Posted on 10/17/2010 4:29:22 PM PDT by Stourme
I'm very curious as to how the various religions that use the Bible as a guide, view Revelation chapter 11.
If you don't have or don't know of an official doctrine, feel free to state your opinion.
Revelation 11 states that two prophets will be killed in Jerusalem three days before the second coming. Revelation 11:7-11
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
I find it interesting that they will not be burried. Muslim doctrine is that the spirit of Muslims re-enter the body just before burial. And it's at burial that they are judged. Non-Muslims go straight to hell. So it makes sense that the people that kill these two prophets don't care if they are burried or not. Because by Muslim doctrine, their spirits have already been sent to hell.
John saw this in vision, 2000 years ago.
Your thought?
It is the inspired, inerrant Word of God.
What indication is there that the witnesses are killed by Muslims?
Of course nobody wants to listen to me much anyway, since I think it already happened.
Sodom is a place, or was.
Egypt is a place.
NEITHER of them are where Christ was crucified.
Sometimes I think the author of some of this stuff was drunk.
Will this happen before or after 12/21/12?
“spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt”
In the NIV Bible the word “spiritually” is translated as “figuratively.”
It’s difficult to tell what is actual, and what is figurative in the book of Revelation. Here are two important point to keep in mind.
A. This Book, in fact the entire Bible is The Revelation of Jesus Christ. (It is not a weejee board for figuring out dates and future events.)
B. The “End Times” began with the ascention into Heaven of the Lord Jesus Christ. When Jesus disciples asked Him, “When shall these things be....” Jesus told them that it was not for them to know. The specifics of Christ’s return are deliberately hidden, until “need to know” time arrives.
We need to keep asking ourselves, “Am I looking for the rapture, or am I looking for the return of the Lord Jesus Christ.” I if your eyes are on the rapture, your eyes are on the wrong thing.
It said spiritually. I take that to mean a place which is not the old Sodom/Egypt.
Described in NIV as a ‘collage of images’ meant to describe this godless culture.
I was always taught that the two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah.
|
[xjcsa questions]
|
[Stourme answers]
None. My opinion alone.
However, it is the reality of that location in modern times. I doubt if it's the Jews in Israel that kills these two prophets. In reality the Muslims of that part of the world will consider them to be enemies.
Also, it's important to note that the people of the world will not recognize them for who they are.
But the people of the world will see their deaths (TV). On the third day there's a real "oh crap!" moment when the world sees them stand up.
Egypt is a place.
NEITHER of them are where Christ was crucified.
But the text states that the great city was spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. The former refers of course to a place that openly mocked God and the latter refers to a place where God's chosen people were enslaved. On top of that, the part of the text which refers to the place where Jesus was crucified, this of course was a place unlike Sodom or Egypt, in that there were plenty of purported followers of God but they openly refused Jesus as Messiah.
The great city in which the witnesses were murdered is not literally Sodom, Egypt, or the land in which Jesus was crucified, but a place that is a spiritual combination of the three, that is, a place where God is mocked AND where those who are believers are persecuted AND where Jesus is refused.
Keep in mind that early chapters of Revelation refer to those who believe in God being on the receiving end of severe persecution, up to and including physical death. Many of us will be killed off during this period because we fear God.
|
[Ammo Republic 15 engages]
|
[Stourme responds]
Thanks for your response. That's an interesting point of view.
What do you think about verse 6?
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
I've heard people say that we're in for a long drought. I've also heard so say no, it only means they have the power to do it, not that they will.
Why did you post this in News/Activism?
So the author give false names to the place?
Like if I mean Dallas but write Atlanta, it’s all good?
I want to think I’ve heard that the witnesses would have the power to breathe fire. Have you heard this before?
|
[camerongood210 states]
|
[Stourme relates]
And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.Rev 11: 5
Good observation. What do you think it means?
The two witnesses could be Moses and Elijah
As did Moses, the two witnesses “have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague” (11:6 with Exodus 7:14-21). This recalls Moses’ role as God’s agent, who through ten plagues—including turning the Nile and the waters of Egypt into blood—brought down the most powerful kingdom of the day.
Also, like Elijah, the two witnesses can consume their enemies with fire, if they try to hurt them (11:5 with 2 Kings 1:10). This fire is said to “come from their mouths” (11:5). Such a literal occurrence would be an odd sight, indeed!
It seems clear, then, that the two witnesses are portrayed as coming in the power of both Moses and Elijah, two of the greatest prophets of the Jewish nation.
The simple answer is personal protection, but I wonder if there could be some connection to the burning bush?
I was always taught and continue to accept that the two Witnesses or Prophets are Enoch and Elijah. Reason being, that they never died.
Augustine, among others, concurred.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.