Posted on 10/14/2010 5:47:30 AM PDT by Colofornian
Ghosts — They are highly popular entertainment fare in the world these days, given shows like "Ghost Hunters," "Ghost Whisperer," "Ghost Story," "Celebrity Ghost Story" and "Paranormal State..." as well as various movies over the years.
Trying to find or contact "ghosts" is the core of all these programs.
Forget Halloween season. This flurry of new ghost programming is popular year-round and seems to be at an all-time high.
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Lutherans
"...the Scriptures...mean...realms in which spiritual powers and beings exist (e.g., Eph. 6:12; Col. 1:16). However, our church...has not speculated on such questions...in what form "spirits" or "ghosts" may manifest themselves...biblical warnings concerning occultic activities (e.g., Deut. 18:9-14)..."
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Mormons
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has no firm doctrine on ghosts.
However Elder Bruce R. McConkie in "Mormon Doctrine" speculated:
"It is true that some mediums do make contact with spirits during séances. In most instances, however, such spirits as manifest themselves are probably the demons or devils who were cast out of heaven for rebellion. … Righteous spirits have nothing but contempt and pity for the attempts of mediums to make contact with them" (Page 759).
According to lds.org: "In a funeral sermon, the Prophet Joseph Smith declared that the spirits of righteous people who have died 'are not far from us...' (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 326).
"Other latter-day prophets have made similar statements. President Ezra Taft Benson said: 'Sometimes the veil between this life and the life beyond becomes very thin. Our loved ones who have passed on are not far from us' (in Conference Report, Apr. 1971, p. 18; or Ensign, June 1971, p. 33). President Brigham Young said: 'Where is the spirit world? It is right here' (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 376)," the LDS Church's official Web site states.
(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...
This article has various positions (or non-positions in some cases) on "ghosts," "spirits" and the forces of darkness. For example, it looks at Roman Catholic, Jehovah's Witnesses, Methodists, Lutherans, Seventh-day Adventists, and Mormons over three pages of the DesNews Web site.
I would have loved to have included the whole article, but ya know, copyright constraints.
I believe they are demonic entities and recently turned off Ghost Adventures because the show hosts were deliberately going out an provoking them. They aren’t something to mess with in that way. Ghost Hunters is tame. They evaluate the sounds and shadows (which is 98% of what their show is about) and try to debunk. G.A. says they try to debunk, but I can see them being an avenue that suckers others into dabbling in the occult.
Well....I do know that Mormonism teaches both the Holy Spirit AND the Holy Ghost as two separate forces.
My Irish-American brand of Catholicism certainly believed in ghosts! I remember with fascination that whenever we moved into a new house, the priest would come to offer a blessing. My mom - right or wrong - said it was to get rid of evil spirits, ghosts and the like.
When you look up the Journal of Discourses original quote, right after Brigham Young says the "spirit world...is right here" he adds: Do the good and evil spirits go together? Yes, they do. Do they both inhabit one kingdom? Yes, they do. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 368, June 22, 1856)
Then seven sentences later, Brigham Young adds: When the spirits of mankind leave their bodies, no matter whether the individual was a Prophet or the meanest person that you could find, where do they go? To the spirit world. Where is it? I am telling you. The spirit of Joseph, I do not know that it is just now in this bowery, but I will assure you that it is close to the Latter-day Saints... (same source, p. 369)
Young said these "meanest...spirits" hover "close to the Latter-day Saints..." in this close-by "Spirit World."
I know some Mormons try to play down what's in the Journal of Discourse (recordings of what their leaders said, often from the Salt Lake Tabernacle). But the fact is the official Lds Web site and many, many books published by the Mormon church constantly references the JoD.
Spirits have a history of deception. They’ll deceive you into thinking they are good...until it’s too late. Ouija boards too, bad news.
If the Lord would permit it, and it was His will that it should be done, you could see the spirits that have departed from this world, as plainly as you now see bodies with your natural eyes; as plainly as brothers Kimball and Hyde saw those wicked disembodied spirits in Preston, England. They saw devils there, as we see one another; they could hear them speak, and knew what they said. Could they hear them with the natural ear? No. Did they see those wicked spirits with their natural eyes? No. They could not see them the next morning, when they were not in the spirit; neither could they see them the day before, nor at any other time; their spiritual eyes were touched by the power of the Almighty. They said they looked through their natural eyes, and I suppose they did. Brother Kimball saw them, but I know not whether his natural eyes were open at the time or not; brother Kimball said that he lay upon the floor part of the time, and I presume his eyes were shut, but he saw them as also did brother Hyde, and they heard them speak. We may enquire where the spirits dwell, that the devil has power over? They dwell anywhere, in Preston, as well as in other places in England. Do they dwell anywhere else? Yes, on this continent; it is full of them. If you could see, and would walk over many parts of North America, you would see millions on millions of the spirits of those who have been slain upon this continent. Would you see the spirits of those who were as good in the flesh as they knew how to be? Yes. Would you see the spirits of the wicked? Yes. Could you see the spirits of devils? Yes, and that is all there is of them. They have been deprived of bodies, and that constitutes their curse, that is to say, speaking after the manner of men, you shall be wanderers on the earth, you have got to live out of doors all the time you live...You may now see people with legions of evil spirits in and around them; there are men who walk our streets that have more than a hundred devils in them and round about them, prompting them to all manner of evil, and some too that profess to be Latter Day Saints, and if you were to take the devils out of them and from about them, you would leave them dead corpses; for I believe there would be nothing left of them. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 368, June 22, 1856)
What is Brigham referencing re: "brothers Kimball and Hyde saw those wicked disembodied spirits in Preston, England?"
Well Heber C. Kimball became an Lds "apostle" and one of the top three men in the Lds hierarchy at one point in the 19th century. But before that, he was an Lds missionary to England. From reading the original sources, it appears that demons possessed Kimball and another Lds missionary, Isaac Russell, in Preston, Lancashire, England, in 1837
Here, I'll let the men's journals describe what happened. That way you have a first-hand account. BTW, these are from Mormon sources which are citing these Mormon leaders' journals:
Letter from Heber C. Kimball on the Early Lancashire work dated 2 Sep 1837:
p.5 A singular circumstance occurred before morning, which I will quote from Brother Hyde's journal, as he wrote it down. He commences as follows: "Elder [Isaac] Russell was much troubled with evil spirits and came into the room where Elder [Heber C.] Kimball and myself were sleeping and desired us to lay our hands on him and rebuke the evil spirit. I arose upon the bed and Brother Kimball got upon the floor and I sat upon the bed. We laid our hands on him and Brother Kimball rebuked and prayed for him but just before he had finished his prayer, his voice faltered and his mouth was shut and he began to tremble and reel to and fro and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I immediately seized him by the shoulder and lifted him up, being satisfied that the devils were exceeding angry because we attempted to cast them out of Brother Russel and they made a powerful attempt upon Elder Kimball as if to dispatch him at once. They struck him senseless and he fell to the floor. Brother Russel and myself then laid our hands on Elder Kimball and rebuked the evil spirits, in the name of Jesus Christ, and immediately he recovered his strength in part so as to get up. The sweat began to roll from him most powerfully and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the water. We could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and foam out their shame. Brother Kimball was quite weak for a day or two after. It seems that the devils are determined to destroy us...
Source: Mormon missionary history
A Mormon at another Web site (LDS Discovering Britain) said he tried to "take different accounts and jigsaw them together in chronological order."
Heber C. Kimball recalled:
“Sunday, July 30th, about daybreak, Elder Isaac Russell….came up to the third story, where Elder Hyde and myself were sleeping, and called out, ‘Brother Kimball, I want you should get up and pray for me that I may be delivered from the evil spirits that are tormenting me to such a degree that I feel I cannot live long, unless I obtain relief.”
“I had been sleeping on the back of the bed. I immediately arose, slipped off at the foot of the bed, and passed around to where he was. Elder Hyde threw his feet out, and sat up in the bed, and we laid hands on him, I being mouth, and prayed that the Lord would have mercy on him, and rebuked the devil. While thus engaged, I was struck with great force by some invisible power, and fell senseless on the floor. (Whitney p. 129-131)
Orson Hyde observed this same moment in his account:
“his [Heber's] voice faltered, and his mouth was shut, and he began to tremble and reel to and fro, and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I immediately seized him by the shoulder, and lifted him up, being satisfied that the devils were exceedingly angry because we attempted to cast them out of Br. Russell, and they made a powerful attempt upon elder Kimball as if to dispatch him at once, they struck him senseless and he fell to the floor… (Elder's p. 4)
Heber continued...
The first thing I recollected was being supported by Elders Hyde and Richards, who were praying for me; Elder Richards having followed Russell up to my room. Elder Hyde and Richards then assisted me to get on the bed, but my agony was so great I could not endure it, and I arose, bowed my knees and prayed. I then arose and sat up on the bed, when a vision was opened to our minds, and we could distinctly see the evil spirits, who foamed and gnashed their teeth at us. (Whitney p. 130-131)
Years later (1856) Heber told a congregation in the Salt Lake Tabernacle,
“I saw their hands, their eyes, and every feature of their faces, the hair on their heads, and their ears, in short they had full formed bodies.“ (Journal of Discourses Vol. 3 mar 2, 1856, p. 229)
Heber's account continued:
We gazed upon them about an hour and a half (by Willard’s watch). We were not looking towards the window, but towards the wall. Space appeared before us, and we saw the devils coming in legions, with their leaders, who came within a few feet of us. They came towards us like armies rushing to battle They appeared to be men of full stature, possessing every form and feature of men in the flesh, who were angry and desperate; and I (Kimball) shall never forget the vindictive malignity depicted on their countenances as they looked me in the eye; and any attempt to paint the scene which then presented itself, or portray their malice and enmity, would be vain. I perspired exceedingly, my clothes becoming as wet as if I had been taken out of the river. I felt excessive pain, and was in the greatest distress for sometime. (Whitney p. 130-131)
ORSON: Immediately he [Heber] recovered his strength in part, so as to get up; the sweat began to roll from him most powerfully, and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the water,
(Elder’s p.4)
HEBER: We distinctly heard those spirits talk and express their wrath and hellish designs against us.
(Whitney p. 130-131)
ORSON: We could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and foam out their shame.”
(Elder’s p.4)
FIELDING: They could hear a sound from them, i.e the evil spirits, like the grating of teeth, quite plainly. (Fielding, p.22)
ORSON: …After you were overcome by them and had fallen, their awful rush upon me with knives, threats, imprecations, hellish grins, amply convinced me that they were no friends of mine. While you were apparently senseless and lifeless on the floor and upon the bed (after we had laid you there), I (Orson) stood between you (Heber) and the devils and fought them and contended with them face to face, until they began to diminish in number and to retreat from the room. The last imp that left turned around to me as he was going out and said, as if to apologize, and appease my determined opposition to them, ‘I never said anything against you!’ I replied to him thus: ‘It matters not me whether you have or have not; you are a liar from the beginning! In the name of Jesus Christ depart!’ He immediately left, and the room was clear. That closed the scene of devils for the time. (Whitney 131)
FIELDING: They however kept their distances, but turned their heads toward Bro. Hyde; one looking at him said distinctly, but with a murmuring tone, slowly demure, I never spoke against you. He said there seemed to be legion of them. He was alarmed, but very much disgusted. He could scarcely bear to speak of them. (Fielding, p. 23)
Source: Compiled by Peter Fagg, Discovering LDS Britain Demon Possession Description
Original sources used by Fagg included:
Elder’s Journal, Letter 1 (1837), p.4 Quoted by Barron Howard. Orson Hyde: Missionary, Apostle, Colonizer. Horizon Publishers, Bountiful, Utah. 1978 p.95.
Fielding, Joseph. Joseph Fielding Diary. Courtesy of his descendants Keith & Ilene Foulger.
Kimball., Stanley, B. On the Potter's Wheel, Diary 1.
Journal of Discourses. Volume 3. Liverpool, 1856.
Whitney, Orson F. The Life of Heber C. Kimball. Bookcraft, Utah. 1945.
Let me close with what Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie thinks about such possessions: "That persons possessed by evil spirits are subjected to the severest mental and physical sufferings and to the basest sort of degredation [sic] -- all symbolical of the eternal torment to be imposed upon those who fall under Satan's control in the world to come" (McConkie, p. 311 Doctrinal NT Commentary, Vol. I: The Gospels Bookcraft )
And: "Evil spirits can completely transform a personal physically and mentally." (same source, p. 312)
I believe in ghosts.
But I prefer to call ‘em “demons”.
I think the Bible is clear that spirits have been active in the world time and again. Not the spirits of departed people, but good and evil spirits of a different order from ours, such as angels and demons. Christians do differ about how active these spirits are today (on dispensational grounds).
I wish I could see one. Or a UFO.
Same here, I have heard spirits and felt spirits but I have never seen one. I would have to see an apparition to truly believe. In other words, I’d like to get off this fence.
And what our response should be ...
Certainly, I believe in angels, fallen and otherwise, and suspect that some reports of "ghosts" fall into these categories. Certainly, Satan and his minions have their interests in the goings on of this earth and would manifest themselves when and where they felt it advantageous to do so. Similarly, we know from the Biblical record that God sends his angels as messengers and intercessionaries at certain times.
Another explanation that I find fairly plausible is that just as some people seem to have the gift of foresight and see events or signs of things to come before they occur, I suspect that some people, for whatever reason, might be able to see things regressively, after the fact. For example, a person on the Gettysburg Battlefield claims to see a Confederate soldier at Devil's den. What they are seeing isn't the result of a ghost being there in the present, but the present viewer glimpsing a person and event that were there in the past.
Similarly, if one subscribes to the multiverse extension of string theory, it might be plausible that there are folds and intersections in the fabric of reality where at times we may perceive intruders on our reality as something "unworldly", and one would have to suspect that those on the other side would perceive us in the same way.
I am reminded of the story about a large college psychology class where the professor was discussing the belief in ghosts. The professor asked for a show of hands...”How many of you believe in ghosts?” Most of the students raised their hands. The professor continued ...”How many of you believe you have seen a ghost?” A small number of hands went up. The professor then asked ..”How many of you believe you have talked to a ghost?” Just a few hands were raised. Finally the professor asked ...”Have any of you had sex with a ghost?” Way in the back of the large classroom Bubba reluctantly raised his hand. Surprised that anyone responded to that question the professor asked Bubba ..”Why don’t you come down in front and tell the class about your experience of having sex with a ghost. Bubba all red faced blubbered...”Ghost?..I thought you said goat.”
Turning off “Ghost Adventures” is easy to do, although I’m itchiing for a real ghost to show up sometime and give Zach a good kick in the pills. Also, you could stage a great drinking game by downing a swig everytime one of the cast members says “dude!”
LoL!
We are totally addicted to Ghost Adventures in part because it is pretty hilarious when they get really scared.
“Dude, what the **** was that!” “No ****** way!”
That, and they get some of the best stuff caught on tape.
That exactly what we have told our children. I am very protective of their minds and will not allow them to dabble in the occult through entertainment.
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