Posted on 04/03/2010 9:09:05 PM PDT by pissant
Speak for yourself.
I guess you think it not worthwhile to convert non Christians?
Ummm, ok... do you also pray for the conversion of the Hindus? Buddhists? Muslims?
If not, why not? Seems only fair to want all non-Christians to become believers, not just Jews; maybe I'm missing something. I wonder why only the Jews are mentioned in the prayer.
Understand, I'm not arguing or criticizing, I'm just a bit confused and would appreciate clarification of your comment.
A Jew converting to Christianity would have to agree that his beloved ancestors are in hell but that he or she hopes to do better. Such a person would obviously not be worthy of salvation. Until Christian doctrine on salvation only by faith in Jesus changes, this impediment is insuperable.
I now use an Angelus Missal (SSPX). And it says “For the Conversion of the Jews” as the title for the prayer. Oh, well. It’s copyright is 2004. I don’t think this has the updated prayer. No loss.
As we do.
Take that up with God, in the meantime, we’ll continue to pray for Jews and others to find salvation through Christ the King.
I’m a Jew who is not interested in being converted.
Ummm, ok... do you also pray for the conversion of the Hindus? Buddhists? Muslims?
Yup. We not only pray, we evangelize.
You wrote:
“Ummm, ok... do you also pray for the conversion of the Hindus? Buddhists? Muslims?”
Yes. Page 552 right after the Jews: “For Conversion of Unbelievers”. Before Jews we pray “For Schismatics and Heretics”.
“maybe I’m missing something.”
Yes, you are.
“I wonder why only the Jews are mentioned in the prayer.”
Because it’s for them. Other prayers are said for others. It’s not difficult to understand. Outside of the baptized the Jews come first. That is as it should be.
With good fortune, someday that may change.
Good for you.
That fact, however, has nothing to do with the obligation of religious believers to pray for you - you're not their religious guide or leader.
You wrote:
“A Jew converting to Christianity would have to agree that his beloved ancestors are in hell but that he or she hopes to do better.”
Uh, no.
“Such a person would obviously not be worthy of salvation.”
Anyone who comes to Christ can be made worthy by Him.
“Until Christian doctrine on salvation only by faith in Jesus changes, this impediment is insuperable.”
We don’t believe in sola fide. We do believe in the necessity of faith in Christ, but we don’t (and we can’t and wouldn’t) condemn to hell those who knew no better through no fault of their own.
Thank you for that excellent explication. I understand.
And people here wonder why Jews are suspicious of evangelicals’ support for Israel.
Many Jews become Christians. I know preachers who are former Jews.
Orthodox Jews say prayers against gentiles.
Perhaps both should stop, but if we think our faith is true and good, it is ok, IMHO, to pray that others find it.
I actually have relatives of each of those faiths with the exception of Buddhist (AFAIK). I do pray for their conversions.
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