:21 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: mnehring
on the merit of religious freedom in theory, how is this different than us teaching about Job or Jesus' suffering?

If you care to make the same comparison that mormonism makes of Joseph Smith to Jesus, you are free to do so.

30 posted on 04/03/2011 8:59:04 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (White House war strategy 2011: Sun Tzu meets Barney Fife..H/T Iowahawk)
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To: svcw; Vendome

Do you, or do you not, agree that religious hate is unamerican?


31 posted on 04/03/2011 9:05:19 AM PDT by Tread EZ (God bless you and yours)
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To: Tread EZ
Religious hate is unamerican.

Yep

Brigham Young (Mormonism's Second President)

"When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73).

"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171).

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199).

"Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

"The religion of God embraces every fact that exists in all the wide arena of nature, while the religions of men consist of theory devoid of fact, or of any true principle of guidance; hence the professing Christian world are like a ship upon a boisterous ocean without rudder, compass, or pilot, and are tossed hither and thither by every wind of doctrine" (Journal of Discourses 10:265).

"... the time came when Paganism was engrafted into Christianity, and at last Christianity was converted into Paganism rather than converting the Pagans" (Journal of Discourses 22:44).

"Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and kicked on to the earth" (Journal of Discourses 6:176).

John Taylor (Mormonism's 3rd President)

"We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense ...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century" (Journal of Discourses 6:167).

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast." (Journal of Discourses 6:25).

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing ...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest of fools; they know neither God nor the things of God" (Journal of Discourses 13:225).

"And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses 6:24). <

Orson Pratt (Mormon Apostle)

"Q. After the Church of Christ fled from the earth to heaven, what was left?

"A. A set of wicked Apostates, murderers, and idolaters, who ...left to follow the wicked imaginations of their own corrupt hearts, and to build up churches by human authority..." (The Seer, pg.205).

"...all other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who receives Baptism or the Lord's supper from their hands highly offend God, for he looks upon them as the most corrupt of all people ...The only persons among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people who have authority from Jesus Christ to administer any gospel ordinance are those called and authorized among the Latter-day Saints" (The Seer, pg. 255).

"This class of men, calling themselves Christian, uniting with the various forms of the pagan religion, adopting many of their ceremonies and institutions, became very popular, and finally some of the pagans embraced Christianity and were placed, as it were, upon the throne, and what they termed Christianity became very popular indeed. How long has this order of things existed, this dreadful apostasy, this class of people that pronounced themselves Zion, or Christians, without any of the characteristics of Zion? It has existed for some sixteen or seventeen centuries. It has spread itself and grown and gone into the four quarters of the earth. It is the great ecclesiastical power that is spoken of by the revelator John, and called by him the most corrupt and most wicked of all the powers of the earth, under the name of spiritual Babylon, or in other words Babel, which signifies confusion. This great and corrupt power is also represented by John as presenting a golden cup to the nations, full of all manner of filthiness and abominations" (Journal of Discourses 14:346).

Religious hate IS unamerican. Is religious hate of Christianity by mormons unamerican?

32 posted on 04/03/2011 9:07:46 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (White House war strategy 2011: Sun Tzu meets Barney Fife..H/T Iowahawk)
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To: bcsco

That’s very interesting.

My friend, who turns 101 in July, is LDS and her family traveled with Brigham Young across the plains.


33 posted on 04/03/2011 9:11:01 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: Tread EZ; svcw; Elsie

Seriously? I am going to cut you some slack as you are new around here.

I want to qualify my answer.

I don’t have Mormons or the Church of LDS. However, we have very serious doctrinal differences which, to a LDS missionary they are very aware of and can explain those differences quite well.

We are here to set the record straight.

They have spent 170 years railing against Christianity and of recent have oddly been attempting to co-opt Christianity. Not be a part of but outright co-opt it, excluding others from their belief system.

And Yes, religious bigotry is unAmerican but not speaking up for your faith is just about heretical in my view.

For starters I direct to my next post which was given to me by Elsie.


34 posted on 04/03/2011 9:17:38 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: Vendome

Our son graduated HS in 1991. We’d returned to Illinois the year before and left him in SLC with friends to complete his Senior year. We returned for his graduation. The lad was not named Benson. It was his mother who was daughter to Ezra Taft Benson.


35 posted on 04/03/2011 9:19:21 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: Tread EZ; svcw; Elsie

I can't the one Elsie gave me but don't worry someone will be right along with the "Differences between Mormonism and Christianity".

And then I found this very interesting:

LDS and RLDS (Community of Christ): Differences & Similarities

By Bill McKeever

In 1844, Joseph Smith, prophet and seer and revelator of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, met an untimely death when he was killed in a gun battle at Carthage Jail in Carthage, Illinois. His early demise left the fledgling church with a political power struggle. Although numerous splinter groups were formed, a large number of Latter-day Saints decided to pledge their allegiance to Brigham Young. In doing so, Young led his followers to the Salt Lake Valley in what is today known as the state of Utah. Today, the LDS Church is the largest of the Latter-day Saint movements.

Joseph Smith's widow, Emma Smith, chose to remain behind with her three children. Many of those who refused to follow Young felt that a descendant of Joseph Smith must become his successor. In June 1852, the "New Organization of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" held its first conference. Though encouraged to become the head of the church, Joseph Smith III, the oldest of Emma's three sons, refused to do so until 1860 when The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS) was formed. He held this position for 54 years. For much of its history the RLDS chose a leader who was related to Joseph Smith (The LDS typically choose the senior member of the Council of the Twelve when there is a vacancy). In 1996 this tradition was broken when W. Grant McMurray became the first president who had no relationship with the Smith family. Under the leadership of McMurray, the name of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was officially changed to the Community of Christ (CofC) at its World Conference in 2000.

Members who belong to the LDS Church in Utah often refer to themselves as being Mormons, an early nickname attributed to the followers of Joseph Smith. Members of the CofC prefer not to be called by this title.

Both groups accept the Book of Mormon as part of its scripture; however, the LDS Church has made numerous "corrections" to their edition which have not been included in the CofC edition.

The LDS Church considers the following four books to be scripture: the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. The CofC has never recognized the Pearl of Great Price and insists that the Book of Abraham contradicts teachings found in the Bible and Book of Mormon.

The LDS Church teaches that God is a glorified, exalted human being and that there was a time in history when God was not God. The CofC espuses a deity who was eternally God and "independent of any external or prior cause" (Some Differences Between the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pg.1).

The LDS Church teaches that there is a myriad of Gods on various worlds. The LDS Godhead is tri-theistic, or composed of three separate and distinct Gods, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. According to its official website, the CofC states, "We affirm the Trinity - God who is a community of three person. All things that exist owe their being to God: mystery beyond understanding and love beyond imagination. This God alone is worthy of our worship."

Both groups believe men will be judged according to their works.

Both groups hold to baptismal regeneration.

Both groups believe in an open canon and "present-day revelation."

Whereas only males can hold priesthood authority in the LDS Church, the CofC authorized the ordination of women to the priesthood in 1984.

The LDS Church claims that men are Gods in embryo and that righteous Mormons can become Gods in the next life. The CofC does not teach that men can become Gods.

Utah Mormons believe that in order to become a God, the faithful member must participate in esoteric temple "endowment" ceremonies.  The Mormons only allow "worthy" members to enter their temples and participate in its rituals. The CofC owns two buildings called temples (Kirtland, OH and Independence, MO), and both are open to the public. The CofC "rejects the whole system of temple rituals, secret names, signs, oaths, and handshakes which the Church in Utah proclaims are essential to the ultimate salvation of man" (Fundamental Differences, 1960, pg. 230).

Utah Mormonism teaches that marriages performed in LDS temples can continue after death. The CofC teaches that marriage relationships pertain only to mortal life.

The CofC utilizes the symbol of the cross on its buildings, whereas the LDS Church has refused to use this symbol.

During the 19th century, the LDS Church in Utah strongly emphasized the practice of plural marriage as a requirement for exaltation. Although this requirement was officially abolished in 1890 (as a condition for Utah statehood), it is still taught that polygamy will be practiced in the hereafter. "Obviously the holy practice will commence again after the Second Coming of the Son of Man and the ushering in of the millennium" (Mormon Doctrine, Bruce McConkie, pg. 522,523). The CofC has always denounced polygamy although it does not deny that it was practiced. For instance, Robert B. Flanders, on page 209 of his book titled, Nauvoo: Kingdom on the Mississippi, wrote, "The Nauvoo Temple was the focus of religious innovations which revolutionized Mormonism. Ordinances for the dead, as well as novel and secret ordinances for the living, including marriage for eternity, plural marriage, and other extraordinary familial arrangements, were introduced by Smith and Young in Nauvoo for temple observance."

The LDS Church teaches that deceased persons can embrace Mormonism in the spirit world through "baptism for the dead." The CofC has never condoned such a teaching and does not practice baptism for the dead.

Until 1978, the LDS Church taught that the "Seed of Cain," those of African heritage, could not hold the Mormon priesthood since such people were not valiant enough for the cause of Christ when Lucifer rebelled against God in the "pre-existence." The CofC has never held such a view although Joseph Smith III claimed to have received a revelation which warned his Church to "not be hasty in ordaining men of the Negro race to offices in my church" since "all are not acceptable unto me as servants ..." (Reorganized Doctrine and Covenants 116:4.)

The LDS Church interprets the tithe as 1/10 of one's income, whereas the CofC bases the tithe on 1/10 of one's increase.

Both the LDS and CofC claimed God ordained their organization as the true restoration of fallen Christianity. The LDS Church continues to insist that it alone represents "the only true church" and more closely emulates primitive Christianity. The CofC has come to abandon this notion: "A majority of committee members held that this vision of the nature of the church was inadequate for the church of the present day. It does not conform to our best present understanding of the nature of God as revealed in the gospel of Christ, nor does it allow us to account for the fact that we continually experience the reality of authentic Christian discipleship in people from other traditions. Moreover, our past understanding of earliest Christianity has proved to be historically deficient: there is simply no evidence that a church existed in the first century that looked like ours. Therefore, the belief that we are the restoration of the primitive form of Christianity can no longer be sustained."


36 posted on 04/03/2011 9:20:33 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: greyfoxx39; Tread EZ

If greyfoxx’s post demonstrates the whole feeling of LDS then and now. I have one that goes into even greater detail.

If you’d like to see it, let me know.


37 posted on 04/03/2011 9:23:01 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: bcsco

Neat story.


38 posted on 04/03/2011 9:24:09 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: Vendome
And Yes, religious bigotry is unAmerican but not speaking up for your faith is just about heretical in my view.

Thank you for the kind response. Surely, if doctrinal differences are at issue, then politely argue doctrine. If one is concerned about indoctrination of youth, then ALL religions are guilty.

Catholics have the apostles' creed taught at CCD. Protestants have "Yes Jesus Loves me" taught in Sunday School. I presume they do it because they believe they know the truth and want to share it with people they love.

Why are there these repeated posts attacking Mormons on FR? Aren't Mormons Americans? Do you doubt that they believe their doctrine? Do you believe the share their religious beliefs out of hate?

I can't believe that any educated Christian could believe that attacking someone is a way to bring them to Christ.

40 posted on 04/03/2011 9:30:47 AM PDT by Tread EZ (God bless you and yours)
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To: Vendome

Your friend’s ancestors must have immigrated 1846-47. That was a hard trek. One has to give credit to their persistence in developing a city out of what was then a hostile desert. Still is, once outside the metropolitan area.


41 posted on 04/03/2011 9:36:08 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: Tread EZ

You got this hang up about and trying to frame the discussion around that perjorative.

We don’t hate Mormons or LDS. We disagree with their doctrine but, a good many Christians don’t know the difference between them.

We are here to educate and illuminate.

I don’t think we are “Apostates and Whores of Babylon” but they most certainly do.

Who’s that hate-uh?


42 posted on 04/03/2011 9:36:50 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: bcsco

Yep. Here father was sent $10 and a ticket to come to America from England and from wherever he landed he made his way to Brigham Young and they set out across the plains until they arrived in Zion.


43 posted on 04/03/2011 9:40:21 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: Vendome

Dangit! My typing is horrible this morning.

I need to go on a diet and lose these fat fingers.


44 posted on 04/03/2011 9:41:26 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: Tread EZ
Catholics have the apostles' creed taught at CCD. Protestants have "Yes Jesus Loves me" taught in Sunday School. I presume they do it because they believe they know the truth and want to share it with people they love.

Lutherans as well teach the Apostle, Nicene and Athanasian creeds, not only in Sunday School but in their catechisms and confirmation classes. "Yes Jesus Loves Me" is in no way comparable to these creeds. It is a friendly, children directed song about Christ's love.

45 posted on 04/03/2011 9:42:00 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: Vendome
“Apostates and Whores of Babylon” but they most certainly do."

Can you show me a FReeper post by a Mormon that calls Christians "Apostates and Whores of Babylon?"

46 posted on 04/03/2011 9:44:13 AM PDT by Tread EZ (God bless you and yours)
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To: bcsco
"Yes Jesus Loves Me" is in no way comparable to these creeds. It is a friendly, children directed song about Christ's love.

It is taught to children before the age of rational thought. It is done to indoctrinate (literally) rather than educate. It is done out of love, however, and therefore cannot be faulted on moral grounds.

47 posted on 04/03/2011 9:47:27 AM PDT by Tread EZ (God bless you and yours)
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To: Tread EZ

Why do you want me to show “A Freeper post by a Mormon” calling Christians “Apostates and Whores of Babylon”?


48 posted on 04/03/2011 9:48:34 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: Vendome
Why do you want me to show “A Freeper post by a Mormon” calling Christians “Apostates and Whores of Babylon”?

When you wrote: I don’t think we are “Apostates and Whores of Babylon” but they most certainly do.. Weren't you referring to "they" as Mormons?

49 posted on 04/03/2011 9:54:38 AM PDT by Tread EZ (God bless you and yours)
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To: Tread EZ

50 posted on 04/03/2011 9:58:52 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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