And just what are the sacrifices that they are asked to make - beyond living as chaste Christians as we all are?
Lamh Foistenach Abu!
Posted on 07/13/2009 5:38:36 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Episcopalians overwhelmingly favor tossing a previously approved resolution that bans ordaining openly gay bishops.
In discussions that began Thursday afternoon and continued Friday morning during The Episcopal Church's triennial General Convention, Episcopalians spoke frankly, testifying passionately either for throwing out the ban or against rescinding it.
"Gays and lesbians are asked to make sacrifices the rest of us are not asked to make," said the Rev. J. Frederick Barber of Fort Worth, according to the Episcopal News Service.
Debate centered on resolution B033, which was approved by the General Convention in 2006. It calls for restraint in ordaining bishops "whose manner of life presents a challenge to the wider church," mainly noncelibate homosexuals. It was passed amid calls by Anglican bishops overseas who were outraged after The Episcopal Church – the U.S. arm of Anglicanism – consecrated its first openly gay bishop, V. Gene Robinson, in 2003.
Archbishop of Canterbury Dr. Rowan Williams, the spiritual leader of the global Anglican Communion, addressed the General Convention on Thursday, cautioning against making decisions that could "push us further apart."
But on Friday, some Episcopal leaders pondered whether "sacrificing" gays and lesbians is worth securing unity with the rest of the global communion.
"Will we continue to sacrifice a portion of God's people for a false sense of security with those who don't want to be with us?" the Rev. Liz Zavanov of Hawaii posed, as reported by the denomination's news service.
The majority of Episcopalians who were randomly selected to speak on the resolution rejected B033. Few asked to preserve the resolution.
With relationships with the rest of the Anglican Communion still fragile, the Rev. Dan Martins of Northern Indiana said keeping B033 intact is necessary.
The Rev. Charles Holt of Central Florida argued, "We are damaging the body of Christ by insisting on our own way. This is not a faithful witness of the Gospel."
The few speaking in support of B033 may be reflective of the smaller number of conservative Episcopalians present at this year's General Convention.
According to the Rev. J. Philip Ashey, Chief Operation Officer of the conservative American Anglican Council, says the number of orthodox "willing to stand against the tide of TEC's agenda is vastly reduced from previous conventions."
"With such a numerically diminished opposition, TEC leaders have a free hand to draft and pass virtually any legislation they like," Ashey said, reporting from the convention in Anaheim, Calif.
In addition to resolutions asking for the repeal of B033, the General Convention is considering proposals that would allow blessings of gay and lesbian unions in states where same-sex marriage or civil unions are legal.
Those in favor of blessing same-sex unions argued on Wednesday that it's a matter of simple justice and equality.
But others said it's not that simple.
If it were a matter of simple justice, it would be a "no-brainer," Sue Carmichael, a deputy of the committee on Social and Urban Affairs – which is considering the resolution – said.
"I just can't discount the Bible," she added, noting the struggle that many Episcopalians have with passages in the Bible that oppose homosexuality, as reported by the Episcopal News Service.
The General Convention opened on Wednesday and will conclude July 17.
This isn’t surprising. After all, this is the “Episcopalian Church” AFTER most of the actual Christians have left.
Church attendance must be down....
Stick a fork in the PECUSA.
Lamh Foistenach Abu!
Maybe the headline should read; “majority of Episcopalians think the Bible is a bunch of huey”.
When do unabashed polygamists, pedophiles and zoophiles get to be ordained? If it’s all about “equality...”
Well, not quite. PECUSA will emerge as the American Christians movement which, like the “German Christians,” will provide cover for the tyrants’ crackdown on genuine Christians. The Kmiec-Catholics and the PECUSA “True American Christians” will be employed to stifle anyone who says that the government is persecuting Christians for their faith. The “American Christians” leaders will piously intone that all those “extremist fake Christianists” would need to do to avoid being persecuted would be to trim their sails just a tad and go along to get along. But since they refuse, they deserve whatever they get.
The Clueless sometimes ask me: “Why in the world did you leave the Episcopal Church?” Why indeed?
I guess this puts me in the minority then.
ping
Then they are for scrapping the Bible.
I guess they forgot about that little problem the Catholic church had.........
I seriously doubt a "Majority" of the remaining members approve of this nonsense, any more than they approve of homosexual "weddings" and sodomite "priests."
Come autumn, the combined attendance of the thousands of parishes in the entire Episcopalian Church in America on any given Sunday will be equalled or exceeded by the number of people in stadium seats watching 16 NFL football games..
No joke.
Misleading headline. The “majority” is among the deputies to General Convention, who are carefully selected because they are pro-gay. (The ‘elections’ in dioceses and many parishes are a complete sham — they would make ACORN blush.) The anti-Christian Communists who took over The Episcopal Church do not represent the views of those in the pews. This was never a popular issue except in some wise-acre parishes over-run with homosexuals. The conversion of a once-Christian church to a pro-gay Communist-front political lobby is driving away the Christians, slowly be surely.
BS headline. This is just among convention delegates who do not represent the folks in the pews. That is exactly why the Episcopal church in the US is now split and we have an Anglican church in the US. Conservative Episcopalians need to consider turning to the Catholic Church. It is time to come home.
“Gays and lesbians are asked to make sacrifices the rest of us are not asked to make,” said the Rev. J. Frederick Barber of Fort Worth
Nonsense.
They have made choices in their life that have consequences.
Just like a person that choses to use drugs or a person that choses to murder someone or a person that choses to be unfaithful to their spouse.
They are called SINS.They do have consequences.
This is just one more religion that is pandering to the world instead of glorifying the Kingdom
That durn Bible. Always gets in the way.
The urban churches have complete control, as I understand, and do what urban people do - become lefties. The Episcopal church leadership has been taken over by these socialists just as universities and the government have. The Episcopal church demonstrates the great success of the social revolution of the 60’s-70’s, IMHO.
I think the man had a handle on the situation when he stated;
if it offends you, cut it off.
Majority of Epicopalians, or majority of Episcopalian conference representatives? The article only talks about conference attendees, not of any larger survey.
Thanks to kalee for the ping.
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.
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Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15
The Episcopal Church is a Full Communion Partner of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America; hence these deliberations and decisions will likely become weighty arguments at the ELCA Churchwide Assembly in August in Minneapolis.
"Following the example of our Full Communion partner" will hold more gravitas than following the example of global Christianity as there is no international Lutheran structure parallel to the Anglican Communion.
Kyrie Eleison.
The article doesn’t state how the pollsters choose the members, to poll. It doesn’t state how many people they polled. I would be surprised if the majority of Episcopalians favor disobeying the Bible.
Sadly, this has been the case for a long time in the ECUSA. A majority of Episcopalians hold to the belief that the Bible is open for wide interpretation; there is no literal requirement to believe Scripture is a black or white issue. Most, however, do believe that sin is a black or white issue with God with no sin being greater than another...IOW telling a lie is as bad as murder in the opinion of God; lustful thoughts as bad as actual adultery.
Personally, I don't particularly care if the person sitting in the pew next to me is gay or straight but I do care that they make their sin apparent. It is as if, I a sinner who has committed, lets say adultery, got up and announced it to the congregation and expected applause because of my being a church leader and proud of my sins. Don't ask, don't tell is working in the military and it can work in church as well. Confession needs to be made to God and gay people should remain in their closets even when wearing clerical collars.
I suspect a preponderance of Episcopalians don't know what is going on. They attend small churches, many with part time, retired clergy, and faithfully attend the Lord's business there in their sphere. I'll bet many don't know they don't own the church they or their forefathers built.
They fully understand that the media will never come after their homosexual predator priests (and there are plenty of them) because the media agrees with their lukewarm, liberal, socially conscious message.
They are immune.
It is very sad.
The Clueless sometimes ask me: “Why in the world did you leave the Episcopal Church?”
Because it is “in the world” in the worst possible sense. That’s why I left.
It's gone on too long and has gone too far for anyone to honestly plead ignorance at this point.
talking to one each day, a small parish vestryman didn't realize the General Convention was in session and, I believe, is in a state of denial. - good guy, strong churchman, active in Cursillo, but seems to think it will all go away.
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