Posted on 04/03/2010 9:09:05 PM PDT by pissant
Somehow, the title should reflect the article. This title makes it seem as tho all Catholics prayed for the conversion of the Jews. We don't all do that, obviously, the ultra-conservative ones still do. They shouldn't, as the Pope has said to knock it off. All our missals Good Friday services address this point. They are very clear to remind us that Jesus, his family, his apostles, and most of his followers were Jews.
So, being just a regular Catholic, I object to the title, and I wonder why the JPost wants to keep stirring this carp up. (wish I could post my FB "I Support Israel" badge here, I picked the one of the IDF flag!)
That is at best an incomplete statement. Loss of salvation requires a conscious rejection of Christ. This requires a knowledge of Christ. The innocence of invincible ignorance mitigates this. Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.
All:
Here’s a point to consider:
We’re AMERICANS first.
I am a Catholic Christian who has dearly-loved Protestant Christian friends, dearly-loved Jewish Non-Christian friends, and I will ALWAYS defend the right of said friends and other Americans to believe what they believe as long as it is not violent or threatening to another. People DIED for this country to exist in this manner. Live and let live, remember that phrase? We believe different things faith-wise, but all have a common belief - We believe we have the absolute right to be left alone to live out our lives and pursue the destiny that God set before us.
And saying that, we are facing the WORST enemy this country has ever seen right now, within our own borders, an enemy dedicated to destroying the right of the Christian AND the Jew to worship, live, love, and pursue happiness as they see fit, as God meant for us to do. We either find our way back to God, or we don’t. It’s pretty simple. Christians believe it is through Jesus Christ, Jews don’t. Leave it at that and move on. What I believe as a Christian is irrelevant to what others believe for their own faiths; we are ALL just trying to exist another day on this rock until God calls us home. And THAT is the ONLY moment that matters in this debate.
Did “Christians kill Jews”? I wouldn’t call them Christians. I’d call them misguided evil fanatics deluded and blinded by other misguided evil fanatics - and wherever they are now, hopefully they are paying for those sins.
Did Jews Kill Christians? I wouldn’t call them Jews; I’d call them misguided evil fanatics deluded and blinded by other misguided evil fanatics, and wherever they are now, they are also paying for those sins.
A majority Christian army crossed the ocean in the millions to RESCUE Jews being slaughtered by madmen in the last century. And a majority Christian nation still protects and supports the state of Israel and its absolute right to exist against a multitude of ideological lunatics who have been trying to destroy it since its inception; in spite of the efforts of the current administration, I believe this support will continue because it is God’s plan for it to continue.
We have a common enemy; please stop bickering over the eternal. We can’t solve that. No one on this planet can. But we CAN solve the problems we face here and now. We have to. Because if THIS country goes away, there is NOWHERE for the Christian, the Jew, or ANYONE who wants to live free and be left alone. There’s NOWHERE left to run to. Divide and conquer is a wonderfully awful tactic, and it always works. Christians and Jews have something else in common: our backs are against the SAME wall.
I’m not a theologian, nor am I as well-versed in the Bible as I should be, but I was taught right and wrong, and I know the Ten Commandments. They are timeless, and still relevant to all of us - even to those who DON’T believe - if we expect to maintain a society with any sense of civility and continuity.
Happy Passover, and Happy Easter to all of you and your families. May God bless you all. My prayers are for all of you to find whatever purpose God sets before you.
Peace, all. One team, one fight.
Actually, to the extent the message of Jesus is spread out of true arrogance, such attempt to spread it will fail.
The only means that works is sort of like what you were suggesting.
A person spreading the message of Jesus is really saying (despite the words they may use) "here's what I believe...but you must examine the material and come to your own conclusion." "And ultimately such conclusion can only be reached in deep and prolonged prayer (asking God to open your mind and heart to the Truth)."
To everyone who believes in God (even if that person thinks he/she is a muslim)...ask your Creator to tell you the Truth about Jesus/Yeshua.
Ask God without reservation if He has a son and if His name is Jesus/Yeshua.
My experience is that He will most certainly answer you!
Most folks are afraid to sincerely make that prayer...afraid for how it will change their lives.
They are right to be afraid. It will not only change their lives, it will change their hearts, their souls, and their eternity!
But don't take my word for it...you must find out for yourself IMHO!
RFE,
“My point is that it is indeed the height of arrogance to throw someone your rope and tell them that is the only way to salvation. Let them be saved by the only One who matters, not by the myriad of false gods among men that are sure they have the “one true path” for all to follow.”
Thank you for your intelligent reply, among many which are not. No matter how kindly the intent, it IS arrogant to even offer a “rope” to someone who is happily practicing their peaceful religion—which just doesn’t happen to be yours. Those posters who doggedly insisted that eventually, Jews would come to see their “truth” are sadly deluded. For millennia, people have been trying to convert Jews, even at the point of a spear, gun, auto de fe—and relatively few converted. Most chose death over forced conversion, and many of the deaths of Jews who refused to convert were at the hands of various denominations of Christians, Catholics included. How anyone can take the life of someone who is peacefully living their life and practicing a religion which doesn’t happen to be yours, and then attempt to glorify it in the name of their religion, even calling it a prime directive of their religion, is beyond me. Wipe that smug look off your deluded faces, would-be evangelists, and tend to your own souls. History has shown that they are in far more need of improvement than the people you arrogantly hope to “convert”.
re: My point is that it is indeed the height of arrogance to throw someone your rope and tell them that is the only way to salvation. Let them be saved by the only One who matters, not by the myriad of false gods among men that are sure they have the “one true path” for all to follow.
But, if the one throwing the rope truely believed that the rope they were throwing is the one and only rope that could rescue - isn’t that more like “love” rather than arrogance in that one’s desire to rescue others?
Also, I say again, if Jesus is who he claimed to be, and he truly is the one and only way to God, then it is not arrogance - it is simply truth. Just as having the knowledge to know that 1 + 1 equals 2 does not make that person superior - just that that knowledge is just true.
If G-d indeed came as a man and provided the way for salvation to all men - and He did this in fullfillment of many, many Hebrew scriptures - then, to reject His offer of salvation - where can that person turn?
You are correct in saying that we need to check out the claims of all religions and determine the false gods from the true One. Jesus cannot be ignored - after scriptural and historical scrutiny he can be rejected or accepted, but not brushed aside as of no concern.
nice...agreed
“But, if the one throwing the rope truely believed that the rope they were throwing is the one and only rope that could rescue - isn’t that more like “love” rather than arrogance in that one’s desire to rescue others?”
Salvation - “rope” is not for man to offer. One can describe what the rope looks like so when they see it they will grab on, but to place oneself between any other man and salvation is the height of arrogance.
“You are correct in saying that we need to check out the claims of all religions and determine the false gods from the true One”
Maybe so, but I was referring to the men with rope claiming to offer others Salvation that only God can offer. They are the aforementioned little false gods.
According to Menachem Wecker here: here:
"Orthodox Jews, both in Israel and throughout the world, recite the prayer Aleynu (“Upon Us”) three times a day thanking God for distinguishing them from non-Jews, including Christians, who “pray to a God who doesn’t help.” The Orthodox version of the Passover Hagaddah, which has been variously edited by Conservative and Reform Jews, petitions God to “Pour out your anger toward the gentiles who do not know you” and “chase them with rage and destroy them.”
Nobody is suggesting otherwise. I have heard no one on this thread advocate forcing anyone one to believe anything. This thread was initiated by Christians publicly praying for the conversion of the Jews. This hurts no one. If anyone truly believes in the Jesus of the Bible they are commanded to do this. Jesus said he was the only way, that NO ONE comes to the Father but through him. Thus, either Jesus was lying or mad and therefore not a way to heaven at all or he is the only way. There is no third choice. I believe him with all my heart. Thus, for me not to evangelize all non-Christians, including Jews, would be the hight of cruelty. If anyone rejects the message, Jesus said to shake their dust off your shoes and move on to the next unbeliever. I have every right to pray for and witness to anyone my conscience tells me too. In public and in private. I do it out of love.
Does this create animosity? Apparently it does. Jesus said it would. "I came not to bring peace but the sword." Jesus said preaching his message would separate families and peoples. "If they hated me they will hate you also for my name." But there is also a blessing, "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
Therefore, Jesus' command is clear and I intend to follow it. I will continue to evangelize and seek to convert any who will listen. Anyone who would not do so just to maintain the personal comfort which lack of social conflict brings needs to "test yourself to see if you are really in the faith - examine yourselves!"
He is risen indeed!
In fact, we pray for the conversion of the whole world.
You'll just have to live with it.
Applause, Applause! Very nice post! Happy Easter to you also.
“And more Christians by percentage and total numbers voted for the Kenyan imposter than jinos did.”
As far as percentages are concerned, your statement is unfortunately incorrect.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3618408,00.html
I didn’t mean he spoke only for himself but that he didn’t speak for everybody.
There’s a difference between the realm of the dead and the realm of the damned.
Sheol isn’t the same thing as Hell.
pissant, I should have known it was you. Mods can we get this moved to religion?
You wrote:
“We’re AMERICANS first.”
I’m Catholic first.
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Why? Should we not love them enough to pray for their conversion?
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