New astrophysical discoveries leave little to no room for Atheism, expert says

CNA ^ | 9/30/2009

[markomalley]

Denver, Colo., Sep 30, 2009 / 03:35 pm (CNA).- Contemporary astrophysics hold the scientific key to prove the existence of God, but unfortunately very few know the scientific facts, said Fr. Robert J. Spitzer, S.J, PhD, during a conference delivered on Sunday at the John Paul II Center for the New Evangelization in Denver, Colorado.

The Honolulu-born Jesuit is the past president of Gonzaga University and is also well-known philosopher and physicist who is involved in bringing science and theology together.

Fr. Spitzer is currently engaged in an ambitious project to explain the metaphysical consequences of the latest astrophysical discoveries, mainly, the existence of a Creator.

The conference in Denver was sponsored by John and Carol Saeman as well as the California Catholic philanthropist Timothy Busch.

“The arguments of Fr. Spitzer are addressed to every honest human being who is trying to reach to God through science,” said Mr. Busch, during the introduction.

“Atheism and pop culture have had a significant impact on Theism and it has to be confronted especially because Secularism and the negation of God are becoming pervasive,” began the 57 year-old priest.

“Theism, in fact, can be better explained by contemporary science and modern philosophy better than ever before, but particularly interesting is what is happening in the field of astrophysics ... to the point that I can't imagine why agnosticism and Atheism are still popular,” Fr. Spitzer said.

“That is why we need contemporary ‘translators’ that are capable of bringing today's science to regular people, and especially, to bring the astrophysical response to atheism,” he added.

Fr. Spitzer explained that, since science is based on a empirical model, it can change at any time. Nevertheless, as science develops and the so called “Big Bang” theory of the origin and existence of the universe becomes more refined, “it becomes less and less possible for other explanations (of the universe) to be scientifically viable.”

The theory, developed by the Belgian Catholic priest and astronomer Georges Lemaître, proposes that the Universe has expanded from a primordial dense initial condition at some time in the past (currently estimated to have been approximately 13.7 billion years ago), and continues to expand to this day.

The model, according to Fr. Spitzer, has been revised, refined and scientifically established to a point that any other theory of the origin and existence of the universe has become harder and harder to defend.

Fr. Spitzer explained that, what we know from the most recent scientific evidence is that “the universe is not the universe of Mr. Newton anymore, it is not infinite, it is finite, it started at some point, and is in constant expansion.”

He then explained the complexity of the universe, saying it is based on “an incredibly delicate balance of 17 cosmological constants. If any of them would be off by one part of a tenth at a forty potency, we would be dead and the universe would not be what it is.”

“Every single Big Bang model shows the existence of what scientists call a ‘singularity,’ and the existence of each singularity demands the existence of an external ‘element’ to the universe,” Fr. Spitzer said.

The priest physicist then proceeded to explain the different, complex versions of the various Bing Bang theories.

He quoted Roger Penrose, the world-famous English mathematician and physicist, who corrected some of the theories of his friend and colleague Stephen Hawkins to conclude that every Big Bang theory, including the one known as Quantum theory, confirms the existence of singularities. Therefore, said Spitzer, the need to find an explanation to the universe’s existence drives us to seek “a force that is previous and independent from the universe.”

Fr. Spitzer also quoted the 2003 experiments by three leading cosmologists, Arvin Borde, Alan Guth, and Alexander Vilenkin, who were able to prove that any universe which has, on average, been expanding throughout its history cannot be infinite in the past but must have a past space-time boundary.

“The concept at this point is clear: nothing is nothing, and from nothing, nothing comes, since nothing is... nothing!” Fr. Spitzer said, to explain the fact that contemporary astrophysics demands “something with sufficient power to bring the universe into existence.”

“It sounds like a theological argument, but is really a scientific conclusion.

“There is no way to ignore the fact that it demands the existence of a singularity and therefore of a Creator outside space and time,” he added.

According to Fr. Spitzer, “this theory has become so scientifically solid, that 50% of astrophysicists are “coming out of the closet” an accepting a metaphysical conclusion: the need of a Creator.”

The Jesuit priest explained that this theory is not what is currently known as “Intelligent Design.”

“Intelligent Design is a biological theory, this is an anthropic universe theory, based on the question: Can our universe sustain forms of life no matter what, without any external energy?”

According to Fr. Spitzer, Professor Penrose “has provided a mathematical model in which the possibilities of a universe that would not be gobbled without the existence of a Creator are simply improvable, to a point of mathematical impossibility.”

“What can we conclude of this? First that the Creator is really smart... and second that it must be a loving one, because He could choose so many more violent and chaotic alternatives, that it really has to make you wonder.”

Fr. Spitzer explained to CNA that “all this information must be conveyed in a simple manner to our seminarians, our college and high school students, who are mostly ignorant of the powerful Theistic message of today’s astrophysics.”

The Jesuit physicist, with the help of some Catholic philanthropists, is working on a project to create a 90-minute curriculum, divided into three 30-minute segments, that will offer the astrophysics-based response to atheism. “It will be a high quality production that will involve 12 physicists, as well as dynamic and engaging graphics,” he explained.

“The idea,” he told CNA, “is to make not only DVDs that can be distributed to all Catholic high schools or Newman centers around the U.S., but to make it available for free via the Internet.”

Fr. Spitzer is working in another three more 90-minute curricula: “The historical evidence of Jesus,” “Suffering and the love of God” and “Contemporary philosophical responses to Atheism.”

[markomalley]

This is all well and good, but I wonder what he thinks about membrane theory (which attempts, using 11-dimensional mathematics, to explain what happened before this singularity -- essentially promoting the idea of multiple universes sharing multidimensional space).

[brytlea]

Ping to read tomorrow.

[fhayek]

This is all well and good, but if you REALLY want to see evidence for the existence of God, check out the Mandelbrot Set.

[JRandomFreeper]

idea of multiple universes sharing multidimensional space

That would explain those mornings when I wake up in a whole different world.

/johnny

[Psycho_Bunny]

.....unless the Universe is closed-collapsed....in which case the Big Bang may have been one of an infinite number.

Although, I tend to believe in a Prime Mover, of some sort.

[Soothesayer9]

I think one could sufficiently write up a convincing dissertation (or thesis) proving that God withholds certain elements of “common sense” from those in the upper echelon of science (such as the above)..and grants it to the poor.

[massmike]

read later

[Licensed-To-Carry]

Just a note to all you heathens/pagans.

"John 14:6"

That's all you need to know.

[Talisker]

“Every single Big Bang model shows the existence of what scientists call a ‘singularity,’ ... The priest physicist then proceeded to explain the different, complex versions of the various Bing Bang theories.

The Big Bang Never Happened.

[LearsFool]

The apostle Paul did something along those lines in Romans 1.

“Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools...”

[M Kehoe]

Think about this, all you atheists reading this post.

If I am wrong about G-d, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and His Son, Jesus the Christ, what do I lose?

But, if I'm right...

5.56mm

[EAGLE7]

bump

[editor-surveyor]

Is a little knowledge a dangerous thing?

[markomalley]

Nothing like Pascal’s Wager, huh?

[Verginius Rufus]

I’m guessing that Fr. Robert Spitzer is not a close relative of Eliot Spitzer.

[edh]

“If I am wrong about G-d, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and His Son, Jesus the Christ, what do I lose?”

Isn’t this called Pascal’s Wager?

[markomalley]

Don’t know if this is appropriate to ping your lists or not, but consider yourselves pinged...

[JRandomFreeper]

I know which way I place my bets. Pascal's Theorem is a pretty good idea.

/johnny

[Texan Tory]

“This is all well and good, but if you REALLY want to see evidence for the existence of God, check out the Mandelbrot Set.”

Please explain; I am not questioning you on this to be critical, I honestly want to know your explanation for how this provides evidence of God. I looked into the Mandelbrot Set, and it seems fascinating, but somehow I missed out on whatever evidence you saw for God.

[Candor7]

A singularity does not necessarily imply that there is a God.

What the singularity does imply is a nexus to another dimension of space time.

Whether “God” is there or not, can only be proven by accessing that gateway ( which some say we do upon death.)

This is an interesting aspect of science, but a singulariity to another dimension could just as easily connect to hell as well as heaven, so we have to be very careful about what we assume.

We know little about singularities. In fact some scientists believe that micro-singularities might temporarily exist throughout our own universe and even on the Earth itself.

[parsifal]

“We know little about singularities. In fact some scientists believe that micro-singularities might temporarily exist throughout our own universe and even on the Earth itself.”

Of course they do. We call them “women.”

parsy, who says think about it

[Candor7]

According to certain Buddhist tantra about dakinis, you are absolutely correct:

http://vajrayogini.com/Books_&_Media/Vajrayogini_Books/Vajrayogini_Sadhana_and_Commentary/

[narses]

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Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

[American Constitutionalist]

" I think one could sufficiently write up a convincing dissertation (or thesis) proving that God withholds certain elements of “common sense” from those in the upper echelon of science (such as the above)..and grants it to the poor. " ( For it is written, so shall it be done )

For the natural man ( heathen, worldly , un saved ) can not understand, comprehend, perceive nor can ever perceive or understand the things of the spirit of God for they are contrary to his thinking and understanding.
It is only then, once a un regenerate man becomes " BORN AGAIN " of the spirit, and being filled with the spirit of God can he only then understand the things of the spirit of God.

I Corinthians chapter 1 : verses 18 - 31

18. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

20. Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar?
Where is the philosopher of this age?
Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

21. For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
22. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
23. but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
24. but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

26. Brothers, think of what you were when you were called.
Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth.
27. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
29. so that no one may boast before him.
30. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
31. Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."



(King James Version)
1 Corinthians 2

1. And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5. That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8. Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

[rdl6989]

Amen.

[Aggie Mama]

Okay. I looked that up just now. Is there anyway you can explain it to me in simple terms? Even the Wikipedia version was too complicated for me!

[Habibi]

What is there about these theologian/pseudo-scientist that compels them to ignore faith in explaining the supernatural? They think nothing of treading in areas where they are clearly unqualified. Not that cosmology is “settled science”. It’s just that there are real scientists that are far more qualified than the folks trying to wear two hats at the same time.

[American Constitutionalist]

" We know little about singularities. In fact some scientists believe that micro-singularities might temporarily exist throughout our own universe and even on the Earth itself. "


Biblical connections to Heaven.


Genesis chapter 28 : verses 11-12

11. And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.

12. And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.


John chapter 1 : verses 47-51

47. Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!

48. Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.

49. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

50. Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.

51. And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

(King James Version)

John 5

1. After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

2. Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.

3. In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.

4. For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.

5. And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.


John 14 : verse 6
Jesus saith unto him " I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. "

[boatbums]

Thank you. Nothing touches my heart more than the Word of God.

[Candor7]

Thanks for the review.

[CTrent1564]

American Constitutionalist:

You are quoting scripture to and audience [secular humanist] that does not want to hear it. Fr. Spitzer is coming from a cosmological perspective to get to the existence of God and doing it in a way that challenges “secular humanistic moral relativistic culture”, and thus his arguments are not aimed for those who already believe in God, rather, it is a way to make the rationalistic atheist come to the conclusion that science itself, which is also part of God’s creation points back to the Creator himself, for as Pope John Paul II, of blessed memory, stated, Truth can’t contradict Truth.

Thus, Science itself and creation reveals the great creative power of God and thus scientific truths and theological truths are not competing philosophies as they all come from God, who as the Nicene Creed states, “I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heavan and Earth and all things seen and unseen”

regards

[American Constitutionalist]

[American Constitutionalist]

" You are quoting scripture to and audience [secular humanist] that does not want to hear it. "

Understood, and your point taken...

However ? .... " Do not want to hear it " ... is at the " HEART " of the matter ....
Those scriptures explain why that the things of God can not be understood by the natural man ( humanistic, un saved )
because they have to be seen by the Holy Spirit of God , and spiritually discerned by the Holy Spirit of God.

Once again, it's a matter of the heart.

[annalex]

God is triune and the empirical evidence points to the Triune God. The evidence of the creaton points to the Creator, the evidence of the Gospel points to the Son, and the evidence of the Church Militant 2,000 years later points to the Holy Spirit in our midst.

Neither of these three has a materialistic explanation.

[onedoug]

Roger Penrose, "The Road To Reality: A Complete Guide To The Physical Universe"

'Pretty good at elucidating some of the basics of higher math.

[r9etb]

A very interesting topic. Alas, I would much rather have a transcript of the talk, than this rather poorly-written summary of it....

[r9etb]

A poorly-written article, but the topic is interesting.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[GL of Sector 2814]

You've simply restated Pascal's Wager. Please see these refutations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager#Criticisms

[CTrent1564]

annalex and American Constitutionalist:

Good thread and good posts by both of you. I am in total agreement with the orthodox Catholic teaching on the Holy Trinity. I was only quoting an excerpt from the Nicene Creed to make a point, i.e. that secular atheist, whose sole creed is based on rationalism and empiricism are confronted with evidence that points to a Creator, then perhaps their minds and thus hopefull their hearts will be open to the Christianity and faith in the Holy Trinity.

So Fr. Spitzer who is a very orthodox Jesuit and an excellent academic [he has a Ph.D. in Physics, I think, along with Cosmology] and scholar is the type of Catholic Priest who has the ability to confront secular humanism on scientific grounds and thus open them up to the reality of God and then hopefully that will lead to faith in Christ and of course as a Catholic, I hope into full communion with the Catholic Church.

Regards

[NYer]

Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list

[numberonepal]

This is all well and good, but if you REALLY want to see evidence for the existence of God, check out the Mandelbrot Set.

Or any fractal set for that matter. Universal constants (especially e and c) peak my curiosity. The fact that the full moon and the sun are exactly the same size in the sky is something a lot of folks can get their noodle around too.

[onedoug]

I’m not sure God would like all this betting about.

[fhayek]

The Mandelbrot Set is located on the complex plane. That is simply a two dimensional graph with real numbers on one axis, and imaginary number on the other. (Imaginary numbers, you may remember from algebra are multiples of the square root of -1). In effect, this graph represents all of " God's numbers). By using a very simple formula which uses iteration (the answer is plugged back into the formula, the result is either bounded and therefore belongs to the set or it spirals off to infinity. The rate at which the result spirals to infinity will cause it to be assigned an arbitrary color. By plotting the results, you produce a geometric figure, a fractal, in fact. If you magnify the edge of the figure, you will always find new and unusual complications. The boundary of figure is, in fact, infinite. You could never measure it. Go to Youtube and type in "Mandelbrot Set". There are dozens of "magnifications" that will take you on a spectacular "journey" deeper into the set. You could never explore it all. You will even come across mini Mandelbrot sets embedded all over the place.

Not to wax too metaphysical, but this geometric figure has always existed. Its structure, its properties, have been around for billions of years waiting for us to discover it. I took the confluence of technology and mathematical insight to find it. To me, this was one of God's "Easter Eggs" planted for us to find. Plus it goes great with Pink Floyd music.

[tacticalogic]

That's all you need to know.

So far, everytime someone has told me that it's turned out that there was actually a lot more to it that they'd rather I didn't know about.

[M Kehoe]

You've simply restated Pascal's Wager.

Correct. The simplicity lies in the logical statement: It is, or it isn't. On or off. Binary mathematics. There are no refutations.

Thanks for playing.

5.56mm

[Bellflower]

ping

[Bellflower]

Interesting site. TY

[Brugmansian]

The (Big Bang) theory, developed by the Belgian Catholic priest and astronomer Georges Lemaître . . .

Lemaître said psychology, not astrophysics, is where he saw evidence of God.

[rae4palin]

Amen. The existence of God is self-evident & obvious.